Growing Disapproval of Protests Against Police

[Jack Hays]

Kentucky’s only Black female legislator arrested on felony rioting charge at Breonna Taylor protest
By Jaclyn Peiser

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Let me ask you out of sincere curiosity, do you think the cops involved in the Breonna Taylor situation are examples of bad cops?

Now let me ask you in sincere curiosity:
Would you consider it "okay" if our commercial air traffic control system had "bad controllers" who allowed five percent of all flights to end in crashes or if we had ten percent of "bad pilots" who didn't mind crashing into a mountainside?

And don't respond with free market answers because I am not questioning the marketability of such a thing, I am asking if YOU, Mister Bullseye, would think it was okay.

Why are police unions not doing their utmost to weed out incompetent or just plain rogue cops?
Why are police unions hell bent on challenging the authority of civilian control of police? (the voters, city council, mayors, police chiefs, governors)
The fact is, whether the police like it or not, those civilians ARE their bosses and NOT the other way around.
But there is a growing amount of signs that point to the idea that police unions have the opposite idea, that THEY are "in charge" of policy and its application therein.

But hey, just answer the bad pilot question and I'll be satisfied.

 

[OlNate]

I dare say everyone knows black lives matter and that fascism is bad but not everyone agrees that cops are racist killers and that message is absolutely worth opposing.

But that's not the message, X. It's that SOME are. And it's that a whole bunch more tolerate it, and cover it up. The best way of opposing that message is by being honest and transparent, and not trying to cover up for the bad employees, but getting rid of them and making them accountable instead. Not exaggerating the grievance in an attempt to invalidate, and ultimately silence it. People like good cops, X. They can do that, while at the same time being sick and tired of bad cops beating them up and killing them. I know you're smart enough to understand that.

 

[OlNate]

Let me ask you out of sincere curiosity, do you think the cops involved in the Breonna Taylor situation are examples of bad cops?

I'll answer this one. Bad, yes. Racist? Who knows. There are different kinds of bad, in this case it's lack of training and using tactics that are proven to be dangerous and end up in collateral damage.

 

[X Factor]

Yes, the RW crazies reacted so well to the peaceful protest done by Kaepernick. Maybe if they had paid attention then we would not be here today....

I don’t understand this thinking. You better agree with some protest or violence is justified?

 

[X Factor]

I'll answer this one. Bad, yes. Racist? Who knows. There are different kinds of bad, in this case it's lack of training and using tactics that are proven to be dangerous and end up in collateral damage.
[/QUOTE]

Incompetent.

I'll answer this one. Bad, yes. Racist? Who knows. There are different kinds of bad, in this case it's lack of training and using tactics that are proven to be dangerous and end up in collateral damage.

Executing a search warrant is dangerous business so they do tend to use a sort of shock and awe approach. The one thing I do disagree with is the length of time that passed before they executed the warrant. As far as how they handled it, they had a search warrant which gave them a legal right of entry, they were shot at and they shot back.

Do you think the boyfriend acted correctly by shooting at them? I ask because, typically, when a home owner shoots at someone in his/her house, even someone there illegally, there still seems to be this idea that you shouldn’t shoot someone just for breaking in. Not saying I hold that position because don’t. Do you, though?

 

[ttwtt78640]

There’d have to be agreement as to what that “root cause” is, Nate. The reality is that police aren’t killing black people for the color of their skin and it’s frustrating to see that lie persist. Let’s look at the Breonna Taylor case and the false narratives that continue to be pushed. Police were executing a warrant at the address on the warrant. Yes, it was no knock but they did knock (more like pounded, I’m sure) and announced, they were fired upon and they shot back. How is that targeting someone because she’s black? If cops just wanted to kill black people, why didn’t they kill the guy that shot at them? He gave them the perfect excuse.

To be clear, I don’t think Breonna Taylor “deserved” to die, but she wasn’t executed, she was caught in the middle of a shoot out with police and was shot and, tragically, killed.

