• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Gangster Government Stifles Criticism of Obamacare

ptif219

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
13,156
Reaction score
1,038
Location
melbourne florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
It appears free speech and criticism of the president and his policies are gone. So much for the constitution


Townhall - Gangster Government Stifles Criticism of Obamacare


"There will be zero tolerance for this type of misinformation and unjustified rate increases."

That sounds like a stern headmistress dressing down some sophomores who have been misbehaving. But it's actually from a letter sent Thursday from Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to Karen Ignagni, president of America's Health Insurance Plans -- the chief lobbyist for private health insurance companies.

Sebelius objects to claims by health insurers that they are raising premiums because of increased costs imposed by the Obamacare law passed by Congress last March.
 

Councilman

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
4,454
Reaction score
1,654
Location
Riverside, County, CA.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Another portion of this story says:
"Congress shall make no law," reads the First Amendment, "abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press."

Sebelius' approach is different: "zero tolerance" for dissent.
This sounds like a little something I warned about over a year ago here, that being the way Obama has been following in the same direction as his pal Hugo Chavez with the take over of large portions of the economy and businesses in Venezuela.

Now we await Obama's radicals at the FCC trying to remove ownership of Radio stations from Conservative control.

Listen to Obama's Diversity Czar praise Chavez in his own words: http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF2C235fD7o&NR=1

If you take the time to watch this take a look at some of the other videos you will see on this Youtube page a watch a few if you are on of those who think Conservatives and all Tea Part backers are nuts.

Beware of false flag operations to come.

Here is a very short History lesson for you. Mind I am not calling Obama Hitler,

"Adolf Hitler, the new Chancellor of Germany, had no intention of abiding by the rules of democracy. He intended only to use those rules to legally establish himself as dictator as quickly as possible then begin the Nazi revolution.

Even before he was sworn in, he was at work to accomplish that goal by demanding new elections. While Hindenburg waited impatiently in another room, Hitler argued with conservative leader Hugenberg, who vehemently opposed the idea. Hitler's plan was to establish a majority of elected Nazis in the Reichstag which would become a rubber stamp, passing whatever laws he desired while making it all perfectly legal.

Göring and Goebbels, with Hitler's approval, then hatched a plan to cause panic by burning the Reichstag building and blaming the Communists. The Reichstag was the building in Berlin where the elected members of the republic met to conduct the daily business of government."
I don't make this stuff up.
 

Barbbtx

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
8,467
Reaction score
1,993
Location
W'Ford TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
It appears free speech and criticism of the president and his policies are gone. So much for the constitution


Townhall - Gangster Government Stifles Criticism of Obamacare


"There will be zero tolerance for this type of misinformation and unjustified rate increases."

That sounds like a stern headmistress dressing down some sophomores who have been misbehaving. But it's actually from a letter sent Thursday from Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to Karen Ignagni, president of America's Health Insurance Plans -- the chief lobbyist for private health insurance companies.

Sebelius objects to claims by health insurers that they are raising premiums because of increased costs imposed by the Obamacare law passed by Congress last March.
They should have read the bill. Who knows how much of our freedoms have been taken away by the passage of that piece of crap.
From your link

Sebelius also argues that "any premium increases will be moderated by out-of-pocket savings resulting from the law." But she's pretty vague about the numbers -- "up to $1 billion in 2013." Anyone who watches TV ads knows that "up to" can mean zero.

As Time magazine's Karen Pickert points out, Sebelius ignores the fact that individual insurance plans cover different types of populations. So that government and "some" industry and academic experts think the new law will justify increases averaging 1 percent or 2 percent, they could justify much larger increases for certain plans.

Or as Ignagni, the recipient of the letter, says, "It's a basic law of economics that additional benefits incur additional costs."

But Sebelius has "zero tolerance" for that kind of thing. She promises to issue regulations to require "state or federal review of all potentially unreasonable rate increases" (which would presumably mean all rate increases).

And there's a threat. "We will also keep track of insurers with a record of unjustified rate increases: those plans may be excluded from health insurance Exchanges in 2014."

That's a significant date, the first year in which state insurance exchanges are slated to get a monopoly on the issuance of individual health insurance policies. Sebelius is threatening to put health insurers out of business in a substantial portion of the market if they state that Obamacare is boosting their costs
 

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I think wetting our pants and jumping at shadows and misinformation is unseemly. Perhaps we should try dealing in facts and seeking truth instead of these scare tactics those who oppose health care reform use all too often. Let's toughen up and try to deal with the truth for a change.

