• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

France, Germany, UK to meet Iran on nuclear deal (Radio France International) (1 Viewer)

trixare4kids said:
Absolute nonsense.
We are rock sold with our EU allies.
However, that doesn't mean we must agree on every issue.
Click to expand...

Still chasing me around the forum, I see.

We are not "rock solid" with our EU allies. Have you been there this year?

We never agree on every issue. That's my entire point, thank you. We lead. We influence global affairs according to our own self interests and to the ideals we think will benefit the world. Only now, with this president, we don't. We just put on our onesie jammies and suck a thumb in the corner. From first hand global experience, I am telling you without a doubt that the US is the laughing stock of the entire planet.
 
Bullseye said:
Which "global leadership role" was that? You mean Obama's mobile red lines and "leading from behind"? Yeah, a real shame that's gone. :roll:
Click to expand...

How precious is an unformed mind. The "global leadership role" to which I referred was formed in the aftermath of WWII. In the face of technological superiority and a political power vacuum, the US became an hegemony and rose to oppose the USSR. Perhaps you could gain a high schooler's understanding of world history before I waste more time explaining it to you.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Exactly how we were looked at under the last president as well.

The last guy didn't make a Iran deal................. as much as he bent over for the imams.

There never was a deal because the imams continued with their deceit.

Obama and Kerry were nothing but pawns to be used by the imams.
Click to expand...

If you would like to return to reality and support your assertions with credible sources I will be happy to engage with you. For now, your partisan vomitus offers me (and you) no value.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
No, there is no one who is credible who thinks that Iran does not comply with the agreement. Where do you get this mess? The people who don't like "Obama's deal" (pro tip: Look up the agreement. It was never an American-centric deal, which ironically, is what you both like and hate about it simultaneously) just don't like Obama. It really is that simple.

You think that when the president of the US meets the North Korean dictator that he's meeting with China? That diaper load is a little too ripe even for you.
Click to expand...

Schumer thinks Obama's deal is crap...but now he loves it. Go figure...
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Kim Jong Un is "dancing to Trump's tune"? I think you ought to visit a thread that requires less comprehension.
Click to expand...
When all else fails go for the insult, eh?
 
Aristaeus said:
1. Iran is abiding by the deal.
2. You think a deal which benefits the whole world is a mistake????

Another benefit of the deal is that offering sanctions relief, that normal Iranian people will feel the benefits of, as a result of diplomatic efforts shows the people of Iran that a softer, more diplomatic stance reaps better results than more hard-line rhetoric. It was a potential foot in the door for the more centrist politicians in Iran. That door has been slammed shut by Trump. This is a victory for extremists in Iran. Congratulations.
Click to expand...

Win for the Republicans, who want perpetual war. It makes their defense contractor and gun manufacturer buddies even more rich
 
Aristaeus said:
The idea that North Korea is giving up decades of belligerence and nuclear ambitions because Trump called him childish names on twitter is absurd.
Click to expand...

These people throw out the same, unoriginal stupid ****. Decades of war mongering by US has lead to where we are today. All the hatred for america is based on the bull**** we have pulled. Bullying the world, particularly the middle east, helping overthrow democratically elected governments that cause horrible suffering to the people, so we can get cheap oil. Dumb, brainwashed people who know nothing outside of their hick towns just ignore these irrefutable facts, ignore history. How stupid do you have to be to think "they hate us for our way of life."

What hypocrites, after 9/11, where we got a tiny dose of what our government inflicts on others, people were raging for war. Wanting to bomb the middle east, claimnng we should turn it to glass. Attacking US muslims. But oh my god, Iranians are pissed at US once again screwing them over.

Seriously, these people are an absolute joke, the reason teh entire history of humanity is full of violence and despicable things. And they try to pretend they are so holier than thou and moral. Yeah, right
 
Mycroft said:
I think it's a mistake to make a deal with Iran, knowing they won't abide by the deal. I think it's a mistake to make a deal that offers, at best, temporary benefits for the world and immediate benefits for Iran. I think it's a mistake to make a deal with the number one sponsor of terror in the world.

I think those countries will eventually regret their mistake.

I see these countries making this deal with...doing business with...Iran as these countries being allies with Iran. I see these countries as being allies with terrorists.

Do you disagree?
Click to expand...

Well first off, it is time to face the facts on the so-called "temporary benefits".
You're obviously referring to Iran's promise to not manufacture nuclear weapons, and you've expressed doubts that they will stick to that promise.
Here is a bit of news that might be difficult for a lot of people to accept:

1. Nuclear proliferation is a permanent fact on a global level and has been ever since Trinity. The knowledge is with mankind now, and nothing will erase it or reduce it to a finite number of persons. Once a nation has pursued knowledge of nuclear weapons, it is already too late to reverse the process. You cannot unring a bell. Edward Teller knew this, Robert Oppenheimer knew this. Iran's nuclear capability is already a fact.
Another fact, one which anyone can guarantee, is Iran's awareness of what would happen if they ever decided to use a nuclear weapon.
It's one thing to wave around a couple of nukes, another thing altogether to commit to actually using one.
India and Pakistan both have nukes, and they arrived at the same capability in much the same way DPRK and Iran did.

2. By pulling out of the agreement, Iran is now free from all the commitments it made. Penalizing the agreement actually blows it up.

3. Regardless of the flaws in the agreement, abandoning it puts us on an eventual course of war with Iran.
You might feel optimistic, John Bolton certainly does, but John Bolton's resume includes zero victories and one continuing FAILURE and monumental lapse in not only judgment, but sanity itself: IRAQ.
Thus we are not only unprepared for war with Iran, we are also on a path toward a world war if we embark on it.
War is something Mr. Bolton also has zero experience with. His only military service consisted of protecting Maryland from enemy invaders in Virginia while serving in the National Guard, and writing a snarky excuse for avoiding service in Vietnam, yet he is possibly the biggest war hawk on the planet, the very textbook definition of a chickenhawk.

4. Why should these other countries go along with the United States? In light of Mr. Trump's actions towards EVERY LAST one of them in the last year, should they still feel confident about being U.S. allies at this point? It's easy to be flippant about the flaws in the JCPOA if you're not on the hook for the resulting economic penalties that result from breaking with Iran on a direct level.
The United States does almost zero business with Iran, except when we're not secretly selling them arms to finance our own covert terrorism operations in Central America, but China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom and Germany all do quite a bit of business with Iran.
This is not making excuses, I want people to consider the direct economic consequences that arise, because it is certain that the United States is not prepared to cushion the blow in these countries if Iran breaks economic agreements with them, and they have their economies and the well-being of their people to consider.

You said that "you see these countries as doing business with Iran"??
This might surprise you, but these countries not only all DO business with Iran but they also do business with every other country as well, including Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Nigeria, Chechen Republic, Turkey, Qatar...there isn't a single Muslim country they don't do business with.
That's been a fact ever since these countries began to exist, or in many cases, before...as in before both world wars.
Some of them have been doing business in the region since before the United States existed.

Lastly, although we are perhaps in agreement about the problem of Iran's current meddling with terrorism, I would caution anyone in the use of the word to describe Iran without taking the entire history of the region into account.
What is YOUR VIEW of the 1953 CIA backed overthrow of the Mossadegh government in Iran?
So you see, when one uses that word, it depends who you're talking to.
Many families in Iran lost quite a few innocent people who never harmed a fly, for nothing more than disagreeing with the installation of Shah Reza Pahlavi. SAVAK came and took them in the middle of the night and they were never seen again. We installed the Shah, after overthrowing a democratically elected government.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
These people throw out the same, unoriginal stupid ****. Decades of war mongering by US has lead to where we are today. All the hatred for america is based on the bull**** we have pulled. Bullying the world, particularly the middle east, helping overthrow democratically elected governments that cause horrible suffering to the people, so we can get cheap oil. Dumb, brainwashed people who know nothing outside of their hick towns just ignore these irrefutable facts, ignore history. How stupid do you have to be to think "they hate us for our way of life."

What hypocrites, after 9/11, where we got a tiny dose of what our government inflicts on others, people were raging for war. Wanting to bomb the middle east, claimnng we should turn it to glass. Attacking US muslims. But oh my god, Iranians are pissed at US once again screwing them over.

Seriously, these people are an absolute joke, the reason teh entire history of humanity is full of violence and despicable things. And they try to pretend they are so holier than thou and moral. Yeah, right
Click to expand...