Yep, but if one views the “root cause” to be police serving the search warrant then “defunding” the police would solve that problem.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The warrant was bogus and no charges were ever filed against this so-called drug dealer. But, hey. Who cares. right.? It's just a dead black chick.

If that is the case then the problem lies with the judge issuing the “bogus” warrant.

 

[X Factor]

Yep, but if one views the “root cause” to be police serving the search warrant then “defunding” the police would solve that problem.

Tue, there’s a lot less to worry about if they don’t bother with law enforcement.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Tue, there’s a lot less to worry about if they don’t bother with law enforcement.

The crime rate would drop significantly - proving that it worked.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Do you think the boyfriend acted correctly by shooting at them? I ask because, typically, when a home owner shoots at someone in his/her house, even someone there illegally, there still seems to be this idea that you shouldn’t shoot someone just for breaking in. Not saying I hold that position because don’t. Do you, though?

I sure as Hell don't. The moment you BREAK IN to my home or business, the forced or unauthorized entry is prima facie.
You were not asked to enter, you were not permitted to enter, I don't know you, I don't want to know you and I do not want you in my home or business and you have seconds to beat a hasty exit before I defend myself and even California law backs me up on this.

I do not have enough information on the Breonna Taylor case except to know that her death was 100 percent avoidable, and that police union protectionism and qualified immunity are the exacerbating conditions that are contributing to public outcry.
The taxpayers are being punished by being forced to underwrite criminal negligence and no police officers are ever held accountable.
So why should they change or improve? There is ZERO motivation, ZERO positive reinforcement and ZERO negative reinforcement. There's literally NOTHING! There is NO factor that motivates police to change or improve.
They now have carte blanche beyond anything imaginable in a free country.
Their powers are now equal to those one finds in authoritarian dictatorships, and now, with the recent adulation for vigilantes, I can now pretend to be John Law on the STREETS, as long as I have the correct right wing pedigree, i.e. endorsement by the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, etc.

You back that if you want.
I have problems with it, all of it.
It bears ZERO resemblance to what I knew as law enforcement growing up in the 60's, 70's and beyond.
Of course there are good cops, but the environment that's been created for them now allows them to conduct themselves as "The King's Men" with absolute impunity.

 

[Razoo]

I sure as Hell don't. The moment you BREAK IN to my home or business, the forced or unauthorized entry is prima facie.
You were not asked to enter, you were not permitted to enter, I don't know you, I don't want to know you and I do not want you in my home or business and you have seconds to beat a hasty exit before I defend myself and even California law backs me up on this.

I do not have enough information on the Breonna Taylor case except to know that her death was 100 percent avoidable, and that police union protectionism and qualified immunity are the exacerbating conditions that are contributing to public outcry.
The taxpayers are being punished by being forced to underwrite criminal negligence and no police officers are ever held accountable.
So why should they change or improve? There is ZERO motivation, ZERO positive reinforcement and ZERO negative reinforcement. There's literally NOTHING! There is NO factor that motivates police to change or improve.
They now have carte blanche beyond anything imaginable in a free country.
Their powers are now equal to those one finds in authoritarian dictatorships, and now, with the recent adulation for vigilantes, I can now pretend to be John Law on the STREETS, as long as I have the correct right wing pedigree, i.e. endorsement by the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, etc.

You back that if you want.
I have problems with it, all of it.
It bears ZERO resemblance to what I knew as law enforcement growing up in the 60's, 70's and beyond.
Of course there are good cops, but the environment that's been created for them now allows them to conduct themselves as "The King's Men" with absolute impunity.

Very good ..... applause applause

 

[Razoo]

Every Community should have a viable Citizen Commission to investigate police actions and budgets.

Absolutely!

Why should we in America allow law enforcement and elected officials to investigate themselves?

