Fast food workers in walkout to demand double the pay...

[jmotivator]

tell that to the people at McDonalds Corporate HQ. They are making bucks.

They have college degrees and do jobs that none of the cashiers can do.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Like you're the only one who has? If you knew anything about being a single parent, THEN you'd learn about what work is.

My mother was married to a raving alcoholic, and when I was 9, she kicked him out. She had to take three jobs, and basically starve herself. When I was 16, I worked 30 hours a week at a drugstore while in high school to help with the bills. I don't know what it's like to be a "normal" teenager, because I was too busy working and being the one who did the chores at home (when I could have been having a nice childhood). There were strings of days where I never saw my mother at all, despite living in the same house.

So if you're bringing up the "knowing about being a single parent" bit, you're cordially invited to kiss my rosy-red ass, and make it sexy. Don't tell me about you and "your wife's" hardships. At least you had each other. My mother was alone with a kid. She had to hire a lawyer (with money she didn't have) to track the alcoholic down, just to squeeze $100/month in child support, and even that was hard to get out of him, because he was always trying to avoid it.

I think you need to stop soon, before you really make an ass out of yourself, because now you're getting personal as well as losing the argument.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Obviously you aren't taking the job "gladly" if you plan to bitch and moan that you need your pay doubled. Sorry, the world doesn't work this way.

FYI, it can work this way - 'doesn't' is not the same thing as 'can't'. To give an example, Sam's Club - from the same fine people who depend upon the government to subsidize their payroll at Wal-Mart - pays really low wages. Costco, on the other hand, pays a living wage...and Costco is clearly outperforming Sam's Club. Here's why (from the Harvard Business Review):

Costco’s practices are clearly more expensive, but they have an offsetting cost-containment effect: Turnover is unusually low, at 17% overall and just 6% after one year’s employment. In contrast, turnover at Wal-Mart is 44% a year, close to the industry average. In skilled and semi-skilled jobs, the fully loaded cost of replacing a worker who leaves (excluding lost productivity) is typically 1.5 to 2.5 times the worker’s annual salary. To be conservative, let’s assume that the total cost of replacing an hourly employee at Costco or Sam’s Club is only 60% of his or her annual salary. If a Costco employee quits, the cost of replacing him or her is therefore $21,216. If a Sam’s Club employee leaves, the cost is $12,617. At first glance, it may seem that the low-wage approach at Sam’s Club would result in lower turnover costs. But if its turnover rate is the same as Wal-Mart’s, Sam’s Club loses more than twice as many people as Costco does: 44% versus 17%. By this calculation, the total annual cost to Costco of employee churn is $244 million, whereas the total annual cost to Sam’s Club is $612 million. That’s $5,274 per Sam’s Club employee, versus $3,628 per Costco employee.

So paying a living wage to your workers - instead of paying the 'going rate' - is actually SAVING Costco beaucoup bucks. So much for your theory that "that's not the way the world works".

Since I was young and had no real skill I went looking for the hard jobs that were also unskilled. Most of them involved shovels. I quickly learned that the worse the stuff you were asked to shovel the better the pay. So it came to be that I made far more than double minimum wage for literally shoveling crap.

No argument there - hey, I wipe butts for a living, and I'm doing pretty well. But as I demonstrated above, that's no reason not to pay a living wage.

Think about it - what's the turnover at Mickey D's? Pretty doggone high, right? But what would happen if, say, McDonald's was to minimize its turnover rate just as Costco has by paying its people a living wage? Not only would they save money just as Costco does, but they could also use the practice as an advertisement, for there's a LOT of people out there (including me) who would prefer to patronize a business that pays a living wage even if they have to charge 25 cents extra per item.

 

[trfjr]

My mother was married to a raving alcoholic, and when I was 9, she kicked him out. She had to take three jobs, and basically starve herself. When I was 16, I worked 30 hours a week at a drugstore while in high school to help with the bills. I don't know what it's like to be a "normal" teenager, because I was too busy working and being the one who did the chores at home (when I could have been having a nice childhood). There were strings of days where I never saw my mother at all, despite living in the same house.

So if you're bringing up the "knowing about being a single parent" bit, you're cordially invited to kiss my rosy-red ass, and make it sexy. Don't tell me about you and "your wife's" hardships. At least you had each other. My mother was alone with a kid. She had to hire a lawyer (with money she didn't have) to track the alcoholic down, just to squeeze $100/month in child support, and even that was hard to get out of him, because he was always trying to avoid it.

