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Gaddafi

sKiTzo

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This isn't a current issue. I''m just wondering what your final take is on Gaddafi.
 

joG

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This isn't a current issue. I''m just wondering what your final take is on Gaddafi.

Not current. That dictator isn't even toast anymore. Good riddance, too. The Europeans made a mess of the aftermath and totally shunned responsibility though. So yes. It's good to knock off mass murderers, but the global community must then ensure security and guarantee protection of the populations durring an extended period.
 

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This isn't a current issue. I''m just wondering what your final take is on Gaddafi.

hard to say whether a 40 year rule like qaddafis was a good or a bad thing, he was a socialist like gamal nasser, he beleived in arab national socialism similair to assad and saddam. basically religous conservatism combined with socialist economic policy but Libya is a collapsed state from the ottoman empire with only a population of 6 million. And quite frankly between the ottomans, fascist italy, the short lived kingdom of libya, and its state of virtual anarchy today, qaddafi was the best thing that ever happened to Libya. The country is so small, that the coup that brought qaddafi into power was completely bloodless.
 

Abbazorkzog

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The respect I have for international law would have preferred him tried and executed by the ICC. The UK's and US's mess, as well as other nations involved, allowed him to escape his due process.
 

PeteEU

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Would rather have left him in place and power. He would have kept the flow of illegals out of Europe and we would not have a broken nation across the med from Italy.
 

Medusa

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This isn't a current issue. I''m just wondering what your final take is on Gaddafi.

like the other dictators ,he first became a friend of the West ,then he was overthrown when he is not necessary anymore

note : I cant see the poll
 

OrphanSlug

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This isn't a current issue. I''m just wondering what your final take is on Gaddafi.

I disagree, it is a current issue as there is still fallout from his time.

Gaddafi is nothing more than another in a long line of ideological dictators that presented other nations with a catch-22. Leaving Gaddafi's opposition to dealing with a coup entirely on their own might have ended very much differently than it did with the help of NATO no-fly zones, airstrikes, and various interventions. Ultimately it was all the same thing. Leaving a dictator in power would have had a set of consequences, just as helping in his removal has had alternate consequences Libya is still dealing with today.

I doubt the history books will not be too kind when writing about Gaddafi. For all of his attempts at socialism for his nation, it was matched with something in relation to human rights abuses. For all of his "gifts" to the populace in the form of an electrical grid paid for by the State, or the largest irrigation project on that continent leading to agricultural efforts, or that education and healthcare was paid for by the State it would be matched with the realization that at the time of his death his net worth was estimated in the $70 billion range (some say closer to $200 billion stashed all over the globe.) As most dictators do he extracted wealth, capitalized on power, and hid it from his own nation.

My take is he is nothing more than a wealthy brutal dictator with questionable ties to various nations and who's removal caused other consequences we still see today. Libya today is in chaos. They have at least 2 opposition governments in a more or less de facto civil war, the economy is in terrible shape, plenty of the nation is no longer on that electrical grid, other basic utility infrastructure is destroyed or decayed, oil is still a problem, and the nation overall is more home to terrorism now than it was under Gaddafi.

Unsure if NATO should have gotten involved helping Gaddafi's opposition, and the history books may question that as well.
 

_Sal

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hard to say whether a 40 year rule like qaddafis was a good or a bad thing, he was a socialist like gamal nasser, he beleived in arab national socialism similair to assad and saddam. basically religous conservatism combined with socialist economic policy but Libya is a collapsed state from the ottoman empire with only a population of 6 million. And quite frankly between the ottomans, fascist italy, the short lived kingdom of libya, and its state of virtual anarchy today, qaddafi was the best thing that ever happened to Libya. The country is so small, that the coup that brought qaddafi into power was completely bloodless.
not if you ask their women whom he would call in line up and choose from...or the burqa's he made them wear....or ask the business owners how much they liked him

psychopathic leader who took over while their king was off on the island

nightmare regime
 

DaveFagan

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I think Qaddaffi did a fine job of taking care of Libyans and that was his primary responsibility. His Nations was a shining jewel in Africa. He could be dead because he was teaching other African Nations how to deal with Corporatism acquiring African resources but maintaining African control. His United States of Africa plan was a threat to the NWO and he was financing that infrastructure. Just before his murder, he had stated that terrorists were invading Libya and wanted to eliminate them. He was right. The US, EU, UK and other Nations that have caused the disintegration of Libya were wrong and knew they were wrong. Qaddaffi was a thorn in their megalomaniacal plans to control the World's money and energy. Libya and Qaddaffi represent the shining example of flawed US policy in the MidEast, i.e., turn a reasonably successful independent Nation into a morass of death, chaos, and destruction.
 

polgara

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My final take on Gadhafi is he's dead.

