George Zimmerman's attorneys withdraw from Trayvon Martin case

[haymarket]

Again I challenge you to read:





you forgot to add: "an unarmed 17yr old, minding his own business in his own neighborhood." in that context it is a clear case for 2nd degree murder. the use of the word kill in this case is clearly synonymous with "murder".

How does you challenging anyone to read something change the words that were written from KILLED as it was and is, into MURDERED as you have twisted it wrongly into?

A thousand thousand readings does not alter that.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Your ignorance of the law is great. If it went down as he said, it would be 2nd degree murder.

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.



Voluntary manslaughter is commonly defined as an intentional killing in which the offender had no prior intent to kill, such as a killing that occurs in the "heat of passion." The circumstances leading to the killing must be the kind that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed; otherwise, the killing may be charged as a first-degree or second-degree murder.


the best you could hope for would be VM, however, this clearly does not fit.

Um, there is a "term of art" known as "imperfect self defense" that COULD apply, but since I am not an attorney in practice in Florida (nor, I assume, are you) I could be wrong. Probably best if you leave it to the district attorney.

Thank me very much., impdaddy:

OK.....weird.

Not seen by the media =/= "going underground".... more speculation, eh?

....or by his counsel, etc. I can't wait for Hannity to have to show for either a criminal or civil trial.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I am not avoiding anything. Manslaughter is a crime. Murder is a crime. If the police/DA dont believe you committed a crime they arent going to arrest you. Dont sit here and manipulate what I am saying.

I am not "manipulating" anything, that is what you and the Rev do when you put words in peoples mouths. You are still avoiding the point, your point.

The facts as we have them do not indicate that a crime was committed. The initial investigation did not conclude that a crime has been committed. Insisting on Zimmermans arrest means you are insisting that Zimmerman committed a crime. I am not sure how much more simple I can make that for you.

That was not the unanimous view of the officers at the scene, and you are still avoiding the point....because you cannot defend it any longer. I am willing to let it stand since you apparently are too. This new line of yours was not the point.

 

[Kreton]

I am not "manipulating" anything, that is what you and the Rev do when you put words in peoples mouths. You are still avoiding the point, your point.

That was not the unanimous view of the officers at the scene, and you are still avoiding the point....because you cannot defend it any longer. I am willing to let it stand since you apparently are too. This new line of yours was not the point.

Since you are the apparent expert on my point, by all means please enlighten me. What is my point? By all means I deserve to know what it is.

 

[poweRob]

My perception has been that those defending him are mostly saying, "Give the guy a fair trial, for heaven's sake." But, like another's signature, I could be wrong.

I'm sure most do. I've seen from the left those that want him to be put on trial and others that want to string him up from a nearby tree. I've seen from the right those that want him to maybe go on trial and others that want everyone to stop asking questions and can't wait to carve his face into Mount Rushmore already.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

How does you challenging anyone to read something change the words that were written from KILLED as it was and is, into MURDERED as you have twisted it wrongly into?

A thousand thousand readings does not alter that.

The Good Reverend can only lead a horse to water, it is up to the horse if he chooses to drink. :shrug:



You have to take out the context in order for your square peg to fit into your round hole.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Um, there is a "term of art" known as "imperfect self defense" that COULD apply, but since I am not an attorney in practice in Florida (nor, I assume, are you) I could be wrong. Probably best if you leave it to the district attorney.

FL law which is SYG, does not apply here.


(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.


how does that apply to:

Sad that you respect a guy who killed an unarmed 17yr old, minding his own business in his own neighborhood...

If this is how it went down, SYG and the "imperfect self defense rule" in FL as I quoted above, would not apply, this, would be 2nd degree murder.

...or by his counsel, etc. I can't wait for Hannity to have to show for either a criminal or civil trial.

ah yes, those who dissent from ones personal views should be jailed and held for trial. :roll:

 

[ric27]

I had to attend a lecture, so you got in ahead of me, but I was about to ask the same question. And to Ric27, my comments were not specifically directed at you - as a couple of people voiced similar sentiments - but if the cap fits ...

Don't ever underestimate someone because of age or appearance.

Hard to imagine how 6 kids- aged 11,12, 14, 15 16 and 17 (5 males, 1 female) robbed, assaulted and sodomized a 19 year old retarded kid (a mental capacity of a 10 yr old).

They beat him with shelving board and anally ****ed him with a car antenna, tree branches and other objects.and had great fun doing it

Don't ever underestimate *kids*.

 

[iguanaman]

"The evidence and testimony we have so far does not establish that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self defense. We don't have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense, at this point, with the evidence and testimony that we have,"
Fatal shooting of Florida teen turned over to state attorney - CNN.com​

I am really curious, what is it that you do not understand about the importance of such a statement?

Given that he shot an unarmed man it IS curious that the police would make such a judgement. That used to be frowned upon I think.
You would think that alone would be enough of a "dispute", and I beleive that is what the fuss is about.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

FL law which is SYG, does not apply here.


