Heaven and Hell

[Juanita]

Biblically speaking, but it's highly doubtful, according to Scripture, that you ever were a Christian in the first place. Had you been, you would have been born-again and received the Holy Spirit, which is a profound experience. At that point, you would have known it was real and it's doubtful you would have ever left the faith.

I don't want to laugh, but you make it really hard.....:lamo. The supposed Born Agains are the worst and the most hypocritical of all.. One has to almost pity them for their blindness and false beliefs......

 

[Master PO]

I don't want to laugh, but you make it really hard.....:lamo. The supposed Born Agains are the worst and the most hypocritical of all.. One has to almost pity them for their blindness and false beliefs......

i have seen people who are born -again become zealots, and even go to the point, of selling everything they have, or sins they now believe, but this does not apply to everyone, being christian, still many people act in different ways.

 

[Juanita]

i have seen people who are born -again become zealots, and even go to the point, of selling everything they have, or sins they now believe, but this does not apply to everyone, being christian, still many people act in different ways.

Most fundamentalists seem to be zealots these days...They take the words in the bible literally even when it contradicts itself and says two different things...strange indeed...

 

[Logicman]

I don't want to laugh, but you make it really hard.....:lamo. The supposed Born Agains are the worst and the most hypocritical of all.. One has to almost pity them for their blindness and false beliefs......

Nonsense, though there are some. Many of the others are in run-down 3rd world countries building schools, setting up water irrigation systems, building hospitals, and all that goes along with that.

Still others are building homeless shelters for down-and-out atheists.

By the way, here's an article which exposes the hypocrisy of humanists.

Humanists Are Hypocrites

 

[Juanita]

Nonsense, though there are some. Many of the others are in run-down 3rd world countries building schools, setting up water irrigation systems, building hospitals, and all that goes along with that.

Still others are building homeless shelters for down-and-out atheists.

By the way, here's an article which exposes the hypocrisy of humanists.

Humanists Are Hypocrites

I don't know anything about Humanists so why would I care? I know a lot of Bahai's and Mormons that go overseas as well as Christians, so what is your point?

 

[Logicman]

I don't know anything about Humanists so why would I care? I know a lot of Bahai's and Mormons that go overseas as well as Christians, so what is your point?

The point is that your across-the-board, broad-brushed painting of born-again believers as hypocrites is unwarranted. Like I said, many are in run-down 3rd world countries building schools, setting up water irrigation systems, building hospitals, and all that goes along with that. Still others are building homeless shelters for down-and-out atheists.

 

[Juanita]

The point is that your across-the-board, broad-brushed painting of born-again believers as hypocrites is unwarranted. Like I said, many are in run-down 3rd world countries building schools, setting up water irrigation systems, building hospitals, and all that goes along with that. Still others are building homeless shelters for down-and-out atheists.

.....and some are in African countries preaching against gays and helping some of these governments write anti gay laws, including execution.....

 

[ecofarm]

.....and some are in African countries preaching against gays and helping some of these governments write anti gay laws, including execution.....

Plenty of non-religious people do that.

 

[Juanita]

Plenty of non-religious people do that.

we are talking about all the good things that Christians do.. I just listed another one... Why would nonreligious people want gays executed? Why would they care...?

 

[ecofarm]

we are talking about all the good things that Christians do.. I just listed another one... Why would nonreligious people want gays executed? Why would they care...?

There are plenty of non-religious homophobes.

 

[Juanita]

There are plenty of non-religious homophobes.

But do they have the ear of African Presidents?

 

[Logicman]

.....and some are in African countries preaching against gays and helping some of these governments write anti gay laws, including execution.....

Gay sexual relations are a sin. So is fornication, adultery, etc. But nowhere in the New Covenant are Christians commanded to stone or kill anyone. So you can't diss Christianity because some people violate its precepts anymore than you can paint all gays as murderers just because some have committed the offense. You'll need a better argument than that.

 

[ecofarm]

But do they have the ear of African Presidents?

Yes, of course. There are plenty of gangsters, politicians and scumbags of various sort that are homophobes.

 

[head of joaquin]

Gay sexual relations are a sin. So is fornication, adultery, etc. But nowhere in the New Covenant are Christians commanded to stone or kill anyone. So you can't diss Christianity because some people violate its precepts anymore than you can paint all gays as murderers just because some have committed the offense. You'll need a better argument than that.

