(For Republicans) Should Romney resign?

[humbolt]

It should be up to the voters in his home state o remove him from office. Considering how he hates Trump, though, his vote was predictable. He knows he has no future at the national level, so getting a dig in at Trump didn't cost him anything.

I'd agree but for Romney's explanation. I think it was less than honest, and considering he portrayed it as a soul searching effort of honesty, I'd say Mitt has a personal problem.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So we should investigate all the kids and spouses who get hired because of who daddy or mommy or hubby or wifey is? I'm not against it TBH, but if we're going to use the U.S. government to target those arrangements, let's make it a policy, and apply it consistently, or at least when someone can credibly describe a possible crime.

What crime do you think either Biden might have committed, specifically? Being hired to sit on a board because of personal or family connections is.....normal in the U.S. capitalist system, so that's not enough, not even close.

You point out exactly why this "internal investigation" of (obvious?) nepotism will go nowhere. The DC swamp thrives on these quid pro quo arraingements where friends and relatives of "public servants" are rewarded with publicly funded "deals" of all sorts.

 

[JasperL]

I'm not in favor of endless investigations. In Hunter's case, even the Obama administration expressed serious concerns. This deserves a look. I have abdolutely no interest in heaping more trouble on Hunter Biden's shoulders. He's done more than enough of that himself to himself. I think we should investigate those events that may reveal serious criminality. I'm not interested in the jaywalkers.

Yes, it looks bad, but you can't identify even a possible crime, so why does it "deserve a look" and by that you mean a full blown investigation by Ukraine and the FBI, presumably?

To me it looks bad that Virginia Thomas, wife of Clarence, is a lobbyist and has had high-paid positions with a bunch of right wing outfits over the years. I guess that warrants Presidential and FBI attention, since it looks bad. Looks bad to me that Elaine Chao is head of DOT with her family ties, and hubby's position as majority leader. FBI!!!

And this really isn't even butwhataboutism. I'm totally fine people concluding the Hunter Biden stuff is open influence peddling and corrupt at the core, and consider it with their votes. It is like much of D.C. This kind of open corruption is a HUGE problem IMO and the more to expose it and limit it the better. Just for example, the big difference between the Saudis and Iran and Iraq is basically the Saudis are smart enough to cut in a bunch of powerful people in the U.S. in their deals and make them wealthy, so they're "allies." Iran and Iraq didn't. 15 of the attackers on 9/11 were Saudis funded with Saudi money and we reduced IRAQ to rubble.... So it's corrupt and a symptom of our broken system.

What it's not and you can't credibly allege it, is criminal, unless 1000 other arrangements just like it in D.C. are criminal or possibly criminal, so the FBI needs a special unit just to do nothing but examine them all.

 

[JasperL]

You point out exactly why this "internal investigation" of (obvious?) nepotism will go nowhere. The DC swamp thrives on these quid pro quo arraingements where friends and relatives of "public servants" are rewarded with publicly funded "deals" of all sorts.

Of course it won't go anywhere, and what I object mainly to is the fake outrage about it. No one really gives a damn about these things or similar. And yes the hypocrisy cuts both ways here. Bottom line is the legitimate objections to these things are political, not criminal.

But, again, I have little sympathy for the Bidens here when it comes to the criticism. Hunter joined a corrupt company with a corrupt owner, the end. That smelly **** won't wash off, sorry to say. They (Joe and Hunter) allowed their good name to be used to try to redeem the reputation of a corrupt POS thug.

And all the while, it's almost certain Rudy is being paid by another corrupt POS thug, Firtash. Where are the fainting couches over that? America's mayor lending HIS name to redeem someone under indictment as we speak....

 

[The AntiDonald]

I think Romney spends too much time seeking media attention. However, unlike the Democrats the Republican party time and time again have shown to be a party of individuals. Unlike the Democrats they are not lock step. Instead of singing the party song, they are tuned in to the needs of the people who elected them.

Lindsay Graham hasn't held a town hall in years. Now that's what I call TUNED IN !!

 

[humbolt]

Yes, it looks bad, but you can't identify even a possible crime, so why does it "deserve a look" and by that you mean a full blown investigation by Ukraine and the FBI, presumably?

To me it looks bad that Virginia Thomas, wife of Clarence, is a lobbyist and has had high-paid positions with a bunch of right wing outfits over the years. I guess that warrants Presidential and FBI attention, since it looks bad. Looks bad to me that Elaine Chao is head of DOT with her family ties, and hubby's position as majority leader. FBI!!!

And this really isn't even butwhataboutism. I'm totally fine people concluding the Hunter Biden stuff is open influence peddling and corrupt at the core, and consider it with their votes. It is like much of D.C. This kind of open corruption is a HUGE problem IMO and the more to expose it and limit it the better. Just for example, the big difference between the Saudis and Iran and Iraq is basically the Saudis are smart enough to cut in a bunch of powerful people in the U.S. in their deals and make them wealthy, so they're "allies." Iran and Iraq didn't. 15 of the attackers on 9/11 were Saudis funded with Saudi money and we reduced IRAQ to rubble.... So it's corrupt and a symptom of our broken system.

