Forget Bathrooms - What About Locker Rooms?

[CaptainCourtesy]

Btw, why do you lie? Nothing about the treatment resolves the mental health issue. The condition itself still exists and is in some ways worse due to the hormones use.

Oh and the SRS doesn't bridge the gap for either MTF's or FTM's. Should we go over functional and structural differences? I find doctors that lie to be incredibly distasteful and you're doing nothing but lying.

Actually, the one lying is you, as it always is. The treatment resolves the mental health issue. The GDD is no longer a problem because the inconsistency is resolved. The hormone use has been shown to reduce the dysphoria, and certainly helps the individual feel better. And SRS certainly helps both MTFs and FTMs. What bothers me is people like you who lie and chose to remain willfully ignorant because of how protective they are of an invalid agenda. Your dishonesty and willful ignorance on this issue has been on display for a long time, and I am quite happy to be the one who most often helps you display it.

 

[Dragonfly]

Was she shocked by the nakedness, the wrinkliness, or the effect of gravity over time?

All of it. Yes.

 

[joG]

So lets say the who can use what bathroom thing get's resolved so that 99% of the population is happy. (Can't please 100% ever)

What about locker rooms? Places where, in many cases, complete nudity is in fact out in the open.
What about the shower situation?

Last locker rooms I was in had communal showers. No private stall. No separation curtains. Just big rooms with multiple shower heads sticking out of walls.
I haven't been in a "modern gym" or modern workout facility in ages so maybe it's different now. What's the locker room and shower situation like at a place like Planet Fitness or Crossfit type place?

Where does the tran-man go?
Where does the tran-girl go?

Does that become the next "battlefield"?

Now we're no longer talking about who is peeing/pooping in the stall next to you, now we're talking about who might be standing buck-naked right next to you in a shower.

How does this problem resolve itself?

How do you handle this for schools? Middle School and High School sports locker rooms?

Do we simply change the signs on the doors from "men" & "women", to "penis" and "vagina"?
Is that the simplest solution?

(cue the outrage from religious folks for the graphic needed to cover those signs):shock:

So what about it. This isn't about using the toilet. This is about changing and showering is group settings.

Why should girls and little boys be allowed to hide?

 

[Dragonfly]

Why should girls and little boys be allowed to hide?

I have absolutely no idea what you mean here.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Bull****. My concern is borne out of 100% concern for these troubled individuals. Genital mutilation and harmful synthetic hormones aren't "helping" anyone.

You'll forgive me if I'm skeptical of your 90% claim. Where exactly did you get this number?

BTW, has anyone seen Ranae lately?

Here are some studies that demonstrate overwhelming satisfaction of HRT/SRS:

Male-to-female transsexualism: a technique, results and long-term follow-up in 66 patients. - PubMed - NCBI

More than 90% of the patients were satisfied with the cosmetic result and capacity for orgasm;
None of the present patients claimed to regret their decision to undergo gender-transforming surgery.

90% satisfied with result, NONE regretted decision.

https://www.skane.se/Upload/Webbplatser/USIL/Dokument/Sjukhusbibliotek/Johansson,%20Annika.pdf

However, the outcome was very encouraging from both perspectives, with almost 90% enjoying a stable or improved life situation at follow-up
When interviewed about how content they were with the SR process as a whole, almost all the patients (95%) rated themselves as satisfied and no one regretted the SR.

90% stable and improved life, 95% were satisfied, and NONE regretted. Some of the clinician's assessment ratings were lower in regards to the first number.

Sex reassignment: outcomes and predictors of treatment for adolescent and adult transsexuals. - PubMed - NCBI

After treatment the group was no longer gender dysphoric. The vast majority functioned quite well psychologically, socially and sexually.

NO GENDER DYSPHORIA. That of course destroys Henrin's completely dishonest and ignorant statement that the treatment does not resolve mental health issues.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets

The regret rate defined as application for reversal of the legalgender status among those who were sex reassigned was 2.2 %for the whole period 1960–2010 with no significant sex difference. .

Long term study. With regret rate at 2.4%, that means satisfaction rate is 97.6%. This study also cites MANY other studies that show a similar satisfaction rate.

Elsevier: Article Locator

On the GAF (DSM-IV) scale the female-to-male transsexuals scored significantly higher than the male-to-females (85.2 versus 76.2). While no difference in psychological functioning (SCL-90) was observed between the study group and a normal population, subjects with a pre-existing psychopathology were found to have retained more psychological symptoms. The subjects proclaimed an overall positive change in their family and social life. None of them showed any regrets about the SRS.

Another long term study. The SCL-90 is an assessment scale that measures a variety of psychological issues such as depression and anxiety (I've used it on occasion). NO difference between post-op transsexuals and the "normal" population. NO regrets.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0447.1998.tb10001.x/abstract

The results showed that 3.8% of the patients who were sex reassigned during 1972-1992 regretted the measures taken.

