Gun Owners: What would you give up for reciprocity?

[MMC]

So then you are completely ignorant of the word RIGHT being used to identify a position on the political or ideological continuum?

political continuum - Google Search

No not at all.....I was just making sure you knew what the Bottomline was beyond all that. Didn't want you to have any confusion over it.

 

[Perotista]

Compromise gets things done. What would gun enthusiasts be willing to give up (in the way of gun control) in order to get reciprocity throughout the United States?

Why should gun owners give up anything in reciprocity? What they have now is guaranteed by the second amendment. The way this works is background checks today, gun registration tomorrow. Then followed by government approval to buy a gun shortly there after and then gun confiscation a bit later. All done by increments and the effect will be felt only among those legal law abiding citizens. The bad guys and criminals will still do their thing.

 

[MaggieD]

Why should gun owners give up anything in reciprocity? What they have now is guaranteed by the second amendment. The way this works is background checks today, gun registration tomorrow. Then followed by government approval to buy a gun shortly there after and then gun confiscation a bit later. All done by increments and the effect will be felt only among those legal law abiding citizens. The bad guys and criminals will still do their thing.

I think you don't understand what I meant by reciprocity. Right now, your license to carry or concealed carry permit is not valid throughout the United States. Some states have reciprocity. Not all. If you have a license to drive, it is valid in all 50 states. That's reciprocity. If you have a license in your own state to own, carry or conceal a gun? There is no overall reciprocity. That's what I mean.

 

[Jerry]

Compromise gets things done. What would gun enthusiasts be willing to give up (in the way of gun control) in order to get reciprocity throughout the United States?

There's already to much gun control, so I don't have anything to offer.

If you wanted to require some kind of federally regulated licence like we have for driving, ok, I'll jump through the hoops and get that....but I don't see what else there is to give up.

 

[CalGun]

What does reciprocity mean? I don't understand what is offered.

I've long thought gun rights activist would be wise to support an instant, online, simple, and affordable back ground check - you know enter name, address, ssn and boom - result instantly. In return
I expected those who already own guns and can prove as much would not have to wait any longer for a stupid "cooling off period." I mean why make someone wait 10 days when they already own
a gun. This usually goes no where with the radical libertarian sect of the pro gun movement, and unfortunately the left will offer nothing in return - but I'm asking what does reciprocity mean?

Compromise gets things done. What would gun enthusiasts be willing to give up (in the way of gun control) in order to get reciprocity throughout the United States?

 

[Jerry]

What does reciprocity mean? I don't understand what is offered.

OP is asking what you would give up in exchange for your CCW to be good in every other state, thus allowing you to carry a gun anywhere in the US.

Reciprocity means to reciprocate. If you honor my licence, I will honor yours. National reciprocity means every state licences is honored by every other state. Marriage and driving being the best examples. Your marriage licence and your state's drivers licence are honored in every other state in the US.

This is not the case with your state's CCW.

Concealed Carry Permit Reciprocity Maps - USA Carry

LegalHeat

Hadgun Laws

 

[CalGun]

Unless reciprocity (in that case) came with a shall issue clause for all the states its really meaningless. A ccw should be as easy to get as a DL, or as easy to register to vote. In too many states that is a meaningless offer because the permit is so hard to get. I have mine, I could say tough, but I know too many people here in CA that have a hard to impossible time getting them. To me that is not "getting enough" in terms of compromise. Though as an added compromise to the one I mentioned (no waiting period) it'd be good.

OP is asking what you would give up in exchange for your CCW to be good in every other state, thus allowing you to carry a gun anywhere in the US.

Reciprocity means to reciprocate. If you honor my licence, I will honor yours. National reciprocity means every state licences is honored by every other state. Marriage and driving being the best examples. Your marriage licence and your state's drivers licence are honored in every other state in the US.

This is not the case with your state's CCW.

Concealed Carry Permit Reciprocity Maps - USA Carry

LegalHeat

Hadgun Laws

 

[Jerry]

Unless reciprocity (in that case) came with a shall issue clause for all the states its really meaningless. A ccw should be as easy to get as a DL, or as easy to register to vote. In too many states that is a meaningless offer because the permit is so hard to get. I have mine, I could say tough, but I know too many people here in CA that have a hard to impossible time getting them. To me that is not "getting enough" in terms of compromise. Though as an added compromise to the one I mentioned (no waiting period) it'd be good.

Yeah you CA guys have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get your permit. I had to pay $10 and got my SD permit in the mail the next week. My Utah permit required a class, fingerprints, and a bit more money, and took 3 months to arrive in the mail.

I agree, your CCW should be no more complicated, costly, or time involved then your drivers licence.

And it's one thing for someone to promote registration, but to specify your weapon on your permit is just retarded. Imagine having to put your car information on your drivers licence and you were only ever allowed to drive that car.

 

[haymarket]

You are twisting my words, as I never said or suggested such a thing, it is clearly meant as more attack/baiting. I suggest per Goshin's warning, you stop this line of response.