;)



:lamo :neener
 

Wiseone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,177
Reaction score
7,550
Location
Ft. Campbell, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Do you guys really see this as a violation of someone's 1st Amendment rights? Thats ridiculous, all this is CLEARLY just this secretary informing a lobbying group that their efforts to do whatever they are doing are going to be responded to by her organization. As in, if this lobby group puts out something Heath and Human Services disagrees with, they will write or somehow deliver a response to both that lobby group and the public.

You all are acting like a SWAT team is going to storm in and arrest this lobbyist for speaking against the government and shut down her operation. Here's a newflash, the government has the right to respond to criticism, make public statements, and correspond with individuals. There's no violation of her 1st amendment.

Do you people even understand what "abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press" even means? The key word is "abridging" there's clearly no "abridging" going on here, and there's certainly no laws being made, but somehow its still a violation of the 1st amendment?
 

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Do you guys really see this as a violation of someone's 1st Amendment rights? Thats ridiculous, all this is CLEARLY just this secretary informing a lobbying group that their efforts to do whatever they are doing are going to be responded to by her organization. As in, if this lobby group puts out something Heath and Human Services disagrees with, they will write or somehow deliver a response to both that lobby group and the public.

You all are acting like a SWAT team is going to storm in and arrest this lobbyist for speaking against the government and shut down her operation. Here's a newflash, the government has the right to respond to criticism, make public statements, and correspond with individuals. There's no violation of her 1st amendment.

Do you people even understand what "abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press" even means? The key word is "abridging" there's clearly no "abridging" going on here, and there's certainly no laws being made, but somehow its still a violation of the 1st amendment?
Shhhhh. . . . now don't try and stop a good fear mongering effort with anything like reasoning or facts. ;) :neener
 

Wiseone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,177
Reaction score
7,550
Location
Ft. Campbell, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Shhhhh. . . . now don't try and stop a good fear mongering effort with anything like reasoning or facts. ;) :neener
This is insanity, I'm afraid to mock it as much as it deserves because I can't believe something can be so rediculous and out of touch with reality. There has to be something I'm missing in the OP's point because nothing can be that stupid.
 

LaMidRighter

Klattu Verata Nicto
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
30,534
Reaction score
10,682
Location
Louisiana
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Do you guys really see this as a violation of someone's 1st Amendment rights? Thats ridiculous, all this is CLEARLY just this secretary informing a lobbying group that their efforts to do whatever they are doing are going to be responded to by her organization. As in, if this lobby group puts out something Heath and Human Services disagrees with, they will write or somehow deliver a response to both that lobby group and the public.
Wrong! Oh so wrong. She, meaning the airhead POS Sebelius is telling insurance companies that they will be monetarily penalized for stating that their costs will go up. The companies are not lying, it is economic reality. The NHHS secretary has falsely accused them of lying and is threatening them with backdoor punishments, that is a direct violation of the first amendment and frankly the cow should be in prison for it. These are not threats directed at lobbying groups, they are threats directed at businesses.

You all are acting like a SWAT team is going to storm in and arrest this lobbyist for speaking against the government and shut down her operation. Here's a newflash, the government has the right to respond to criticism, make public statements, and correspond with individuals. There's no violation of her 1st amendment.
The government does not have the right to penalize people for speaking their minds......especially when they are speaking the truth, this is a direct violation of the first and frankly should not be tolerated. I would love to see the bitch directly sued in court over this.

Do you people even understand what "abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press" even means? The key word is "abridging" there's clearly no "abridging" going on here, and there's certainly no laws being made, but somehow its still a violation of the 1st amendment?
I love the "you people" argument here. The question is do you understand abridgement or infringement of speech? Let me explain this; the cow is telling people IF they speak about the bad things in Obamacare THEN they will suffer consequences, THAT is an infringement. As well, I am an insurance professional, maybe I should explain something, it is an ethical responsibility of mine to describe policy in full including the benefits and the negatives, these companies are speaking directly to the negatives as it is affecting the bottom line, if the moron in the NHHS doesn't like it then too ****ing bad and I hope she chokes on it.
 

ptif219

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
13,156
Reaction score
1,038
Location
melbourne florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative

Wiseone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,177
Reaction score
7,550
Location
Ft. Campbell, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

ptif219

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
13,156
Reaction score
1,038
Location
melbourne florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Yup its called politics. And we all should be trying as individuals and members of political parties, if one is a member of a political party, to rise above this kind of misinformation and dirty tactics.
What misinformation?
 

apdst

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
131,687
Reaction score
30,486
Location
Bagdad, La.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Yup its called politics. And we all should be trying as individuals and members of political parties, if one is a member of a political party, to rise above this kind of misinformation and dirty tactics.
Ok, by all means, using actual text from the bill, tell us the facts. We can't wait to benefit from your vast knowledge of the Obamacare bill.
 