This is disingenuous. Fundies focus on gay sex endlessly, almost like a fetish. Yet fundies never say a word about greed or materialism or mistreatment of the poor, which is roundly condemned by Jesus and the apostles over and over and over again (while Jesus says nothing about homosexuality and other references in the NT are totally ambiguous if not made up)

The disproportion (beside suggesting an unhealthy interest in male/male sex) encourage violence and discrimination against gays. Indeed, that seems to be the purpose of the rhetoric, especially when fundies call for legal discrimination against gays.

It is especially galling given that our nation is steeped in greed and materialism, harming tens of millions of innocent people. And yet almost total silence on that from the fundies. Indeed, fundies defend greed, defend wealth, defend materialism. You don't see fundies calling for legal sanctions against greedy people, just gays. Very telling.

Sorry, if you want to be taken seriously stop focusing, fetishlike on gays, and remove the beam from your own eye -- greed.

 

[head of joaquin]

Plenty of non-religious people do that.

Not so much. But those that do don't claim God is out to punish gays, so they are doing God's work. That makes a difference.

 

[Logicman]

This is disingenuous. Fundies focus on gay sex endlessly, almost like a fetish.

Nice try. Juanita brought up the subject, which I quoted in my post # 487. If you guys don't want to hear about it then it would help your cause to not talk about it.

Yet fundies never say a word about greed or materialism or mistreatment of the poor, which is roundly condemned by Jesus and the apostles over and over and over again...

Not true. Sermons are preached regularly on the subjects, and Christians have plenty of rescue missions, homeless shelters, etc., to help the poor.

(while Jesus says nothing about homosexuality and other references in the NT are totally ambiguous if not made up)

Nuts. Jesus did speak on the subject. Jesus is God (many scriptures). As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Levitical law against gay sex to begin with; and he's the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sex in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10. etc. It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made.

Finally, it's the pro-gay community that's pushing what the Bible identifies as a sinful lifestyle. If they want to keep quiet about it then it will be a lot quieter on the subject in these parts. Otherwise Katy bar the door. We're not going quietly into the night on this, or on abortion, or on Obama's forced redistribution of wealth, etc.

 

[head of joaquin]

Nice try. Juanita brought up the subject, which I quoted in my post # 487. If you guys don't want to hear about it then it would help your cause to not talk about it.



Not true. Sermons are preached regularly on the subjects, and Christians have plenty of rescue missions, homeless shelters, etc., to help the poor.




Nuts. Jesus did speak on the subject. Jesus is God (many scriptures). As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Levitical law against gay sex to begin with; and he's the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sex in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10. etc. It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made.

Finally, it's the pro-gay community that's pushing what the Bible identifies as a sinful lifestyle. If they want to keep quiet about it then it will be a lot quieter on the subject in these parts. Otherwise Katy bar the door. We're not going quietly into the night on this, or on abortion, or on Obama's forced redistribution of wealth, etc.

If you only knew how disingenuous this sounds.

First, evangelicals are fixated on gay bashing and always have been. They've been bashing gays before it was fashionable.

Second, no, evangelicals do not focus on condemning greed, If you did, you'd be talking about how you need to throw overtly rich people out of church, and how you hate the sin but love the sinner who needs to be chastised by God. Take all the homophobic rhetoric you guys produce and put in greedy capitalist. I'd love to hear that.

Third, claiming that Jesus "spoke on the subject" of homosexuality is more evangelical nonsense. Jesus talks about the poor and condemns the rich more than any other topic. He never even mentions male/male sex. But here you are taking some of his sayings out of context and claiming he was condemning homosexuality, but not a word about the rich exploiting the poor, mostly because the rich support evangelical churches.

See this is why doctrinal Christianity is doomed. No honest person can take it seriously given its disingenuous rhetoric. The bottom line is you will always find a way to excuse greed and exploitation, and you will always find a way to bash gay people (and the poor). It's what evangelicals are about and why they are heretics that need to be ex communicated from the authentic church of Christ.

 

[Logicman]

If you only knew how disingenuous this sounds.