You received a warning for your post against me. I received no such warning for anything regarding you nor have I done anything regarding posting to you to merit one. Please do not confuse the two.

You clearly compared my understanding to that of a middle school student clearly implying that if I could only see things through the same prism as a middle school student does, then I would understand as you seem to understand.

It was your usage and your example. Not mine

Were the citizens of the nation more 'free' in terms of gun rights back then, or are they 'more free' now? The answer is then.

I gave you the historical record which clearly proved your unfounded and unsupported allegations and claims baseless and incorrect.

Could the courts re-visit those days, as per Heller, they would hold such bans as unconstitutional.

By all means, do please present that evidence. You have not because there is none to present and what you are saying is merely your own opinion based on your own belief system which is beyond verifiable evidence on this issue.

The entire discussion is about FEDERAL level stuff BTW.

I see nothing in the OP which states that. Nothing. Many posters have clearly been discussing state level laws. Would you like post numbers of those who have done so? There are some right here on this very page. But I will be happy to show you others. It is you who are pretending that it is about something it is not because you made a unsupported statement and were proved wrong with the historical record. You clearly made a statement that people were free to open carry in the old west. I proved you wrong with the historical record.

But lets us look at it again in case you still have a doubt:

here is what I said

The open carry movement has grown by leaps and bounds.

and here is your reply

Huh? Open carry? Like they did from before we were a nation through the 'cowboy' days? That in many places you can NOT do any longer? Again, that's not a + on the side of the gun lobby... removing rights from the citizens is a -. Fail again.

No mention anywhere about federal versus state or local. You invent this stuff as you go along. And you were proven that your basic allegation about open carry in the west was shown to be a false statement disroven by the historical record.

 

[CalGun]

Our system is lame; for it depends on a local sheriff or police chief. Where I live the police chief has decided not to issue and does nothing but hand them to his retired officers and other retirees (how I got mine). He defers all applicants to the "county" sheriff who has established a pretty simple system, but he has hundreds of pending applications and only so much time.

I am told that in Sacramento Anti Gun Advocates are lining up for permit reviews. It costs nothing to make an application and take a calendar date and then they cancel taking pleasure in denying someone who really wants a review / interview the ability to get one. I'm even told this is being done by staffers at democratic assembly / state senate offices with the intent to make getting a permit for law abiding people hard to impossible.

Yeah you CA guys have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get your permit. I had to pay $10 and got my SD permit in the mail the next week. My Utah permit required a class, fingerprints, and a bit more money, and took 3 months to arrive in the mail.

I agree, your CCW should be no more complicated, costly, or time involved then your drivers licence.

And it's one thing for someone to promote registration, but to specify your weapon on your permit is just retarded. Imagine having to put your car information on your drivers licence and you were only ever allowed to drive that car.

 

[notquiteright]

Discussion for another time/place really.

Agreed, just thought it odd to be dragging that into this... eace

 

[Surtr]

Compromise gets things done. What would gun enthusiasts be willing to give up (in the way of gun control) in order to get reciprocity throughout the United States?

I don't see the need for any compromise on the subject. We've already given up enough, with nothing in return.

 

[Arbo]

You invent this stuff as you go along. And you were proven that your basic allegation about open carry in the west was shown to be a false statement disroven by the historical record.

You are again flame baiting, as Goshin told you to stop doing.

You are incorrect on you historical 'proof'. As stated before a city here and there does not equal the country. There was more 'gun' freedom back then. Open carry was more 'legal' and common back then.

 

[LaMidRighter]

I don't see the need for any compromise on the subject. We've already given up enough, with nothing in return.

Compromise my ass, it's about time for a full take back of ground.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

You received a warning for your post against me. I received no such warning for anything regarding you nor have I done anything regarding posting to you to merit one. Please do not confuse the two.

Moderator's Warning:

Yeah... actually you DID receive a warning: Moderator's Warning: Hay, Arbo.... behave. Let's skip the insulting each other's intelligence and discuss the issue pls. You need to stop immediately or you will be booted from the thread. And Arbo... please stop commenting on this publicly.

 

[Henrin]

I never understood why this debate people use words like compromise. I can't recall a time when the people pushing for gun control ever had to give up something. It's always we want gun control and the other side has to try to give away as little as possible while they give nothing. Absolutely ****ing nothing. I said this in another other thread a few minutes ago, but the next time this crap comes up I want the republicans to put on the table a random part of the safety net liberals love so much and demand that in return. Let us see how long they are willing to play or if they cry about how evil the republicans are by asking for something in return that they know liberals hold dear.

 

[Arbo]

I never understood why this debate people use words like compromise. I can't recall a time when the people pushing for gun control ever had to give up something.

That's the point, they have NEVER given up something. They never had anything to give up to start with, only pro-2nd people did. Give up or have taken away that is.