Haven't considered his sorry ass since.

Good morning, CJ. :2wave:

:thumbs: :mrgreen:

Did you send all the snow we're getting here this morning? :naughty: :mrgreen: I woke up to find we're under an Alert - 3 to 5 more inches of snow on top of what was already here! Unbelievable, although I remember my Dad saying "don't put the snow shovel away until April 15." A few years ago I was planting my garden on April 20! Everything is screwy this year, and it doesn't look like it's gonna improve much, judging from what I'm reading about the 2016 POTUS election, and the problems both parties are having! Sheesh!
 

CanadaJohn

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Good morning, CJ. :2wave:

:thumbs: :mrgreen:

Did you send all the snow we're getting here this morning? :naughty: :mrgreen: I woke up to find we're under an Alert - 3 to 5 more inches of snow on top of what was already here! Unbelievable, although I remember my Dad saying "don't put the snow shovel away until April 15." A few years ago I was planting my garden on April 20! Everything is screwy this year, and it doesn't look like it's gonna improve much, judging from what I'm reading about the 2016 POTUS election, and the problems both parties are having! Sheesh!

Good morning Lady P,

Nope, I didn't send the snow - you guys, and the north east US are getting much more snow than we are - it's been pretty mild and uneventful here, although we did have a couple of inches last week, but it melted before the afternoon was out. Still unseasonably cold here though - next week is supposed to be better.

As for April planting, here in Toronto we always wait for the May 24th weekend before we risk putting any annuals in the ground - frost is always a possibility this time of year and well into May.

And as for the US election, first time in decades that I've lost all interest - none of the candidates will make a good President, so just have to hope that the Congress keeps whomever gets in in check.
 

reinoe

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This isn't a current issue. I''m just wondering what your final take is on Gaddafi.
Al-Qaeda and their ally Hillary Clinton sure are glad he's gone. Now terrorists have another country to take over and Hillary Clinton can point to Libya as an example of what will happen throughout the middle-east.
 

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reinoe;1065752007[SIZE=5 said:
]Al-Qaeda and their ally Hillary Clinton[/SIZE] sure are glad he's gone. Now terrorists have another country to take over and Hillary Clinton can point to Libya as an example of what will happen throughout the middle-east.
hillary was president or the chef of CIA during the cold war ? No ,they were some other presidents who aided those islamists!
 

DA60

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Ousting Gaddafi was an incredible mistake and the West is to blame.

Libya is now a complete mess and a harbor for terrorism (as are almost all places where there is mass chaos). And I said when the West first started bombing that it was a HUGE mistake...a child should have (almost) been able to see what would have happened.

It is the same thing as Saddam, they should have left him alone and let his own people deal with him. Paul Bremer did more to destroy that country then Saddam ever could have dreamed of doing, imo.

It amazes me how flat out stupid the West is when it comes to these matters...they always seem to assume (no matter how many times history has proven them wrong) that whatever situation replaces a horrible tyrant MUST be better for the people as a whole then the horrible tyrant was.

Idiots.

Let countries fix their own problems. Offer them peacekeeping and humanitarian aid, but otherwise...LEAVE THEM ALONE.
 
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Exquisitor

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Gaddafi is dead because he killed Americans and America remembered it unlike Asad who did not threaten or kill Americans.
 

Skeptic Bob

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I was living in Libya and working in the embassy up until the time of the revolution. The guy was a wack job but at the same time the people were relatively well off. Housing, food and fuel were very affordable. Though I certainly wouldn't call it a fun place to be. Us diplomats weren't allowed to leave the capital without permission from the host government and that was almost never granted, especially for lower level folks like me. I had 24 hr surveillance on me. They weren't trying to hide it. One time I came home and my wife wasn't home. She didn't drive so I knew she hadn't gone far. I walked out to the car that was always in front of my house and asked the two agents in the car where my wife was and they told me she was in the dvd store across the street. Sometimes I would give them bottled water or a slice of my pizza.

If you lived your life the way you were expected the regime left you alone. But if you pissed them off they would make you disappear. The protests, in Tripoli at least, started off peacefully. But they were met with violence and instead of caving in they fought back. Things escalated very quickly from there. It took us a week before we were able to evacuate. Scariest week of my life because my family was there with me. My oldest son at the time was five years old. He thought the sounds of combat outside were fireworks and was constantly angry at me that I forced him to lay down in the bathtub instead of letting him go outside to watch.