 

[ttwtt78640]

I sure as Hell don't. The moment you BREAK IN to my home or business, the forced or unauthorized entry is prima facie.
You were not asked to enter, you were not permitted to enter, I don't know you, I don't want to know you and I do not want you in my home or business and you have seconds to beat a hasty exit before I defend myself and even California law backs me up on this.

I do not have enough information on the Breonna Taylor case except to know that her death was 100 percent avoidable, and that police union protectionism and qualified immunity are the exacerbating conditions that are contributing to public outcry.
The taxpayers are being punished by being forced to underwrite criminal negligence and no police officers are ever held accountable.
So why should they change or improve? There is ZERO motivation, ZERO positive reinforcement and ZERO negative reinforcement. There's literally NOTHING! There is NO factor that motivates police to change or improve.
They now have carte blanche beyond anything imaginable in a free country.
Their powers are now equal to those one finds in authoritarian dictatorships, and now, with the recent adulation for vigilantes, I can now pretend to be John Law on the STREETS, as long as I have the correct right wing pedigree, i.e. endorsement by the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, etc.

You back that if you want.
I have problems with it, all of it.
It bears ZERO resemblance to what I knew as law enforcement growing up in the 60's, 70's and beyond.
Of course there are good cops, but the environment that's been created for them now allows them to conduct themselves as "The King's Men" with absolute impunity.

I agree with most of what you said, but a judge granted the police permission to enter even unannounced and by force. To shift the all blame to the police is not reasonable, IMHO.

 

[Razoo]

How do we know the judge allowed an unannounced visit? That would be putting law enforcement in jeopardy.

If law enforcement could not see where they were shooting or who they were shooting at law enforcement should not be shooting.
Law enforcement should wait the situation out = there was zero need for reckless shooting on the part of law enforcement.

How was the person inside to know who was coming through the door? Could have been people dropping by to steal money??????

Law enforcement had bullet proof gear on which allows them to stay out of the way and bring out a " bullhorn" to negotiate. The bottom line.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I agree with most of what you said, but a judge granted the police permission to enter even unannounced and by force. To shift the all blame to the police is not reasonable, IMHO.

Aye, therein lies the problem.
Okay, no knock forced entry approved.
Defense of home by tenant or homeowner approved.
Conflict noted because tenant or homeowner lacks the same qualified immunity police enjoy, or...put another way:
Police enjoy qualified immunity that tenant or homeowner does not.

Add to that what I pointed out earlier: Nothing to motivate better performance.
One would think that qualified immunity would carry with it commensurate responsibility and yet there is nothing to reinforce said commensurate responsibility, is there?
So when they do sloppy or careless work, no problem, they won't ever be held accountable for that sloppy careless work.

 

[RealityNow]

There’d have to be agreement as to what that “root cause” is, Nate. The reality is that police aren’t killing black people for the color of their skin and it’s frustrating to see that lie persist. Let’s look at the Breonna Taylor case and the false narratives that continue to be pushed. Police were executing a warrant at the address on the warrant. Yes, it was no knock but they did knock (more like pounded, I’m sure) and announced, they were fired upon and they shot back. How is that targeting someone because she’s black? If cops just wanted to kill black people, why didn’t they kill the guy that shot at them? He gave them the perfect excuse.

To be clear, I don’t think Breonna Taylor “deserved” to die, but she wasn’t executed, she was caught in the middle of a shoot out with police and was shot and, tragically, killed.

You miss the whole point...

You need to pay more attention to the actions of Police when it comes to black people, which is far more violent than when it comes to white people.

When a white guy is seen wandering around in public waving a gun, the police usually try to talk him down; he’s probably just having a bad day. Even if the white guy happens to be pointing his gun directly at an officer, his interaction with the police is unlikely to end in the exchange of gunfire. This is called white privilege.
Recent history suggests there’s a certain methodology for how police handle nearly identical gun-related incidents: white guys get arrested, while black guys get shot

Some of the biggest Drug Dealers in America, is "Wealthy White People".... You never hear and have not heard of any high number of black people "Importing Mass Volumes of Drugs Into America".... but you don't see them busting in these Wealthy White People's homes and firing blindly until their guns are empty.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Aye, therein lies the problem.
Okay, no knock forced entry approved.
Defense of home by tenant or homeowner approved.
Conflict noted because tenant or homeowner lacks the same qualified immunity police enjoy, or...put another way:
Police enjoy qualified immunity that tenant or homeowner does not.