What it's not and you can't credibly allege it, is criminal, unless 1000 other arrangements just like it in D.C. are criminal or possibly criminal, so the FBI needs a special unit just to do nothing but examine them all.

Well, I think we'd start with collusion and obstruction. Uhhhh, nope. Violation of the Emoluments Clause, maybe. Errr, nope. How about bribery? Extortion? We'll find a charge, or we'll just make one up. Suddenly everyone's so picky.

I believe the charges surrounding Burisma in Ukraine included fraud, money laundering, and bribery. We should start there. I bet if one looks deeply enough, one would find theft and illegal weapons charges, too. Crack open the books on a few Cypriot banks, and who knows what you might find.

And no, I don't expect you'll find those crimes are common in DC.

 

[Common Sense 1]

For the voters from Utah to decide in the next election!

 

[JasperL]

Well, I think we'd start with collusion and obstruction. Uhhhh, nope. Violation of the Emoluments Clause, maybe. Errr, nope. How about bribery? Extortion? We'll find a charge, or we'll just make one up. Suddenly everyone's so picky.

I believe the charges surrounding Burisma in Ukraine included fraud, money laundering, and bribery. We should start there. I bet if one looks deeply enough, one would find theft and illegal weapons charges, too. Crack open the books on a few Cypriot banks, and who knows what you might find.

And no, I don't expect you'll find those crimes are common in DC.

None of those crimes credibly implicate Hunter Biden and you know it. If it's just retribution for the Trump stuff, that's fine, just say so. But you don't get to make up crap that's baseless and pretend you're seriously worried about Hunter being involved in those crimes.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I see where some are calling for it. But if he truly voted his conscience on the articles of impeachment is that what we should want -- impartial judgment?

Funny the guy at CPAC said he feared for Romney's safety if he showed up at their conference. Because Repukes have those superior values and morals. LOL!!!!!!!!!

 

[Outlook]

I see where some are calling for it. But if he truly voted his conscience on the articles of impeachment is that what we should want -- impartial judgment?

No, Mitt should not resign.
Mitt will make favorable and unfavorable decisions while in Congress.
The voters of Utah will decide if he is making too many unfavorable decisions for the State of Utah.

 

[Herkamer63]

As much as I disagree with the guy and as wrong as he was voting for impeachment, I'd say no because he didn't break any laws. BUT the people of Utah should start a petition and get someone to challenge him in a special election and remove Pierre Delecto that matter. Or simply wait and have someone run when his term is about to end. I would rather the people who voted for and against him to determine this guy's future in the US Senate. He needs to be shown that his actions have consequences.

 

[Overitall]

Funny the guy at CPAC said he feared for Romney's safety if he showed up at their conference. Because Repukes have those superior values and morals. LOL!!!!!!!!!

Hari, I’m not sure what your response has to do with my comment you quoted. Nevertheless, yeah it’s a crazy world we live in. I may be getting senile but I don’t remember this sort of thing happening in my younger years.

 

[slick]

That Romney's top aid was on the same board as Hunter Biden at Burisma tells the real story. That is actually far more serious than Hunter Biden, because it goes straight to Romney directly, not some bum son playing off his father's name. For Romney, it was more directly connected to official activities by Romney's own employee.

If you send an employee to go pick up the bribery money, it is much harder to deny it than if a relative is marketing his last name. Romney's complicity is far greater than Biden's with Burisma and payola.

Back off on Mitt Romney!.. I mean we all know he’s special, because he’s always telling us so!.. I heard that Romney even reportedly
said that the Book of Mormon once told him that it was totally cool with his Ukrainian dealings.

Have we now all sunk so low that we’re actually daring to question Mitt’s religious and super-human moral convictions?

What are the odds that Joe Biden, John Kerry, Mitt Romney, the Clintons, Speaker Pelosi and George Soros
all have very shady connections to the Ukraine? Hmmmm

 

[humbolt]

None of those crimes credibly implicate Hunter Biden and you know it. If it's just retribution for the Trump stuff, that's fine, just say so. But you don't get to make up crap that's baseless and pretend you're seriously worried about Hunter being involved in those crimes.

Neither do you get to query about specific charges when specific charges have already been leveled at the firm where Hunter was a board mrmber. A reasonable and even marginslly thoughtful person would wonder where in the hell all that money was coming from that he or she was paid to do next to nothing. So, the question is how much Hunter knew, and when did he know it. Was his resignation tied to his father's ptesidential ambitions? Why is Hunter so reluctant to reveal his finances to a court? Is he afraid of a shakedown, something more, or both?

You don't get to cry retribution! when all this impeachment furor is clearly done to exact retribution for Trump defeating Hillary and throwing your bitter asses out of power.

 

[Overitall]

Back off on Mitt Romney!.. I mean we all know he’s special, because he’s always telling us so!.. I heard that Romney even reportedly
said that the Book of Mormon once told him that it was totally cool with his Ukrainian dealings.