I think you need to stop soon, before you really make an ass out of yourself, because now you're getting personal as well as losing the argument.

doesn't look like a single mother have it so bad. hell i wouldn't mind making 29,000 a year and have over 57,000 in benefits plus net income

 

[trfjr]

FYI, it can work this way - 'doesn't' is not the same thing as 'can't'. To give an example, Sam's Club - from the same fine people who depend upon the government to subsidize their payroll at Wal-Mart - pays really low wages. Costco, on the other hand, pays a living wage...and Costco is clearly outperforming Sam's Club. Here's why (from the Harvard Business Review):

Costco’s practices are clearly more expensive, but they have an offsetting cost-containment effect: Turnover is unusually low, at 17% overall and just 6% after one year’s employment. In contrast, turnover at Wal-Mart is 44% a year, close to the industry average. In skilled and semi-skilled jobs, the fully loaded cost of replacing a worker who leaves (excluding lost productivity) is typically 1.5 to 2.5 times the worker’s annual salary. To be conservative, let’s assume that the total cost of replacing an hourly employee at Costco or Sam’s Club is only 60% of his or her annual salary. If a Costco employee quits, the cost of replacing him or her is therefore $21,216. If a Sam’s Club employee leaves, the cost is $12,617. At first glance, it may seem that the low-wage approach at Sam’s Club would result in lower turnover costs. But if its turnover rate is the same as Wal-Mart’s, Sam’s Club loses more than twice as many people as Costco does: 44% versus 17%. By this calculation, the total annual cost to Costco of employee churn is $244 million, whereas the total annual cost to Sam’s Club is $612 million. That’s $5,274 per Sam’s Club employee, versus $3,628 per Costco employee.

So paying a living wage to your workers - instead of paying the 'going rate' - is actually SAVING Costco beaucoup bucks. So much for your theory that "that's not the way the world works".



No argument there - hey, I wipe butts for a living, and I'm doing pretty well. But as I demonstrated above, that's no reason not to pay a living wage.

Think about it - what's the turnover at Mickey D's? Pretty doggone high, right? But what would happen if, say, McDonald's was to minimize its turnover rate just as Costco has by paying its people a living wage? Not only would they save money just as Costco does, but they could also use the practice as an advertisement, for there's a LOT of people out there (including me) who would prefer to patronize a business that pays a living wage even if they have to charge 25 cents extra per item.

comparing Costco to fast food is a very unfair comparison first Costco only has one competitor there are dozens of fast food restaurants competing for that lunch dollar
McDonalds doesn't charge you a yearly fee to eat there

 

[Velvet Elvis]

View attachment 67151367

doesn't look like a single mother have it so bad. hell i wouldn't mind making 29,000 a year and have over 57,000 in benefits plus net income

And it's not like I'm piling on single mothers for no reason. Look...there are a LOT of single mothers in the office I work at. But look...they don't work at a freakin' McDonalds!!! They learned how to type. They learned how to work a computer (and not just for Facebook, or sending LOLCAT pictures). They learned how to be efficient and responsible. They learned how to get away from freakin' McDonalds! (And none of those skills require a college degree).

As what I said early...it's about personal responsibility (generally, for some "you know who's" in this thread). It's about realizing that maybe you made the decision to drop out of high school. Maybe you didn't bother with college. Maybe you have this hipster "utopian" outlook in life that you should just go frolic somewhere and be happy without a care in the world. Guess what...the world doesn't care about you. You need to care about you. If you don't...there are millions of people totally willing to walk right over you. After that...there you are in your garbage, entry-level job feeling sorry for yourself, because you made crap choices in life.

 

[MaggieD]

comparing Costco to fast food is a very unfair comparison first Costco only has one competitor there are dozens of fast food restaurants competing for that lunch dollar
McDonalds doesn't charge you a yearly fee to eat there

Another comparison worth mentioning:

Average age of a Costco worker: 27 Business | Costco Cuts Costs By Cutting Wages | Seattle Times Newspaper

Average age of a McDonald's worker: 20 What is the average age of a McDonald's employee? :: McDonalds.co.uk

Raise the pay to $15? All those high schoolers are going to be out of work. *shrug*

 

[trfjr]

Another comparison worth mentioning:

Average age of a Costco worker: 27 Business | Costco Cuts Costs By Cutting Wages | Seattle Times Newspaper

Average age of a McDonald's worker: 20 What is the average age of a McDonald's employee? :: McDonalds.co.uk

Raise the pay to $15? All those high schoolers are going to be out of work. *shrug*

this is to much
Costco the liberals poster boy on business takes a dump on them.:lamo so instead of cutting the wages of the corperate higher ups they give the lowly worker the crap end of the stick, Poetic justice

 

[Arbo]

So funny watching people get mad at them for even trying it. Its like backhanding your maid for daring to make eye contact with you.

Nobody is getting mad, they are just pointing out that places like McDonalds are STARTER jobs, not jobs to support a family with.

 

[Arbo]

And there you're blaming the girls - conservatives often do that.