Add to that what I pointed out earlier: Nothing to motivate better performance.
One would think that qualified immunity would carry with it commensurate responsibility and yet there is nothing to reinforce said commensurate responsibility, is there?
So when they do sloppy or careless work, no problem, they won't ever be held accountable for that sloppy careless work.

There was also (ultimately) no criminal charge for the house guest‘s shooting at the police. Whether that also counts as “qualified immunity” is up to you, but nobody was held accountable (criminally responsible?) for the resulting (collateral damage?) death of Taylor.

 

[Razoo]

How do we know the judge allowed an unannounced visit? That would be putting law enforcement in jeopardy.

If law enforcement could not see where they were shooting or who they were shooting at law enforcement should not be shooting.
Law enforcement should wait the situation out = there was zero need for reckless shooting on the part of law enforcement.

How was the person inside to know who was coming through the door? Could have been people dropping by to steal money??????

Law enforcement had bullet proof gear on which allows them to stay out of the way and bring out a " bullhorn" to negotiate. The bottom line.

It's the white folks doing most of the drugs because drugs are expensive..... face it a lot of women like hanging with drug dealers. It's the money, drugs and other finer things.

 

[secretive]

To everyone who wants to defund or abolish the police departments; Criminals would be the only ones benefitting from it. Violent crimes would be more common, and when you are the victim of such, who are you going to call for help? Police?

Yes, something should be done about police brutality, but I don't see how defunding police departments would help. The police officers who have shot and killed someone without a valid reason will have to serve long prison sentences.

Does destroying private property bring justice to the victims of police brutality?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

It's the white folks doing most of the drugs because drugs are expensive..... face it a lot of women like hanging with drug dealers. It's the money, drugs and other finer things.

Hydroponically grown purple chronic might be but I bet I can still find a generous size crack rock for ten or twenty bucks.
And it's been almost twenty-six years since I crumpled up some Chore Boy, stuffed it into a stem and dropped in a rock and lit the fire.

 

[RealityNow]

To everyone who wants to defund or abolish the police departments; Criminals would be the only ones benefitting from it. Violent crimes would be more common, and when you are the victim of such, who are you going to call for help? Police?

Yes, something should be done about police brutality, but I don't see how defunding police departments would help. The police officers who have shot and killed someone without a valid reason will have to serve long prison sentences.

Does destroying private property bring justice to the victims of police brutality?

There is no raw process of defunding police, it is re-ordering how the funds are utilized... the money that some states remove is slated to be utilized in other support means within how policing is conducted.

Most people do not support Protester Destroying Property. But in America, white people destroyed black people property in the promotion of racism even back during the early formation of the KKK.... and they continued doing it over a century and more. White people still burn black churches... in their protest against black people basic existence.

I personally don't care to see businesses burned, or building destroyed, regardless of who owns it. People need to look back and see who created that habitual process... and if they face the truth, they will see it was white people. They burned down Indian home camps as far back as the earliest days of white people on the lands of this nation.

white people like to have "SELECTIVE AMNESIA", because they delude themselves to think they are superior and assume they have the right to burn down, and destroy without any question being asked or blame being laid upon them.

We see these Right Wing White People going to protest that don't involve them, and carrying weapons and dressing like some militia mad men. They still want to live and act like some TV scripted "Wild Posse" when none of them have any appointment as legal peace officers.

 

[Razoo]

There is no raw process of defunding police, it is re-ordering how the funds are utilized... the money that some states remove is slated to be utilized in other support means within how policing is conducted.