I personally supported the air support at the time, though I wasn't involved in policy. But in hindsight I would be lying to myself if I said the average Libyan is better off now than they were before the revolution.
 

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Gaddafi is dead because he killed Americans and America remembered it unlike Asad who did not threaten or kill Americans.

That had nothing to do with it. If we wanted to get Gaddafi we had decades to do so. Hillary ousted him because she wants terrorists to take over multiple countries.
 

Grand Mal

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I was living in Libya and working in the embassy up until the time of the revolution. The guy was a wack job but at the same time the people were relatively well off. Housing, food and fuel were very affordable. Though I certainly wouldn't call it a fun place to be. Us diplomats weren't allowed to leave the capital without permission from the host government and that was almost never granted, especially for lower level folks like me. I had 24 hr surveillance on me. They weren't trying to hide it. One time I came home and my wife wasn't home. She didn't drive so I knew she hadn't gone far. I walked out to the car that was always in front of my house and asked the two agents in the car where my wife was and they told me she was in the dvd store across the street. Sometimes I would give them bottled water or a slice of my pizza.

If you lived your life the way you were expected the regime left you alone. But if you pissed them off they would make you disappear. The protests, in Tripoli at least, started off peacefully. But they were met with violence and instead of caving in they fought back. Things escalated very quickly from there. It took us a week before we were able to evacuate. Scariest week of my life because my family was there with me. My oldest son at the time was five years old. He thought the sounds of combat outside were fireworks and was constantly angry at me that I forced him to lay down in the bathtub instead of letting him go outside to watch.

I personally supported the air support at the time, though I wasn't involved in policy. But in hindsight I would be lying to myself if I said the average Libyan is better off now than they were before the revolution.

Good report. Thanks.
 

Grand Mal

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That had nothing to do with it. If we wanted to get Gaddafi we had decades to do so. Hillary ousted him because she wants terrorists to take over multiple countries.

What mindless drivel.
Unless it's satire. Tell me it's satire.
 

Medusa

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Gaddafi is dead because he killed Americans and America remembered it unlike Asad who did not threaten or kill Americans.

No he is dead because he was out of date
 

sKiTzo

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I think Qaddaffi did a fine job of taking care of Libyans and that was his primary responsibility. His Nations was a shining jewel in Africa. He could be dead because he was teaching other African Nations how to deal with Corporatism acquiring African resources but maintaining African control. His United States of Africa plan was a threat to the NWO and he was financing that infrastructure. Just before his murder, he had stated that terrorists were invading Libya and wanted to eliminate them. He was right. The US, EU, UK and other Nations that have caused the disintegration of Libya were wrong and knew they were wrong. Qaddaffi was a thorn in their megalomaniacal plans to control the World's money and energy. Libya and Qaddaffi represent the shining example of flawed US policy in the MidEast, i.e., turn a reasonably successful independent Nation into a morass of death, chaos, and destruction.

Are you Libyan? Because you're the only one on here who knows exactly what really happpened. I was like everybody else here - I had thought Gaddafi was a maniac dictator BECAUSE I LISTENED TO WHAT THE MEDIA TOLD US. I was so shocked when I found out the truth because it revealed another truth much bigger than anything else we could ever discuss here. It appears we've underestimated the scale of the role that the media plays in deceiving the people and its effectiveness.

We all know the media lies. What we didn't know was the grand scale of it all. This means that control of the media is the #1 most important tool of the globalists. This makes me wonder if Assad is the maniac they say he is, and if Hussein or Khomeni were as well...after all, they all have one thing in common: they were leaders of the few remaining countries that were not under Rothschild banking control. This is so fkng sick it's amazing.
 
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Grand Mal

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Are you Libyan? Because you're the only one on here who knows exactly what really happpened. I was like everybody else here - I had thought Gaddafi was a maniac dictator BECAUSE I LISTENED TO WHAT THE MEDIA TOLD US. I was so shocked when I found out the truth because it revealed another truth much bigger than anything else we could ever discuss here. It appears we've underestimated the scale of the role that the media plays in deceiving the people and its effectiveness.

We all know the media lies. What we didn't know was the grand scale of it all. This means that control of the media is the #1 most important tool of the globalists. This makes me wonder if Assad is the maniac they say he is, and if Hussein or Khomeni were as well...after all, they all have one thing in common: they were leaders of the few remaining countries that were not under Rothschild banking control. This is so fkng sick it's amazing.

I don't know how much, if anything, this has to do with events but just before the US invasion of Iraq Saddam started accepting Euros instead of dollars for oil.
 
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