Have we now all sunk so low that we’re actually daring to question Mitt’s religious and super-human moral convictions?[

Well, Jesus did it with the Pharisees in his day so why not us today?

 

[JasperL]

Neither do you get to query about specific charges when specific charges have already been leveled at the firm where Hunter was a board mrmber.

And you know or should know if you cared that the charges predate his time on the BOD.

A reasonable and even marginslly thoughtful person would wonder where in the hell all that money was coming from that he or she was paid to do next to nothing. So, the question is how much Hunter knew, and when did he know it. Was his resignation tied to his father's ptesidential ambitions? Why is Hunter so reluctant to reveal his finances to a court? Is he afraid of a shakedown, something more, or both?

You don't get to cry retribution! when all this impeachment furor is clearly done to exact retribution for Trump defeating Hillary and throwing your bitter asses out of power.

OK, so it's all about Trump. Got it. eace

 

[humbolt]

And you know or should know if you cared that the charges predate his time on the BOD.



OK, so it's all about Trump. Got it. eace

And you'd know, if you cared, that Shokin wasn't booted out until March, 2016. Hunter was listed as the head of Holdings, i.e., the legal department, according to Burisma.

Again, suddenly the presumption of innocence is back in style. I really have no desire to add to Hunter's problems, but accepting a position with Burisma is almost the same as accepting a position in a drug cartel. Different product, but same business model and practice. I wonder how many Russian oligarchs launder money through the Cypriot holding company?

 

[JasperL]

And you'd know, if you cared, that Shokin wasn't booted out until March, 2016. Hunter was listed as the head of Holdings, i.e., the legal department, according to Burisma.

Right, Shokin was supposedly (but actually not) investigating Burisma for crimes that predated 2016, predated Hunter's board seat. If you have evidence otherwise, you can present it, but you cannot. When Shokin was fired is hilariously off point.

Again, suddenly the presumption of innocence is back in style. I really have no desire to add to Hunter's problems, but accepting a position with Burisma is almost the same as accepting a position in a drug cartel. Different product, but same business model and practice. I wonder how many Russian oligarchs launder money through the Cypriot holding company?

It's not the presumption of innocence we're discussing, but your presumption of guilt when you have yet to identify any act of wrongdoing by Hunter Biden that might rise to the level of criminal.

Rudy, Trump's personal lawyer, is or was getting paid by Firtash, who's an indicted by the U.S. oligarch fighting extradition. So that's like joining a drug cartel and we need the FBI to put Rudy under the gun, right? Toensing and DiGenova too!

 

[Felis Leo]

I see where some are calling for it. But if he truly voted his conscience on the articles of impeachment is that what we should want -- impartial judgment?

If he truly voted his conscience, he should absolutely not resign. And even if he did not vote his conscience but did it for some form of grandstanding or for the plaudits, he need not resign either.

 

[humbolt]

Right, Shokin was supposedly (but actually not) investigating Burisma for crimes that predated 2016, predated Hunter's board seat. If you have evidence otherwise, you can present it, but you cannot. When Shokin was fired is hilariously off point.



It's not the presumption of innocence we're discussing, but your presumption of guilt when you have yet to identify any act of wrongdoing by Hunter Biden that might rise to the level of criminal.

Rudy, Trump's personal lawyer, is or was getting paid by Firtash, who's an indicted by the U.S. oligarch fighting extradition. So that's like joining a drug cartel and we need the FBI to put Rudy under the gun, right? Toensing and DiGenova too!

When Shokin was fired is certainly worth scrutiny. This is not some rabid right wing concoction. No one has said Hunter is guilty of criminal wrong doing.

Here are some others who think the whole Biden/Burisla affair bears scrutiny:

"The United Kingdom Serious Fraud Office, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State George Kent, Hunter Biden’s former business associate, an ABC White House reporter, Good Morning America, ABC, the Washington Post, the New York Times, Ukrainian Law Enforcement, and the Obama State Department itself . . . They all thought there was cause to raise the issue about the Bidens and Burisma."

Pam Bondi on the floor of the US Senate recently.

 

[Overitall]

If he truly voted his conscience, he should absolutely not resign. And even if he did not vote his conscience but did it for some form of grandstanding or for the plaudits, he need not resign either.

I’m curious. Can you expand on your thoughts for why even those would not merit his resignation?

 

[Felis Leo]

I’m curious. Can you expand on your thoughts for why even those would not merit his resignation?

Because sometimes cynically grandstanding for good causes is of benefit to our society.

 

[DiAnna]

Lindsay Graham hasn't held a town hall in years. Now that's what I call TUNED IN !!

:lol:

He'd better start; Graham is up for re-election this year.

 

[DiAnna]

I see where some are calling for it. But if he truly voted his conscience on the articles of impeachment is that what we should want -- impartial judgment?

Absolutely, that's what we should want, and the majority of Americans did want. That's not what Senate Republicans wanted, however, even those who admitted the House Managers had proven their case that Trump's behavior was "inappropriate".