Most people do not support Protester Destroying Property. But in America, white people destroyed black people property in the promotion of racism even back during the early formation of the KKK.... and they continued doing it over a century and more. White people still burn black churches... in their protest against black people basic existence.

I personally don't care to see businesses burned, or building destroyed, regardless of who owns it. People need to look back and see who created that habitual process... and if they face the truth, they will see it was white people. They burned down Indian home camps as far back as the earliest days of white people on the lands of this nation.

white people like to have "SELECTIVE AMNESIA", because they delude themselves to think they are superior and assume they have the right to burn down, and destroy without any question being asked or blame being laid upon them.

We see these Right Wing White People going to protest that don't involve them, and carrying weapons and dressing like some militia mad men. They still want to live and act like some TV scripted "Wild Posse" when none of them have any appointment as legal peace officers.

Applause applause

 

[secretive]

There is no raw process of defunding police, it is re-ordering how the funds are utilized... the money that some states remove is slated to be utilized in other support means within how policing is conducted.

Most people do not support Protester Destroying Property. But in America, white people destroyed black people property in the promotion of racism even back during the early formation of the KKK.... and they continued doing it over a century and more. White people still burn black churches... in their protest against black people basic existence.

I personally don't care to see businesses burned, or building destroyed, regardless of who owns it. People need to look back and see who created that habitual process... and if they face the truth, they will see it was white people. They burned down Indian home camps as far back as the earliest days of white people on the lands of this nation.

white people like to have "SELECTIVE AMNESIA", because they delude themselves to think they are superior and assume they have the right to burn down, and destroy without any question being asked or blame being laid upon them.

We see these Right Wing White People going to protest that don't involve them, and carrying weapons and dressing like some militia mad men. They still want to live and act like some TV scripted "Wild Posse" when none of them have any appointment as legal peace officers.

These days the rednecks "protesting against black peoples basic existence" don't get support from anyone, it is not a norm.

Should I take responsibility for something white people have done centuries ago, just because I am white?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

To everyone who wants to defund or abolish the police departments; Criminals would be the only ones benefitting from it. Violent crimes would be more common, and when you are the victim of such, who are you going to call for help? Police?

Yes, something should be done about police brutality, but I don't see how defunding police departments would help. The police officers who have shot and killed someone without a valid reason will have to serve long prison sentences.

Does destroying private property bring justice to the victims of police brutality?

Which "everyone" are you talking about?
Maybe you're talking about Camden NJ.
They did abolish their cop shop, then they bought a new one.
The results have been nothing short of astounding.

Defund or abolish...let's pretend we're talking about cars.
You have a car, it's a POS and you hate it because it never works properly.
You're stuck in a contract that you have to pay off, you can't do anything about the car until that note is paid off.
Or...you COULD get rid of it and pay off the note from the sale price.
Do you walk from that point forward or do you get another car?

That's what folks are talking about. See, these cities have union contracts with the cops and they can't make reforms because the police unions are fighting reform tooth and nail so the only option left is to just GET RID OF THE POLICE.
Quit being ridiculous with statements about no more police, please.

Of COURSE that city then needs to get themselves a new cop shop, everybody (okay everyone but a tiny handful of whackos) understands that you can't do without cops.
But like I said, Camden did get a new cop shop, and the new cop shop works very well, thank you.

Cities getting rid of their police departments have to come up with an alternative.
They CAN do that once they've disconnected themselves from their current clusterf***.

Think TIMESHARES, ever hear about how awful it is to be stuck in a timeshare you didn't really want?
Very similar.
Yes, I agree the term "defunding police" sounds terrible, stupid way of describing "getting out from under a police contract" which does not fit on a sign, unfortunately.

PS: If I had been in charge of coming up with a phrase, I would have just told people to put "CAMDEN NJ" on their signs. Believe me, the media would have asked and lookod into it and the message would be clear, because Camden = REFORM.