Gaddafi

[Lord of Planar]

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/65479.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Libya_under_Muammar_Gaddafi

Libyan Training Camps

That "tiny" list is not only just a partial one, it also is responsible for thousands of deaths. Not to mention as a communist you really have no room to point the finger vis-a-vis supporting terrorism

You know, that information is one sided, poorly sourced, and doesn't talk about any shame of the US and other countries.

 

[Tigerace117]

You know, that information is one sided, poorly sourced, and doesn't talk about any shame of the US and other countries.

Because "the shame" of the US and other countries has nothing to do with Gaddafi. Imagine if at Nuremberg an SS general stood up and proclaimed that because of what America and Britain had done in their past, not only was everything the Nazi Party done a-ok but they were the ****ing good guys.

 

[dimensionallava]

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/65479.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Libya_under_Muammar_Gaddafi

Libyan Training Camps

That "tiny" list is not only just a partial one, it also is responsible for thousands of deaths. Not to mention as a communist you really have no room to point the finger vis-a-vis supporting terrorism

as a capitalist neither do you

almost all of them are left wing groups some not even terrorists, i know fox news likes whine about them but the black panthers aren't a terrorist organization.

 

[Tigerace117]

as a capitalist neither do you

almost all of them are left wing groups some not even terrorists, i know fox news likes whine about them but the black panthers aren't a terrorist organization.

The Black Panthers shot police and blew **** up. That's terrorist activity. They weren't as powerful as some other groups but they certainly aren't the good guys.

And yes. Gaddafi was left wing, which is why so many people are willing to ignore the atrocities he committed.

 

[TheGoverness]

The Black Panthers shot police and blew **** up. That's terrorist activity. They weren't as powerful as some other groups but they certainly aren't the good guys.

Yep, the Black Panthers have been involved in terrorist activity, just like many of those right-wing militia groups as well.

 

[dimensionallava]

The Black Panthers shot police and blew **** up. That's terrorist activity. They weren't as powerful as some other groups but they certainly aren't the good guys.

And yes. Gaddafi was left wing, which is why so many people are willing to ignore the atrocities he committed.

the us government murdered its own people, including the black panthers

 

[Tigerace117]

Yep, the Black Panthers have been involved in terrorist activity, just like many of those right-wing militia groups as well.

Yeah, but the right wingers didn't get guns and training from the Libyan state.

But not the point---he's claiming they weren't involved

 

[Tigerace117]

the us government murdered its own people, including the black panthers

Guess what the communist regimes did and continue to do? Holdomar, Great Purges, Tiamennan Square?

None of that justifies terrorism

 

[TheGoverness]

Yeah, but the right wingers didn't get guns and training from the Libyan state.

But not the point---he's claiming they weren't involved

Doesn't matter who they got guns from: there still terrorists by definition.

 

[dimensionallava]

Guess what the communist regimes did and continue to do? Holdomar, Great Purges, Tiamennan Square?

None of that justifies terrorism

do you want me to start listing all crimes capitalist have ever committed? and continue still today? should we start before or after the north atlantic slave trade?

 

[Tigerace117]

Doesn't matter who they got guns from: there still terrorists by definition.

do you want me to start listing all crimes capitalist have ever committed? and continue still today? should we start before or after the north atlantic slave trade?

True, but we're specifically talking about Gaddafi, not the militias.

And guess who banned the slave trade?

Versus continually bad behavior to this day.

 

[Medusa]

That's just flat out hysterical. You actually believe a dicatator like Gaddafi when he says "terrorists" are invading? In his worldview, "terrorists" we're anyone who disagreed with him. On anything.

Here's a partial list of terrorist or militiant to groups which received arms and funding from Libya:

Action Directe
ETA
The Freedom Party of Austria
The Red Army Faction
The Provisonal Irish Republican Army
Red Brigades
Abu Nidal
Sandinista National Liberation Front
Moro National Liberation Front
MPLA
Polisario Front
National Liberation Front of Liberia
Tupamaros
Free Aceh Movement
Black Septemeber
The Japanese Red Army
Radicals within the already radical wing of the Black Panther Party and Nation of Islam
M-19
Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia
Eriterian Liberation Front
Milosevic loyalists

He also tried(and failed miserably) to set up a puppet state in Chad, had his diplomats conduct acts of terrorism and generally acted like an asshole. He was supported by the Soviets, not "The West".

any evidence ?

 

[Tigerace117]

any evidence ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism

How Libya Got Off the List - Council on Foreign Relations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Libya_under_Muammar_Gaddafi#Notes

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/comment/2015/9/22/gaddafi-and-the-iras-explosive-relationship

Posted some other links further along.....

The man supported terror groups from around the world

 

[Hawkeye10]

HE had some good ideas, was pretty decent to his people considering how hard it is to keep the country together, and did a lot to stay chill with the powers in the West but they were fools and turned on him. I am impressed that almost till the end he believed that a deal was a deal (giving up nukes, he deal with the West), there was certainly a sane decent guy in there someplace, this was not a Saddam. He was also fairly competent at leadership, much more so than Assad. He was in most every way a better leader than Erdoğan.