 

[Thrilla]

I'm in no position to compromise anything for other states in return for reciprocity.... in fact, I support a state not accepting reciprocity if they choose not to.

while I do support universal reciprocity, I would not support this being a federal initiative or mandate... it would have to be voluntary agreement among the several states.

as for being asked to compromise over more restrictions/infringements on our rights.. the answer is no....those rights are not up for negotiation or compromise.

if I was pushed, I guess i could compromise on say.. universal background checks... in return, I'll ask for the criminalization of gun control advocacy.
an infringement of my 2nd amendment rights for an infringement of your 1st amendment rights....sounds fair.

 

[Jerry]

I'm in no position to compromise anything for other states in return for reciprocity.... in fact, I support a state not accepting reciprocity if they choose not to.

while I do support universal reciprocity, I would not support this being a federal initiative or mandate... it would have to be voluntary agreement among the several states.

as for being asked to compromise over more restrictions/infringements on our rights.. the answer is no....those rights are not up for negotiation or compromise.

if I was pushed, I guess i could compromise on say.. universal background checks... in return, I'll ask for the criminalization of gun control advocacy.
an infringement of my 2nd amendment rights for an infringement of your 1st amendment rights....sounds fair.

That's what I would give....ssm. National reciprocity for ssm, even in states like mine which passed constitutional amendments against ssm, and under the exact same interstate commerce regulatory authority also give reciprocity to CCWs.

That's what I'll give you, a social issue.

 

[Surtr]

Compromise my ass, it's about time for a full take back of ground.

I''l give them the democrat compromise: I'll take back all of my Second Amendment rights, and they can shut up about it. I'll even allow them to pout a little, but only a little.

 

[VanceMack]

I think you don't understand what I meant by reciprocity. Right now, your license to carry or concealed carry permit is not valid throughout the United States. Some states have reciprocity. Not all. If you have a license to drive, it is valid in all 50 states. That's reciprocity. If you have a license in your own state to own, carry or conceal a gun? There is no overall reciprocity. That's what I mean.

Not to be snarky on this, but do you see a whole lot of anti-gun people enthused about the idea of allowing gun owners to carry concealed in all 50 states? The only 'give' I see anti-gun people 'offering' is essentially "be glad we let you keep ANYTHING".

Most states have taken proactive measures to ensure/secure the Constitutional rights of their citizens against the encroachment by the federal government. When you say it out loud...that seems pretty inane that they have to actually take state legislative measures to secure a right specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights.

 

[apdst]

Compromise gets things done. What would gun enthusiasts be willing to give up (in the way of gun control) in order to get reciprocity throughout the United States?

Nothing.

 

[tessaesque]

I am saying using the knife attack as a right wing whine sarcastically calling for knife control isn't helping the 2nd A argument any. Am saying the knife welding loony didn't kill anyone but wouldn't want to bet on the same low fatality rate if he had been using a firearm. Try and dismiss it all you want but the fact is the knife dude had a very poor score compared to the pistol/high cap mag dude did in the Gabby gifford case, to just use one firearm attack.

What are the three profiles of which you speak? How do we address them... it is all fine and good for the right wing rant to claim it can be done, but frankly you all balk at saying anything more than that.

if you doctor thinks you could be a threat to yourself and others I can see where your ability to own firearms SHOULD be questioned. However the right wing fights ANY attempt to come to terms with how to bell the loony tune cat and throws out massive BS claims to muddy the water. the problem with only one side attempting to get a handle on mental illness and firearm ownership is there is no balance, so instead of ranting about Chantrix and using unnamed 'victims' of confiscation, lets have some real hard data.

You can start with naming the three profiles and how they can be screened without threatening people like you and your ability to keep firearms...

I can name the three profiles, but addressing screening would take a novel...and quite frankly, you could easily do the research yourself. So I'll give you the jumping off point, but I'll not be your little information slave.

The profiles are:

1) Disgruntled employee/former employee w/a history of erratic behavior or aggression
2) Disgruntled lover/ex lover w/a history of erratic behavior, aggression, or substance abuse
3) Loner/introverted late-teen-to-early-twenties with history of isolationism/mental disturbance.

And almost ALL of them are also male. If you look into mass shootings since 1980, you'll find that almost all of them can be pigeon-holed into those three categories. Now, as to how to address it? Go read books by John Douglas, or biographies on Hoover to learn how profiling is applied to crime prevention. And then understand that you'll still have a very hard time preventing the illegal acquisition of firearms.

 

[tech30528]

I think anybody in government who has a vote on the subject should have to show a reasonable understanding of firearms. They should be able to explain the difference between a semi auto and a full auto and FFS explain the difference between a magazine, a clip and a bullet. If you don't understand these differences you have no right to be making changes in other people's lives. Would you want a Senator who knows nothing about medicine taking equipment out of your doctor's office because they think it looks scary?

 

[BretJ]

Compromise gets things done. What would gun enthusiasts be willing to give up (in the way of gun control) in order to get reciprocity throughout the United States?

Hmmmmm....I would happily give up 2/3rds of our legislators and the ACLU.