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Have Israel used chemical weapons???

ecofarm said:
That's a private company and they do not reveal any evidence or even sources for data. Likely motivated by PR.

And they claim that at least 30% of rebels are moderates.
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It's an online newspaper. It's about an actual study that was done using information from intelligence and actual interviews with rebels. Completely valid. You are being intentionally ignorant or you are in denial about what is happening over there. This certainly isn't the only source reporting this, as you well know. Why is it so important to you to pretend that this movement is based on anything noble? It is confusing the position you are taking on this matter, that's for sure.

Charles Lister, author of the analysis, said: "The insurgency is now dominated by groups which have at least an Islamist viewpoint on the conflict. The idea that it is mostly secular groups leading the opposition is just not borne out."

The study is based on intelligence estimates and interviews with activists and militants. The lengthy fighting has seen the emergence of hundreds of separate rebel bands, each operating in small pockets of the country, which are usually loyal to larger factions.
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A statement posted online by Islamists announced the launch of an ISIL military offensive in the eastern district of Aleppo which it called "Cleansing Evil". "We will target regime collaborators, shabiha [pro-Assad militias], and those who blatantly attacked the Islamic state," it added, naming the Farouq and Nasr factions.

Al-Qaeda has assassinated several FSA rebel commanders in northern Latakia province in recent weeks, and locals say they fear this is part of a jihadist campaign to gain complete control of the territory.

As well as being better armed and tougher fighters, ISIL and Jabhat al-Nusra have taken control of much of the income-generating resources in the north of the country, including oil, gas and grain.

This has given them significant economic clout, allowing them to "win hearts and minds" by providing food for the local population in a way that other rebel groups cannot.
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ChrisL said:
It's an online newspaper.
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No, it's a private data handling company that has not released the sources for any of their data.

And it contradicts your narrative.
 
ecofarm said:
That's a private company and they do not reveal any evidence or even sources for data. Likely motivated by PR.

And they claim that at least 30% of rebels are moderates.
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The bad guys have taken over. When it comes to warring, they are more knowledgeable, more skilled and will do whatever it takes to take over. You should know this by now.
 
ecofarm said:
No, it's a private data handling company that has not released the sources for any of their data.

And it contradicts your narrative.
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You are wrong, as the rest of my post which you chose to leave out, confirms.
 
ChrisL said:
You are wrong, as the rest of my post which you chose to leave out, confirms.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IHS_Inc.

Learn to examine sources.


They claim at least 30% of the rebels are moderate. They've revealed no sources for the data they handled. They also have not said who hired them to do so.
 
ecofarm said:
Citation?
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You are being intentionally obtuse about this. I as well as many, many other people have cited plenty of information for you. You don't read it and refuse to address it. Why should I even bother with you anymore?
 
ecofarm said:
That's a private company and they do not reveal any evidence or even sources for data. Likely motivated by PR.
And they claim that at least 30% of rebels are moderates.
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This is a private company that is usually contracted to analyse various themes including terrorism, military issues, general country analysis etc....

The full report is supposed to be released later this week, and the "sources"...well we would be able to judge them only after they release the full report.

Fallen.
 
Fallenangel said:
This is a private company that is usually contracted to analyse various themes including terrorism, military issues, general country analysis etc....

The full report is supposed to be released later this week, and the "sources"...well we would be able to judge them only after they release the full report.

Fallen.
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So, that's doesn't make taking it as fact - now - any less stupid.

To add insult to injury, it contradicts the narrative of defeatists.
 
ecofarm said:
So, that's doesn't make taking it as fact - now - any less stupid.

To add insult to injury, it contradicts the narrative of defeatists.
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Taking anything to do with this matter as "fact" right now, as far as these rebels are concerned, means a person is in full blown retard mode.
 
ChrisL said:
Taking anything to do with this matter as "fact" right now, as far as these rebels are concerned, means a person is in full blown retard mode.
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And you claim the terrorists have taken over the rebels, based on nothing and despite all evidence being otherwise.
 
ecofarm said:
So, that's doesn't make taking it as fact - now - any less stupid.
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Indeed it doesn't - until we'd see the full report it is hard to make judgement about this information.

However, what is more important though is that when one makes an analysis of the forces on the ground he needs to clearly define the terms he uses, as the terms that are often used e.g. "extremists", "moderates"...etc do not provide an adequate description for the various groups in Syria.

"Islamic extremists" (I don't remember the exact term Kerry used) doesn't say much about the nature of these people and the nature of the rest 75-85%, as some fighters might be Islamists but not related to Al-Qaeda, and so on.

Fallen.
 
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ecofarm said:
And you claim the terrorists have taken over the rebels, based on nothing and despite all evidence being otherwise.
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There is no evidence otherwise. The only thing the inspectors said was that there was chemical weapons attack. And if you think for one second that most of these trained fighters who are fighting a professional army with some success are just plain citizens, then I don't know what to say. That's just sad. These regular dirt poor people don't know about fighting or how to operate weapons effectively. They are not professional fighters like the terrorist groups of Al Quada and Al Nusra. Us going in there and helping is going to effectively start a civil war between these rebel factions for control. Who do you think will win that battle?