 

[sKiTzo]

Gaddaffi was a bastard...
You dont create a democracy via violent overthrow.. I cant remember any situation where it has worked. Democracy has to be grown from within..

Gaddafi led a bloodless coup to overthrow the king. That means non-violent.

 

[Tigerace117]

Gaddafi led a bloodless coup to overthrow the king. That means non-violent.

Tell that to the poor ****ing Tuaregs.

 

[sKiTzo]

Tell that to the poor ****ing Tuaregs.

A bloodless coup is a bloodless coup; I don't think I need to tell them anything since they were the poorest country in Africa at the time and were the richest when Gaddafi was murdered.

 

[Tigerace117]

A bloodless coup is a bloodless coup; I don't think I need to tell them anything since they were the poorest country in Africa at the time and were the richest when Gaddafi was murdered.

The Tuaregs don't have their own country, so I don't see how they could be the richest one in Africa.

Not to mention the fact that in return for what prosperity Libya did gain, they effectively isolated themselves from the Western world, which turned out to be a bad idea when the USSR fell

 

[Lord of Planar]

Because "the shame" of the US and other countries has nothing to do with Gaddafi. Imagine if at Nuremberg an SS general stood up and proclaimed that because of what America and Britain had done in their past, not only was everything the Nazi Party done a-ok but they were the ****ing good guys.

Not the same thing. Qaddafi did some bad things, but nothing like the Nazis. Supplying arms was no different to the US supplying arms. We are just as guilty as him. Support of leaders opposing our views is no more criminal than the way we have supported leaders.

If you wish to ignore the US and other nations low points, and only see his, it's easy to rationalize the criminal actions we have taken as a nation.

Funny how so few people are willing to seek the truth.

I suggest you seek the truth. Qaddafi was the best thing that ever happened to Libya. His removal will have repercussions for several decades.

 

[Lord of Planar]

And yes. Gaddafi was left wing, which is why so many people are willing to ignore the atrocities he committed.

None of those atrocities are proven.

Link please!

 

[Lord of Planar]

any evidence ?

No more than suspicions and rumor.

 

[Lord of Planar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_terrorism

How Libya Got Off the List - Council on Foreign Relations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Libya_under_Muammar_Gaddafi#Notes

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/comment/2015/9/22/gaddafi-and-the-iras-explosive-relationship

Posted some other links further along.....

The man supported terror groups from around the world

So the writers of those sources claim. Any real evidence? How often are people wrong?

Wikipedia is not a source used by people with integrity to attempt to prove anything. It is wrong too many times, and says whatever the public author claims. If you really wish to debate well, you will look at the source links Wiki uses, and use them

 

[Tigerace117]

Not the same thing. Qaddafi did some bad things, but nothing like the Nazis. Supplying arms was no different to the US supplying arms. We are just as guilty as him. Support of leaders opposing our views is no more criminal than the way we have supported leaders.

If you wish to ignore the US and other nations low points, and only see his, it's easy to rationalize the criminal actions we have taken as a nation.

Funny how so few people are willing to seek the truth.

I suggest you seek the truth. Qaddafi was the best thing that ever happened to Libya. His removal will have repercussions for several decades.

None of those atrocities are proven.

Link please!

I've already given a half a dozen links saying, right out there in black and white, that Gaddafi supplied these terrorist groups.

Your argument is, essentially, well, the US supported dicatators, so Gaddafi=Good. Which is nonsensical. But yeah. Apparently it's a-ok to support terror groups from South Africa to Germany to Latin America because, somehow, it's the United States' fault.

The only people who actually think Gaddafi was the best thing to ever happen to Libya are those who never actually had to live under him.

 

[Lord of Planar]

I've already given a half a dozen links saying, right out there in black and white, that Gaddafi supplied these terrorist groups.

Your argument is, essentially, well, the US supported dicatators, so Gaddafi=Good. Which is nonsensical. But yeah. Apparently it's a-ok to support terror groups from South Africa to Germany to Latin America because, somehow, it's the United States' fault.

The only people who actually think Gaddafi was the best thing to ever happen to Libya are those who never actually had to live under him.

Those links prove nothing, especially Wiki!

Step up your game or stop wasting our time please.

You have no proof but journalists who claim things that have no proof.

Hearsay.

Can you say "hearsay?"

What about all the good he did in Libya?

 

[Tigerace117]

Those links prove nothing, especially Wiki!

Step up your game or stop wasting our time please.

You have no proof but journalists who claim things that have no proof.

Hearsay.

Can you say "hearsay?"

What about all the good he did in Libya?

So you think the State Department bases its reports on hearsay and innuendo?

Joe Cahill is full of ****, according to you? Other IRA men who trained and went to Libya are full of ****?

If you were part of the top ten percent who were most dedicated to supporting Gaddafi's regime, you could have an ok life. But heaven forbid you defect or not support him, because you'd end up dead.

Veteran IRA gunrunner Joe Cahill tells his story - CSMonitor.com

BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Libya's 30-year link to the IRA

Inside The Ira - Weapons & Technology | The Ira & Sinn Fein | FRONTLINE | PBS