(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.


how does that apply to:




If this is how it went down, SYG and the "imperfect self defense rule" in FL as I quoted above, would not apply, this, would be 2nd degree murder.






ah yes, those who dissent from ones personal views should be jailed and held for trial. :roll:

"Corey announced earlier this week that she would not be convening a grand jury in the case. Experts familiar with Corey's background say she has a reputation of avoiding grand juries in cases in which they are unnecessary.Under Florida law, murder charges can only be issued by a grand jury. Zimmerman may face other charges in the shooting death, including manslaughter and assault."

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

"Corey announced earlier this week that she would not be convening a grand jury in the case. Experts familiar with Corey's background say she has a reputation of avoiding grand juries in cases in which they are unnecessary.Under Florida law, murder charges can only be issued by a grand jury. Zimmerman may face other charges in the shooting death, including manslaughter and assault."

Your quote is inaccurate. 1st degree requires a grand jury, 2nd degree does not.


Second Degree Murder - Law Firm Arnold Law Firm, LLC Attorneys Jacksonville, Florida



But you are being dishonest. We were talking about JasonI's "killing" commentary, I never spoke to what the prosecutor would or would not do in this case, as JasonI's contention, isn't what happened, and if if did, that would have been murder.


Nice try though... impdaddy:

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Your quote is inaccurate. 1st degree requires a grand jury, 2nd degree does not.


Second Degree Murder - Law Firm Arnold Law Firm, LLC Attorneys Jacksonville, Florida



But you are being dishonest. We were talking about JasonI's "killing" commentary, I never spoke to what the prosecutor would or would not do in this case, as JasonI's contention, isn't what happened, and if if did, that would have been murder.


Nice try though... impdaddy:

Right...I am being dishonest, when it was you putting the word "murder" into Jason's mouth and then proceeded to claim that murder was the only conclusion to draw from his statements and the only charge that could be brought.

This whole conversation has gotten so stupid, you just don't know when to stop.

I'm done.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Right...I am being dishonest, when it was you putting the word "murder" into Jason's mouth and then proceeded to claim that murder was the only conclusion to draw from his statements and the only charge that could be brought.

You just tried to switch it from Jason to I was trying to say that the prosecution couldn't come up with murder charges.... dishonest.

How jason stated it, it would be legally murder, he lied and said he didn't come to a conclusion, I exposed this.

You keep hammering away, trying to weasle your way out of accepting fact. That's your perrogative.

This whole conversation has gotten so stupid, you just don't know when to stop.

I'm done.

I accept your concession and wish you a wonderful day.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

You just tried to switch it from Jason to I was trying to say that the prosecution couldn't come up with murder charges.... dishonest.

Lie.

How jason stated it, it would be legally murder, he lied and said he didn't come to a conclusion, I exposed this.

Lie.

You keep hammering away, trying to weasle your way out of accepting fact. That's your perrogative.

No facts, another lie.

I accept your concession and wish you a wonderful day.

Not a concession, I will come back if you lie about my statements.

 

[MaggieD]

Just FYI to all:

CBS/AP) CBS News has confirmed that neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman will be charged in the February shooting death of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla. State Attorney Angela Corey is scheduled to hold a news conference at 6 p.m. Wednesday at the state attorney's office in Jacksonville, Florida related to the Martin investigation.

Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin case - CBS News

I also heard on the radio that Zimmerman was being arrested this afternoon . . . not sure about that, though. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zimmerman himself is relieved in that he finally knows what he's up against.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Just FYI to all:



Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin case - CBS News

I also heard on the radio that Zimmerman was being arrested this afternoon . . . not sure about that, though. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zimmerman himself is relieved in that he finally knows what he's up against.

****'s already hit the fan in another thread :lol::

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-mainstream-media/123470-zimmerman-charged.html

 

[SheWolf]

I doubt that. Anything that he says at this point is not going to be believed. He's already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion.

And that's what his lawyers keep saying. I am tired of his lawyers painting him out to be a victim and incapable of a fair trial, misjudged, etc. His lawyers have given the public more information about Zimmerman than Zimmerman has himself. His lawyers should be giving their client the message that they will ensure he gets a fair trial. I'd image that his lawyers doom and gloom attitude, the public portrait they have created of him, and public handling of his case, up until they dropped him, probably has a lot to do with his mental state at this point. I can't see his lawyers being emotionally supportive or encouraging towards him in anyway.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Lie.

Lie.

No facts, another lie.






Not a concession, I will come back if you lie about my statements.

Lol @ "gimmiesometruth"


Thanks for your conscession.

 

[SheWolf]

It takes speculation and faux outrage to paint him as a guilty person...the facts available to us so far don't do that.

The believability of his own story and lack of evidence of some of his lawyer's claims also play a role. Yes, speculation is involved, but thinking he is telling the 100% is also speculation. If he flees, he looks guilty without a doubt.

 

[SheWolf]

Witnesses support this.

And some witnesses don't...