Another long term study. 3.8% regret, translating to 96.2% satisfaction. When looking at the reasons for regret, one of the major ones was lack of support from person's family.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1024086814364

Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret.

No regret.

So, what have we learned. Firstly, we've learned that Henrin is wrong and or lying, but then again, that's been obvious on this issue for years. Secondly, we see that, overwhelmingly, regret is very minimal, and satisfaction rates are over 90%.

 

[joG]

I have absolutely no idea what you mean here.

It is the obvious conclusion of introducing unisex locker rooms.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Like what? Go ahead and give me an example. I don't accept their claims because they are factually false. I also don't accept the treatment because it is factually out of line with the research, harms the patient, and does nothing to resolve the underlining issue.

You are either wrong, lying, ignorant on this issue, or some combination. I have shown you the research that demonstrates that you don't know what you are talking about; you dismiss it because of your refusal to upgrade your invalid opinion. I have now posted MORE research, all of which destroys your position, AGAIN. I'm certain that you will stick to your invalid position simply because you either lack the integrity on this issue to change it or because you choose to remain ignorant on this issue.

If you think I should accept genital mutilation, further warping of the mind, decreased life expectancy due to cellular damage, and increased risk of cancer as an acceptable treatment for a problem of the mind go ahead and tell me why.

Since none of what you say above has any validity, as usual on this issue, your comments are irrelevant.

 

[Manc Skipper]

It is the obvious conclusion of introducing unisex locker rooms.

Removing the religion induced shame of nakedness would be a good thing.

 

[joG]

Removing the religion induced shame of nakedness would be a good thing.

I am not sure that it is originates in religion. But it does seem to be cultural.

 

[TheGoverness]

I am not sure that it is originates in religion. But it does seem to be cultural.

That's true. Back then the Greeks and Romans had no problem with nudity, now today we have people trying to censor the statues.

 

[Lovebug]

It is simple. If I want to see some vaginas, I'll announce to be getting one real soon, promise. If I want to see some penises (cold showered ones), I'll announce to be getting one real soon, promise.
How do you know it isn't so? Too bad.
But yeah, OP posts some tough questions to which we may not have a simple answer.
It is a cruel world out there. Kids and adults alike can be vicious, no matter how many laws we put in place to protect this or that.

 

[Lovebug]

Removing the religion induced shame of nakedness would be a good thing.

Why are we even bringing religion into this? Kids have different levels of shyness at different ages. I assume kids and adults alike have different levels of self-conciousness, whether they are in transition or not.
But if we must bring religion into the discussion, may I ask how our Muslim students will handle the situation?
I assume all are welcome to not take showers, those who are shy because of religion, and those who are shy because of other reasons.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Adam and Eve were fine with nakedness till God made them ashamed. A child who grows up in the knowledge that nakedness is intrinsically normal is a better-balanced individual. As for the "I know I am, but what is he?" argument,...Pffft!

 

[Lovebug]

Shyness about nudity may just be a cultural thing, with the US being very high on the list of misplaced sense of decency. Compare the number of nudist beaches in Europe to those in the US

Warning, nude pic on site

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_nudity_places_in_Europe

 

[cabse5]

Locker rooms, as has been said, are different than bathrooms. The bathroom issue is flat out idiot to anyone who knows anything about transsexuals or how public bathrooms work. The locker room issue is quite different because the level of discomfort ACTUALLY happens. Many locker rooms are as Dragonfly suggested... completely open. In my view, you go where your genitals match. If they don't, and you are uncomfortable with that, you go home. If that is not possible, as it is in school, I ALWAYS recommend a separate changing area for the transsexual. Always is accepted and always works. That way, no one's discomfort is compromised. I have never had a transsexual that had issue with doing this.

Do you think being pointed out as transsexual in a public way at a public school is something the transsexual craves? Really? Maybe you mean a separate changing area for everyone?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Do you think being pointed out as transsexual in a public way at a public school is something the transsexual craves? Really? Maybe you mean a separate changing area for everyone?

No, I don't. There are many reasons that someone could have a special changing area. I've signed off on it for clients who self-injure and are concerned about people remarking about their scars, I've done if for people with eating disorders who are concerned about people remarking on their bodies. There could be other medical reasons, too. So, no, this doesn't point out a transsexual in a public way. Also, people rarely notice these kinds of things, anyway. School locker rooms tend to be fairly large.

 

[LaylaWindu]

So lets say the who can use what bathroom thing get's resolved so that 99% of the population is happy. (Can't please 100% ever)

What about locker rooms? Places where, in many cases, complete nudity is in fact out in the open.
What about the shower situation?

Last locker rooms I was in had communal showers. No private stall. No separation curtains. Just big rooms with multiple shower heads sticking out of walls.
I haven't been in a "modern gym" or modern workout facility in ages so maybe it's different now. What's the locker room and shower situation like at a place like Planet Fitness or Crossfit type place?