Wiseone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,177
Reaction score
7,550
Location
Ft. Campbell, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Ok, by all means, using actual text from the bill, tell us the facts. We can't wait to benefit from your vast knowledge of the Obamacare bill.
I honestly dont know much about the specifics of that bill or what its long term impact will be, which is why I almost never talk about healthcare on these forums or anywhere in life for the most part. Its not a subject I feel confident enough on with my knowledge basis to talk about.

However, that shouldnt mean anyone attempting to discuss healthcare, which isn't the point of this topic, or any other subject shouldnt use facts.
 

Councilman

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
4,454
Reaction score
1,654
Location
Riverside, County, CA.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I think wetting our pants and jumping at shadows and misinformation is unseemly. Perhaps we should try dealing in facts and seeking truth instead of these scare tactics those who oppose health care reform use all too often. Let's toughen up and try to deal with the truth for a change.

;)



:lamo :neener

The up coming disaster loosely called health care reform is going to help Obama kill the economy and does nothing reduce the cost of anything. Have anyone noticed that insurance costs just went up almost across the board.
 

Boo Radley

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
37,066
Reaction score
7,028
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The up coming disaster loosely called health care reform is going to help Obama kill the economy and does nothing reduce the cost of anything. Have anyone noticed that insurance costs just went up almost across the board.
As it is not a finished work yet, that's not only premature, but rather hyperbolic. It is itself a fearmongering scare tactic. it is not yet perfect, but cost were going up and would continue to go up withut reform, and all with less people having actual access to healthcare. It's time to stop the silly fear mongering, and start trying to make it better. The fact is reform was needed. And without one step, there would never be a second step. So, either be part of the solution, or get the hell out of the way.

;)
 

mikeey

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2005
Messages
776
Reaction score
93
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Wiseone well said m8 1st Amendment rights belongs to the people and so say all of us,in Scotland,i wish we had that.

god bless u m8.

mikeey
 

Wiseone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,177
Reaction score
7,550
Location
Ft. Campbell, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
We're off topic, we're trying to figure out how this person's 1st amendment rights were violated. Dont let the topic creator and supports get away without defending that argument.
 

ptif219

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
13,156
Reaction score
1,038
Location
melbourne florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
As it is not a finished work yet, that's not only premature, but rather hyperbolic. It is itself a fearmongering scare tactic. it is not yet perfect, but cost were going up and would continue to go up withut reform, and all with less people having actual access to healthcare. It's time to stop the silly fear mongering, and start trying to make it better. The fact is reform was needed. And without one step, there would never be a second step. So, either be part of the solution, or get the hell out of the way.

;)
Not Finished? The dems passed it and Obama signed it that makes it law. How much more finished do you want?
 

LaMidRighter

Klattu Verata Nicto
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
30,534
Reaction score
10,682
Location
Louisiana
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
There's no first amendment violation, I thought that was clear.
There is absolutely a first violation as I have explained in full. Companies are being strongarmed by having their ability to conduct business threatened by government action for speaking negatively(and truthfully) about their cost increases, the threats are specifically targeting speech. You have not proven clearly or otherwise how your assertion this isn't a first amendment violation is correct.

For a right to be violated, and let me be clear; there does not have to be a threat of immenent force but simply any kind of action or threat which restricts the ability to exercise said right. In other words, a government official does not have to send out the military, SWAT, police, or stormtroopers to hold a gun to someone's head and say "shut up" all they have to do is make it uncomfortable to speak one's mind and they have indeed infringed upon the first amendment. The only way this idiot NHHS head would have a defensible position is if she could prove there was a lie........good luck with that as economic reality does not align with her fantasy.

Again, the NHHS secretary is not only a liar but a first amendment violating thug.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom