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Germany in the time of the Holy Roman Empire - and Germany today

Chagos said:
Nope, German speakers (the Teutonic Knights) tembezzled the identity long before.

The original Prussians (Baltic) were more related to Latvians and Lithuanians.
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no no no!

we are speaking of BISMARCK here

by this time the meaning of the word had changed,
you can trust me taht i am informed about the old origins of the word
 
Rumpel said:
on a lighter side ….. . i might repeat that old tricky. question

was mozart german or. austrian?
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He was, at best, from the Habsburg realm. Just like Beethoven (born in Bonn)
 
Rumpel said:
no no no!

we are speaking of BISMARCK here

by this time the meaning of the word had changed,
you can trust me taht i am informed about the old origins of the word
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The meaning of the term was changed by Germanic invaders who embezzled it. Nothing to do with Bismarck.

The then acquired lands were (later in the 18th century) turned into a kingdom by the magnate of Brandenburg who could not make himself king of Brandenburg since that would have been denied by imperial principle.

Prussia was, however, not in the sphere of influence of the Habsburgs, so they couldn't really do anything about the forming of said title.

Before coming under the rule of Brandenburg Prussia was under the Polish crown, later ceded to Brandenburg (via inheritance), thus allowing Frederic the First to declare himself king of it.
 
Chagos said:
The meaning of the term was changed by Germanic invaders who embezzled it. Nothing to do with Bismarck.

The then acquired lands were (later in the 18th century) turned into a kingdom by the magnate of Brandenburg who could not make himself king of Brandenburg since that would have been denied by imperial principle.

Prussia was, however, not in the sphere of influence of the Habsburgs, so they couldn't really do anything about the forming of said title.

Before coming under the rule of Brandenburg Prussia was under the Polish crown, later ceded to Brandenburg (via inheritance), thus allowing Frederic the First to declare himself king of it.
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i know all this ….
 
Rumpel said:
more later ….
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l know about the historic meaning of prussia.
in bismarcks time a prusssian was just another sort of a german ….

and btw …..a prussian can also mean ….. any german north of the river Main …..
 
Rumpel said:
l know about the historic meaning of prussia.
in bismarcks time a prusssian was just another sort of a german ….

and btw …..a prussian can also mean ….. any german north of the river Main …..
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Typical Southern take :p
 
Chagos said:
Typical Southern take :p
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true …..

just as for northerners everything south of the main is bavaria ,,,,,if not even turkey ,,,,, :)
 
Rumpel said:
true …..

just as for northerners everything south of the main is bavaria ,,,,,if not even turkey ,,,,, :)
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and btw ….. we from baden hate those german prussians …. and for a good reason. …. ever since 1848/49 ….. maybe you know why ….
 
1848/49

the time of the baden revolution …. and elsewhere in germany

to do away with the monarchy …. and have a united democratic and peaceful country ….

in baden the revolution had already won …. but then the prussian army invaded …..


one of my ancestors had fought on the side of the democracy ….
 
Chagos said:
Nope, German speakers (the Teutonic Knights) tembezzled the identity long before.

The original Prussians (Baltic) were more related to Latvians and Lithuanians.
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i mean by the time we are spaeking of prussians were germans ….. in berlin and east of it etc etc ….
 
Chagos said:
He was, at best, from the Habsburg realm. Just like Beethoven (born in Bonn)
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mozart

he was from salzburg . which was not austrian at the time of his birth ….
 
Chagos said:
The meaning of the term was changed by Germanic invaders who embezzled it. Nothing to do with Bismarck.

The then acquired lands were (later in the 18th century) turned into a kingdom by the magnate of Brandenburg who could not make himself king of Brandenburg since that would have been denied by imperial principle.

Prussia was, however, not in the sphere of influence of the Habsburgs, so they couldn't really do anything about the forming of said title.

Before coming under the rule of Brandenburg Prussia was under the Polish crown, later ceded to Brandenburg (via inheritance), thus allowing Frederic the First to declare himself king of it.
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that frederic made subtle point by not styling himself king OF prussia, but king IN prussia
 
joluoto said:
Both, at that time Austrian was not really something separate from German. Anyone who spoke a German dialect was basically German, so Austrian would just be a type of German.
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yes …. germany then was not defined geographically, but linguistically

germany was there where people spoke german
 
Rumpel said:
and btw ….. we from baden hate those german prussians …. and for a good reason. …. ever since 1848/49 ….. maybe you know why ….
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I do indeed and can't blame anyone either
 
Rumpel said:
that frederic made subtle point by not styling himself king OF prussia, but king IN prussia
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Bit like Wilhelm Eins (William I) who refused to be named Kaiser von Deutschland but preferred to be Deutscher Kaiser (German Emperor rather than Emperor of Germany).

Going into the reasons for these kinds of semantics would explode this thread, so I won't.
 
Chagos said:
Bit like Wilhelm Eins (William I) who refused to be named Kaiser von Deutschland but preferred to be Deutscher Kaiser (German Emperor rather than Emperor of Germany).

Going into the reasons for these kinds of semantics would explode this thread, so I won't.
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it would explode this thread indeed

😎
 
Rumpel said:
bavaria, balkans, turkey, asia ….. all more or less the same!

😁😎😄
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I have it on good authority that Bavarians came into existence when the Roman legions, upon fleeing South across the Alps, left their foot-sore and the venereals behind.

Afterwards centuries of "Föhn" and "Starkbier" did the rest.:ROFLMAO:
 
Rumpel said:
like the bavarians we call the prussians often thus: Sau-Preußen ….
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Like when a Japanese tourist took an apple at a market without paying and the stall owner shouted at him "Saupreiss, japanischer".
 
Chagos said:
I have it on good authority that Bavarians came into existence when the Roman legions, upon fleeing South across the Alps, left their foot-sore and the venereals behind.

Afterwards centuries of "Föhn" and "Starkbier" did the rest.:ROFLMAO:
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nice legend …..

and why did they flee ….. because we Alemannen had crossed the Roman limes ..
 
Rumpel said:
nice legend …..

and why did they flee ….. because we Alemannen had crossed the Roman limes ..
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Nope, they simply couldn't take the Föhn and the Starkbier
 
Chagos said:
Like when a Japanese tourist took an apple at a market without paying and the stall owner shouted at him "Saupreiss, japanischer".
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yes, there may be even chinese sau-preissn …

::)
 
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