Where does the tran-man go?
Where does the tran-girl go?

Does that become the next "battlefield"?

Now we're no longer talking about who is peeing/pooping in the stall next to you, now we're talking about who might be standing buck-naked right next to you in a shower.

How does this problem resolve itself?

How do you handle this for schools? Middle School and High School sports locker rooms?

Do we simply change the signs on the doors from "men" & "women", to "penis" and "vagina"?
Is that the simplest solution?

(cue the outrage from religious folks for the graphic needed to cover those signs):shock:

So what about it. This isn't about using the toilet. This is about changing and showering is group settings.

Well I'm a woman and I still don't care.
Also where are these locker rooms that are full of butt naked people and zero privacy? I've been in countless various locker rooms and have never encountered such a place. I have only seen them in the movies. Anyway again, I'm a woman and I have ZERO issue with "transgenders" using the same bathroom as me. The discussion is absurd in my opinion. Fact is they have already been doing it. It's weird that its an issue now, seems like simply panicking from the crazies.

 

[chromium]

Adam and Eve were fine with nakedness till God made them ashamed. A child who grows up in the knowledge that nakedness is intrinsically normal is a better-balanced individual. As for the "I know I am, but what is he?" argument,...Pffft!

if anything it seems religiosity is dying down just as fear of nudity is escalating

i would say it's induced by obesity more than anything, but also sense of entitlement and growing awareness that it's actually traumatic for some (like the transgender and young teens)

 

[cabse5]

SNIP...The discussion is absurd in my opinion. Fact is they <transsexuals> have already been doing it. It's weird that its an issue now, seems like simply panicking from the crazies.

Concerning this issue, there seems to be a lot of panicky behavior on both the left and right 'spectrum' of politics in America.

 

[Southern Dad]

Although locker rooms, changing rooms, and showers are included in the laws, the LGBT community wants us to only focus on the bathroom part of the argument. It's easier to defend. Besides while she may look like Jane when she's got her pantyhose, high heels, dress, wig, and make up on... She looks like John in the shower. Do you want your little girls in the shower at the community pool with someone with a penis?

 

[LaylaWindu]

Concerning this issue, there seems to be a lot of panicky behavior on both the left and right 'spectrum' of politics in America.

This issue has a left and right spectrum? Maybe in the news and in a strerotype way but just about everybody I know thinks the issue is absurd and understands transgenders have already been using the facilities they choose. If you are right or left to me that doesn't matter or does it impact if you are in the crazy group. The people panicking over this with fear tactics are the crazies.

 

[roguenuke]

I have to go to the YMCA to swim my PFA once every six months. The Y has three locker rooms. One for men, 18 and older, one for women, 18 and older, and a family locker room. Adults are not allowed in the family locker room unless accompanying a child.

What's wrong with this setup but allowing adults to use the locker room they identify as? If they cause an issue, kick them out or address it when the issue happens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[roguenuke]

Although locker rooms, changing rooms, and showers are included in the laws, the LGBT community wants us to only focus on the bathroom part of the argument. It's easier to defend. Besides while she may look like Jane when she's got her pantyhose, high heels, dress, wig, and make up on... She looks like John in the shower. Do you want your little girls in the shower at the community pool with someone with a penis?

Most community pools have shower stalls (at least the ones I've been too).

 

[roguenuke]

Well I'm a woman and I still don't care.
Also where are these locker rooms that are full of butt naked people and zero privacy? I've been in countless various locker rooms and have never encountered such a place. I have only seen them in the movies. Anyway again, I'm a woman and I have ZERO issue with "transgenders" using the same bathroom as me. The discussion is absurd in my opinion. Fact is they have already been doing it. It's weird that its an issue now, seems like simply panicking from the crazies.

I've seen them in the military, during basic training. That's pretty much it. Even in high school we showered in individual stalls.

 

[cabse5]

This issue has a left and right spectrum? Maybe in the news and in a strerotype way but just about everybody I know thinks the issue is absurd and understands transgenders have already been using the facilities they choose. If you are right or left to me that doesn't matter or does it impact if you are in the crazy group. The people panicking over this with fear tactics are the crazies.

Like I said:

Concerning this issue, there seems to be a lot of panicky behavior on both the left and right 'spectrum' of politics in America.

Righties fear their 10 year old daughters will be molested by preverts and lefties are concerned with an, at best, .01 of the population. One percent of the population if one considers all the biological cases and all the psychological cases. One tenth of one percent of the population if one considers all the biological cases. At best 1 out of every 100 people and at worst one out of every 1,000 people. Yeah, I'd say lefties are going into a frenzy over, at best, 1 out of 100 especially if a good session with a psychiatrist could solve some of those situations.