First, evangelicals are fixated on gay bashing and always have been. They've been bashing gays before it was fashionable.

Second, no, evangelicals do not focus on condemning greed, If you did, you'd be talking about how you need to throw overtly rich people out of church, and how you hate the sin but love the sinner who needs to be chastised by God. Take all the homophobic rhetoric you guys produce and put in greedy capitalist. I'd love to hear that.

Third, claiming that Jesus "spoke on the subject" of homosexuality is more evangelical nonsense. Jesus talks about the poor and condemns the rich more than any other topic. He never even mentions male/male sex. But here you are taking some of his sayings out of context and claiming he was condemning homosexuality, but not a word about the rich exploiting the poor, mostly because the rich support evangelical churches.

See this is why doctrinal Christianity is doomed. No honest person can take it seriously given its disingenuous rhetoric. The bottom line is you will always find a way to excuse greed and exploitation, and you will always find a way to bash gay people (and the poor). It's what evangelicals are about and why they are heretics that need to be ex communicated from the authentic church of Christ.

That's hogwash. I refer you back to my previous post.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/philo...171506-heaven-and-hell-50.html#post1062335042

 

[Jack Hays]

If you only knew how disingenuous this sounds.

First, evangelicals are fixated on gay bashing and always have been. They've been bashing gays before it was fashionable.

Second, no, evangelicals do not focus on condemning greed, If you did, you'd be talking about how you need to throw overtly rich people out of church, and how you hate the sin but love the sinner who needs to be chastised by God. Take all the homophobic rhetoric you guys produce and put in greedy capitalist. I'd love to hear that.

Third, claiming that Jesus "spoke on the subject" of homosexuality is more evangelical nonsense. Jesus talks about the poor and condemns the rich more than any other topic. He never even mentions male/male sex. But here you are taking some of his sayings out of context and claiming he was condemning homosexuality, but not a word about the rich exploiting the poor, mostly because the rich support evangelical churches.

See this is why doctrinal Christianity is doomed. No honest person can take it seriously given its disingenuous rhetoric. The bottom line is you will always find a way to excuse greed and exploitation, and you will always find a way to bash gay people (and the poor). It's what evangelicals are about and why they are heretics that need to be ex communicated from the authentic church of Christ.

This is a hate post, and I have reported it as such.eace

 

[ecofarm]

Not so much. But those that do don't claim God is out to punish gays, so they are doing God's work. That makes a difference.

I figure homophobia is the leading cause. Most of that is denial and rage. It occurs about equally among populations. Religion is a tool, blaming an object is idolatry.

 

[head of joaquin]

I figure homophobia is the leading cause. Most of that is denial and rage. It occurs about equally among populations. Religion is a tool, blaming an object is idolatry.

I think the Pope is getting it:

Pope Francis faulted the Roman Catholic church for focusing too much on gays, abortion and contraception, saying the church has become "obsessed" with those issues to the detriment of its larger mission to be "home for all," according to an extensive new interview published Thursday.

Pope Francis: Gays, Abortion Too Much Of Catholic Church's Obsession

 

[Juanita]

Gay sexual relations are a sin. So is fornication, adultery, etc. But nowhere in the New Covenant are Christians commanded to stone or kill anyone. So you can't diss Christianity because some people violate its precepts anymore than you can paint all gays as murderers just because some have committed the offense. You'll need a better argument than that.

Do not put "your" religion in my face... Who are you to say what is wrong and what is not...If one African gay is executed because of an American (or any other) evangelical fundamentalist going over to spread their propaganda of hate and intolerance, I would hold all Christians responsible. You people read a book and then try to dictate law, morals and everything else from a dam book...It is ridiculous...

 

[Juanita]

Yes, of course. There are plenty of gangsters, politicians and scumbags of various sort that are homophobes.

But mostly it is American evangelical fundamentalists who go over there and preach their doctrine of hate and intolerance...

 

[ecofarm]

But mostly it is American evangelical fundamentalists who go over there and preach their doctrine of hate and intolerance...

No, not mostly. They are few in the US and discriminatory legislation exists.

 

[Juanita]

No, not mostly. They are few in the US and discriminatory legislation exists.

Uganda for one......what is the point...Here or there, it is a doctrine of hate and intolerance...