Syrian rebel group could revive al Qaeda's fortunes: report | Reuters
 
Fallenangel said:
Indeed it doesn't - until we'd see the full report it is hard to make judgement about this information.
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That's not the same as finding it likely that Obama has the photos of the withdrawal as he claims. Nor is it as likely that the secretary of state has bad info.

It's odd that isolationists (ethnic, cultural and economic), find themselves in bed with corporatism. So many socialists and other left-leaning economic positions stand trumpeting the Truth of a private company that has not revealed sources. The same people who tell us that corporate America is only about money and can never be trusted accept their word over that of the president and secretary of state. And these people are dems. Weird.
 
ChrisL said:
There is no evidence otherwise.
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The claims of the secretary of state and that link you cited. Those are the the only macro numbers we have. But no, you're gonna go "all evidence is fake" to continue your narrative.
 
ecofarm said:
The claims of the secretary of state and that link you cited. Those are the the only macro numbers we have. But no, you're gonna go "all evidence is fake" to continue your narrative.
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The links says they have no evidence as to who used chemical weapons, only that chemical weapons were used, and then they draw conclusions from there based on location. That is not good enough evidence. It's sketchy to say the least.

Also, you never answered my question from earlier. Why would Assad target a school full of kids and teachers that are no threat to him? It doesn't make sense that he would waste it like that when he has people actively trying to kill him. It doesn't add up.
 
ChrisL said:
The links says they have no evidence as to who used chemical weapons, only that chemical weapons were used, and then they draw conclusions from there based on location. That is not good enough evidence. It's sketchy to say the least.
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I was referring to the private company link. The UN report concludes that two types of rockets were used, neither is known to be had by the rebels and the rebels do not have the training nor ability to launch that type of rocket. The UN report also claimed trajectories that prove the rockets came from Assad controlled areas of Damascus.

Also, you never answered my question from earlier. Why would Assad target a school full of kids and teachers that are no threat to him? It doesn't make sense that he would waste it like that when he has people actively trying to kill him. It doesn't add up.
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I told you, that could be terrorists. We know there are terrorists in the mix. That event has nothing to do with evidence of Assad gassing Damascus.
 
ecofarm said:
That's not the same as finding it likely that Obama has the photos of the withdrawal as he claims. Nor is it as likely that the secretary of state has bad info.
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Unfortunately, for Obama, Kerry and the rest that wanted to find general support for the attack- it is the most important point.
You see I couldn't care less about what is likely or not, or about what somebody claims to have/not have, what I do care about is the actual data they can present and the factual evidence/information they present - simply because these are the only parts that we can actually debate/discuss.
If somebody claims that he knows/has something and he looks for my support on that issue...well it is his responsibility to provide the adequate evidence/information to support his position.


ecofarm said:
It's odd that isolationists (ethnic, cultural and economic), find themselves in bed with corporatism. So many socialists and other left-leaning economic positions stand trumpeting the Truth of a private company that has not revealed sources. The same people who tell us that corporate America is only about money and can never be trusted accept their word over that of the president and secretary of state. And these people are dems. Weird.
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When the picture isn't clear enough to separate it to "blacks & whites", "good & bad" people act weird - especially when it comes to taking sides on topics they usually don't fully understand or know enough about. :shrug:

Btw. I've seen past studies by that company, they weren't that bad at all ...oh well, we"ll just have to wait for this report to come out.

Fallen.
 
Fallenangel said:
Unfortunately, for Obama, Kerry and the rest that wanted to find general support for the attack- it is the most important point.
You see I couldn't care less about what is likely or not, or about what somebody claims to have/not have, what I do care about is the actual data they can present and the factual evidence/information they present - simply because these are the only parts that we can actually debate/discuss.
If somebody claims that he knows/has something and he looks for my support on that issue...well it is his responsibility to provide the adequate evidence/information to support his position.

When the picture isn't clear enough to separate it to "blacks & whites", "good & bad" people act weird - especially when it comes to taking sides on topics they usually don't fully understand or know enough about. :shrug:

Btw. I've seen past studies by that company, they weren't that bad at all ...oh well, we"ll just have to wait for this report to come out.

Fallen.
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Either you can take the numbers available, one from the US and one from a private company, and accept that a large portion of the rebels are moderate or you can claim "all evidence is fake" to perpetuate a baseless narrative.
 
ecofarm said:
Either you can take the numbers available, one from the US and one from a private company, and accept that a large portion of the rebels are moderate or you can claim "all evidence is fake" to perpetuate a baseless narrative.
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Not really,
First I would define who I would consider to be moderates, extremists, Islamists, etc...
Secondly, I would make my assessment based on a number of sources that can be found online, opinions of ME experts, other available sources.
Than I would characterize the various groups according to their affiliation, ideology, structure and abilities.

You see as I already mentioned, sheer numbers and blank terms like "moderates" or "extremists" don't really tell much about these groups,
and most importantly about their ability to influence Syria's present and future.


Fallen.
 
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