Germany in the time of the Holy Roman Empire - and Germany today

[Rumpel]

btw …. i am from baden …
we badeners are often lumped together with the swabians

but one can tell the differnce:

swabians work, badeners think!

 

[Rumpel]

enough for now …. here it is ten past elven ….

 

[Rumpel]

enough for now …. here it is ten past eleven …

zehn nach elf

 

[Rumpel]

Bit like Wilhelm Eins (William I) who refused to be named Kaiser von Deutschland but preferred to be Deutscher Kaiser (German Emperor rather than Emperor of Germany).

Going into the reasons for these kinds of semantics would explode this thread, so I won't.

it was the grand duke of baden who thought of that compromise ….

 

[Rumpel]

can we also talk about the expulsion of the germans from many countries after 1945 here in this thread?

 

[Rumpel]

austria-hungary had been a multi.national empire, where many languages were used

the new masters then expelled and. or … killed off most of their german speaking minorities

while the rest of the world did not take much notice

a very sad story …. a kind of genocide ….

and it happened elsewhere as well ……

 

[Rumpel]

maybe you have relations among those refugees?

 

[Rumpel]

it makes me think of the fate of some other nations …..

e.g. armenia

the parallel is the expulsion of armenians and germans from their homelands

 

[Rumpel]

btw ….

i am not talking of war criminals ….
just. of germans ….

 

[Rumpel]

you may look under wiki ….
expulsion of germans in 1944 and 1945 and later

 

[Rumpel]

nowadays one speaks of „ethnic cleansing“ …..

 

[NewfieMom]

The world prior to World War I was a world of aging empires. The world after World War I was entirely different with many countries asserting a new-found nationalism. New countries were created at the Paris Peace talks that never would have formed naturally. The Middle East, much of which had been part of the Ottoman Empire, was divided into mandates* assigned to the Allies. Turkey, having lost the vast Ottoman lands, became very nationalistic. So did the Jews and the Arabs, at the same time, in Palestine. Germany lost land to France, which had been humiliated by Germany in the Franco-Prussian War that ended in 1871. In the Franco-Prussian War France had lost land to Germany and wanted it back. Many books have been written about how World War, which affected not only the map of Europe but the fate of the people living there. Many books have also been written about the role of Germany's humiliation, with the huge reparations it had to pay affected rise of Hitler and the start of World War II.

*"In April 1920, however, at a peace conference held in San Remo, Italy, the Allies divided the former territories of the defeated Ottoman Empire. Of the Ottoman provinces in the Syrian region, the northern portion (Syria and Lebanon) was mandated to France, and the southern portion (Palestine) was mandated to Great Britain."

Palestine - British Mandate, Zionism, Conflict

Palestine - British Mandate, Zionism, Conflict: During World War I the great powers made a number of decisions concerning the future of Palestine without much regard to the wishes of the indigenous inhabitants. Palestinian Arabs, however, believed that Great Britain had promised them...

www.britannica.com

 

[Rumpel]

versaiiles meant ….

continuation of misery …. and another war in 1939 ….

 

[Rumpel]

after ww one many germans were expelled from their homes.
after world war two millions of germans were expelled from their homes in the regions where they had lived for centuries

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

it has been a most terrible thing


look at the fate of austria-hungary

once it was a mighty empire of many nations.
after world war one it was split of. ….. and many german speaking regions were oppressed by the new nations …..…..

and often cruelly oppressed ….

and many german speakers were expelled or killed ……

Nationalism is not patriotism, nor is it vice versa.
Patriotism is a constructive force.
Nationalism is destructive.
Patriotism springs from love for one's country whereas nationalism springs from hatred of others outside one's country.

 

[Rumpel]

Nationalism is not patriotism, nor is it vice versa.
Patriotism is a constructive force.
Nationalism is destructive.
Patriotism springs from love for one's country whereas nationalism springs from hatred of others outside one's country.

i do agree!

 

[Rumpel]

The world prior to World War I was a world of aging empires. The world after World War I was entirely different with many countries asserting a new-found nationalism. New countries were created at the Paris Peace talks that never would have formed naturally. The Middle East, much of which had been part of the Ottoman Empire, was divided into mandates* assigned to the Allies. Turkey, having lost the vast Ottoman lands, became very nationalistic. So did the Jews and the Arabs, at the same time, in Palestine. Germany lost land to France, which had been humiliated by Germany in the Franco-Prussian War that ended in 1871. In the Franco-Prussian War France had lost land to Germany and wanted it back. Many books have been written about how World War, which affected not only the map of Europe but the fate of the people living there. Many books have also been written about the role of Germany's humiliation, with the huge reparations it had to pay affected rise of Hitler and the start of World War II.

*"In April 1920, however, at a peace conference held in San Remo, Italy, the Allies divided the former territories of the defeated Ottoman Empire. Of the Ottoman provinces in the Syrian region, the northern portion (Syria and Lebanon) was mandated to France, and the southern portion (Palestine) was mandated to Great Britain."

Palestine - British Mandate, Zionism, Conflict

Palestine - British Mandate, Zionism, Conflict: During World War I the great powers made a number of decisions concerning the future of Palestine without much regard to the wishes of the indigenous inhabitants. Palestinian Arabs, however, believed that Great Britain had promised them...

www.britannica.com

View attachment 67470664

map of europe 1871 …..

those were. the days ….

if i could, i would have added ireland, poland, anf the three baltic states …

 

[Rumpel]

sometimes one wishes for ,alternative history,
but of course, you cannot change history ….

 

[Rumpel]

on the other hand ….. there were plans to reduce austria and germany to zero

then the german language would only exist in a part of switzerland and liechtenstein and in a luxembourg dialect ….

 

[Rumpel]

expulsion of germans ….

a most terrible form of ethnic cleansing ….

 

[Rumpel]

austria-hungary had been a multi.national empire, where many languages were used

the new masters then expelled and. or … killed off most of their german speaking minorities

while the rest of the world did not take much notice

horrifying …..

 

[Rumpel]

 

[Rumpel]

sorry that i cannot post links

if you google for volga germans you find what i am talking of …..

 

[Rumpel]

or if you google for the black sea germans .,,,,,

 

[Rumpel]

Though the numbers are hard to determine, it is estimated that roughly a third of the population of the Holy Roman Empire died as a result of violence, starvation or disease during the Thirty Years War. In some places, the population declined by more than half.

The Thirty Years’ War: The first modern war? - Humanitarian Law & Policy Blog

In 1618, the first in a series of conflicts broke out in Northern Europe, sparking three decades of violence, famine and disease that swept across the continent and decimated its population. What we now know as the Thirty Years’ War lasted until 1648. The ensuing intellectual upheaval ushered in...

blogs.icrc.org

I am not German, so I have no rose-colored nostalgia glasses for a time and place where nobles on horses could gallop by and lop my head off with their sword, or have their mercenaries burn my farm down and leave my family along with those of my neighbors to starve to death.

neither do feel nostalgia for those wars