 

[SheWolf]

I cannot help but feel some sympathy for George Zimmerman, as I do not believe he intended Killing the 17 year old. I believe he made some very unwise decisions, in the heat of the moment, that evening, which had tragic consequences. I hope that he is brought to justice, and that he receives justice (not an actual or legal lynching). I think competent council could argue that, while it was obviously not so in reality, George Zimmerman felt he was in serious danger, and used his gun to extricate himself from that perceived danger.

However, given what information we have, I cannot accept in any form that Zimmerman's actions that evening were courageous or unselfish in any way, nor can I accept that Martin (even assuming he struck the first blow,) contributed to his own death.

For those who claim they respect and admire Zimmerman for his actions in killing Martin, and for those who continue to endeavour to paint Martin as a young thug whose death serves society well, I have nothing but disdain. A young life has been lost unnecessarily, and to justify or celebrate that fact is repugnant to any civilised person.

I agree with your post 100%. I feel kind of bad for Zimmerman, because I don't think he intended to create this mess. I think his intentions were good, but he probably ****ed up that night. His actions right now don't reflect a person who is confident all the evidence is on his side or his conscious is clean. I think Z would do himself a favor to tell the truth and tell his side, and while this is tragic for him because he had goals, a pursuing a college education, etc. It's also tragic for Trayvon's family. His parents are probably also losing weight and sleep, and under horrendous stress and taking medication to cope. They buried their son. They want answers, and any parent would.

 

[SheWolf]

Just FYI to all:



Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin case - CBS News

I also heard on the radio that Zimmerman was being arrested this afternoon . . . not sure about that, though. I'd bet dollars to donuts that Zimmerman himself is relieved in that he finally knows what he's up against.

Corey’s office released a statement saying it would hold a news conference “to release new information regarding the Trayvon Martin shooting death investigation” at 6 p.m. Wednesday in Jacksonville, Fla.

George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says - The Washington Post

New evidence coming Wednesday. I hope the Police Dept didn't muck up the investigation and not collect evidence or photos of the scene. That happened to a local family here in a murder trial, and they ended up suing the PD for millions of dollars.

 

[poweRob]

I agree with your post 100%. I feel kind of bad for Zimmerman, because I don't think he intended to create this mess. I think his intentions were good, but he probably ****ed up that night. His actions right now don't reflect a person who is confident all the evidence is on his side or his conscious is clean. I think Z would do himself a favor to tell the truth and tell his side, and while this is tragic for him because he had goals, a pursuing a college education, etc. It's also tragic for Trayvon's family. His parents are probably also losing weight and sleep, and under horrendous stress and taking medication to cope. They buried their son. They want answers, and any parent would.

I'm telling you, it's going to boil down to Zimmerman was hyped up on adrenaline and fear, was holding the gun with his finger on the trigger and due to the adrenaline didn't realize he was squeezing the trigger that hard.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Those are some of my thoughts on the matter as well. Of course, I've written them before as well so I'm on the same merry-go-round!

But I also like to note that in the situation you describe, Zimmerman initiated the escalation, ignored the request by 911 to descalate, and was not trained for what he was attempting to do. As such, Zimmerman chose to put Martin's life at risk, and ultimately killed him as a result. Zimmerman was, based on the evidence, a threat to that neighborhood, he pursued and killed an unarmed teen. I would not feel my family is safe in a neighborhood patrolled by someone like Zimmerman.

If you drive drunk and entirely accidentally hit someone you get slammed. This guy was NOT intoxicated, he rationally chose to put Martin at risk, and then did the deed. Is this better or worse than negligent homicide? Is this behavior something we want to encourage via legal safe zones? The national debate goes beyond the specific case, goes beyond Zimmermans guilt or innocence, and that people cry about having such a national debate is silly IMO.

This is not accurate at all. There is no evidence that Zimmerman put Martins life at risk.

When someone is following me, tailing me, while carrying a pistol, I think that is increasing the risk of a bad outcome, an increase in the chances of either person's life being affected negatively. That is "putting someones life at risk".

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I feel kind of bad for Zimmerman, because I don't think he intended to create this mess.

Me too.
There's not really a bad guy in this story, afaict.
We really, really, really, really want there to be a good guy and a bad guy, but I think we have just two guys and a sudden, unfortunate situation.

His actions right now don't reflect a person who is confident all the evidence is on his side or his conscious is clean.

They are not what I would expect. But that may speak more toward the quality of my expectations and imagination than toward Z's state of mind.

I think Z would do himself a favor to tell the truth and tell his side, and while this is tragic for him because he had goals, a pursuing a college education, etc. It's also tragic for Trayvon's family. His parents are probably also losing weight and sleep, and under horrendous stress and taking medication to cope. They buried their son. They want answers, and any parent would.

I have never been in Zs situation. But I have been in situations where I made a big mistake. As I have gotten older, I have come to realize more and more the benefits of honesty. If you can own up to something big, people will believe you all the more from that point on. And it lets things go on with getting settled and sorted. It's just simpler.