When you ask the average American when our trouble with Iran started, 75 to 85 percent of them say "1979, Ayatollah Khomeini".
They aren't even aware of the fact that Shah Reza Pahlavi was a U.S. puppet installed BY US and the UK in 1953 when the US and UK, with the help of the CIA and Mi5, overthrew the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED government of Mohammed Mossadegh.
They think that the Ayatollah of Donut Hole-a just waltzed in one day out of the blue muttering about the Great Satan for no reason whatsoever.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
When you ask the average American when our trouble with Iran started, 75 to 85 percent of them say "1979, Ayatollah Khomeini".
They aren't even aware of the fact that Shah Reza Pahlavi was a U.S. puppet installed BY US and the UK in 1953 when the US and UK, with the help of the CIA and Mi5, overthrew the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED government of Mohammed Mossadegh.
They think that the Ayatollah of Donut Hole-a just waltzed in one day out of the blue muttering about the Great Satan for no reason whatsoever.
Click to expand...

It's also ridiculous the stupid line I've been seeing a lot of "they are the biggest sponsors of terrorism." That's another ridiculous statment, we are bombing 3 countries, and supporting Saudis brutal bombing in Yemen. We had a role in forming a breeding ground of terrorism in Iraq and Syria. Helped their recruiting. And not Trump is giving another win for the extremists in Iran with this stupid stunt. We supporting bin Laden and Afghanis against Russia, while they were beheading Russian soldiers. Then, when we were done with them doing out bidding, just left them in shambles for the warlords and religious extremists to take over. Again, US helped create the breeding grounds for terrorism. US supported Saddam and their war with Iraq (another reason why Iran doesn't like the US), then when he stopped doing out bidding, invaded them, leaving their people to suffer immensely. And then what about Vietnam? We burned civilians foods and villages, we napalmed the hell out of people, killed so many, another example of terrorism. There are so many other examples of this.

No **** America is hated by so many, we are hypocritical bullies. The movie Team America was great as it touched on that "America, **** yea!" particularly when they left destruction around them and was saying to the people of the country they didn't have to thank them.
 
bubbabgone said:
1) I said ..."I wouldn't be surprised if Iran is complying with the provisions of the agreement."
There's really no reason not to.
They got everything they wanted ... 150 Billion $, they're not prevented from nuclear weapon development, they got help with developing their Country, and they're still fomenting all manner of violence in the M.E..

2) I remember Kerry being squeezed repeatedly ... and successfully ... by Iran. It was a multi-national agreement borne of economics.

3) I also said Congress didn't approve of the agreement and wasn't asked to.

So far you haven't found anything to disagree about.

So let me ask you ... if it was a huge compromise, what exactly did Iran give up in this compromise? A pause in some limited aspects of nuclear weapon development is not much of a compromise considering all they got for it, is it?
Click to expand...

I tried to copy and paste for you, but you really just need to read the whole article. I have thirty more if you need them.

Iran nuclear deal: Key details - BBC News
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
What does that have to do with the price of beans in China? Focus.
Click to expand...

Maybe you think Schumer just don't like Obama. After all, it really is that simple...right?

MateoMtnClimber said:
No, there is no one who is credible who thinks that Iran does not comply with the agreement. Where do you get this mess? The people who don't like "Obama's deal" (pro tip: Look up the agreement. It was never an American-centric deal, which ironically, is what you both like and hate about it simultaneously) just don't like Obama. It really is that simple.
Click to expand...
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
Umm, you realize that that is neither a doctrine nor a sentence, don't you? It's also an internet meme. Please tell me you have something to offer.
Click to expand...

shrug...

This is exactly how Trump deals with ever foreign nation...friend or foe. This is his stance.
 
MateoMtnClimber said:
You're welcome to counter my point that you called an insult.

Whenever you're ready.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I don't reward condescension or arrogance -which is all you offer.
 
Bullseye said:
They have the internet and other modern communication devices in Beijing. You're aware of that, yes?
Click to expand...

You're playing dumb, so clearly there's no point in continuing. I am not interested in pursuing a trollish thread.
 
Mycroft said:
I think it's a mistake to make a deal with Iran, knowing they won't abide by the deal. I think it's a mistake to make a deal that offers, at best, temporary benefits for the world and immediate benefits for Iran. I think it's a mistake to make a deal with the number one sponsor of terror in the world.

I think those countries will eventually regret their mistake.

I see these countries making this deal with...doing business with...Iran as these countries being allies with Iran. I see these countries as being allies with terrorists.

Do you disagree?
Click to expand...

By that logic, should we trust North Korea? They've proven they can't be trust worthy, so what is the distinction? If you don't want to make a deal with Iran, then what are you proposing?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top Bottom