Didn't take long for this to enter the discussion. In the end, yes, if you decided to bring a child into the world, it is your responsibility. If you do it without an education or good work skills to enable you to get a job that will allow you to support that kid, it is your own fault.

 

[Stewart]

Another comparison worth mentioning:

Average age of a Costco worker: 27 Business | Costco Cuts Costs By Cutting Wages | Seattle Times Newspaper

Average age of a McDonald's worker: 20 What is the average age of a McDonald's employee? :: McDonalds.co.uk

Raise the pay to $15? All those high schoolers are going to be out of work. *shrug*

Not always. As I have pointed out before it is possible to have a graduated minimum wage. Ofc, you'd have older people out of work or having less hours. Tho people working the day shift would be alright, presumably.

 

[tererun]

Where's the beef? Fast-food workers in walkout to protest low wages | Fox News




$15 bucks an hour? It's ******* fast food you idiots! If you want a job to live on, one that is now a 'starter' job for any moron, then get out of flipping burgers and asking 'do you want fries with that'. Good lord.

As if it takes enough skill or work to warrant that kind of money. The entitlement mentality generation for sure. [/FONT][/COLOR]

First off, the reality is these locations may actually need a much different minimum wage than others. I grew up in Putnam county NY. It was a step outside of westchester and then you got to the NYC counties. The expenses of these areas to live in were astronomical compared to most areas of the US. Putnam was the best being further from the city, but there was a reason your salary for most jobs increased by a grand every mile closer to the city you got. To live in a bedroom (not an apartment) in putnam ran above 600 a month. At minimum wage you were talking about earning 800 a month which left only 200 a month to spend afterwards, and as you got into westchester and NYC the rents skyrocketed from there. Just the land taxes on a house can run you tens of thousands a year and for many properties run around 2 grand a month. You also pay a lot more for all commercial goods as everything is much more expensive. There is a huge increase in the cost of living in these high demand places, and it is not just the taxes. One of the reasons NYC has suffered huge commercial losses over the years is because you can now move places because of technology and work in lower cost areas.

I would also like to note that skill is not the only reason to get paid enough to live. People who put in the ffort of a hard job which is normally what minimum wage workers do perform essential work which allows the higher skilled people to have jobs. The management and skilled staffers of mcDonalds like the IT people who keep their POS systems working would not have the ability to cook the burgers while they work. Without the low end people in a place of business you would have no jobs open for a skilled worker. Do you think the engineers at Ford or other car companies work on the line making the cars? Do you think papa John's CEOs are going to make all the pizzas across the country? The people at the bottom make it possible for the higher paid workers to have a job, and you should be respecting that reality. If the low end workers were not forced to work at crappy wages the upper level people would be out of a job. If every one of those people quit to go into a higher skilled area of work no one would do the most labor intensive requirements for that business to exist. So i do see that they deserve money for their efforts that allow everyone else to reap the benefits of a business.

There is one thing i have been noticing. People like you enjoy a low class minimum wage slave. It is your chance to be a slimeball asshole like the greedy rich. You can crap all over those people and treat them like **** to make yourself feel better. That is why you love them making a crappy wage because then you have someone you can lord your meager salary over. There are so many people who oppose a living wage just because they love to lord things over other people and keep up a pretense that they are better than everyone else. It is sick and disgusting. I have worked those jobs and i have the ability to remember the treatment that comes from the so called superior skilled workers. People like you come in daily with no legitimate complaint just because you like to scoff and laugh at the people behind the counter, and you are so selfish you do not have any concern for the reality that they work hard and form the base of our society that is necessary for you to live the life you have grown accustomed to. You enjoy treating them like crap because it makes you feel important, and you know you are not. What is worse is so that you have the ability to crap on those people you eat crap from the rich every day to be allowed to do that. It is pretty damned sad and pathetic.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

$15pr/hr is not much less than I make and I work my ****ing ass off doing a job a whole hell of a lot more important than fast food.

This. It's *more* than I make, doing a skilled job serving the disabled that usually requires a degree. I would argue my job is more important than Big Macs.

$8.50? Even $9? I'd be in their corner. They do make too little to live on, and you can't ignore the fact that with the economy like it is, a lot of young adults are forced to work jobs like this after college.

But you can live on $9 in most cities. I've done it. And it wasn't even all that hard. I still had my own apartment, a phone plan, internet, and a cat. I managed all of those things just fine. Rent and bills were always paid and I always had food for both myself and kitty.

But $15? That's a joke. If they want that kind of money, they should acquire an actual skill and then fight like a badger to get paid for it, like everyone else.

I've been there, in those bottom-of-the-barrel jobs. I know how bad it is. I feel for them. But this is just straight-up insane. It's one thing to ask for a living wage, and another to have delusions of grandeur.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Try living in the city even by yourself on even $10/hour before taxes. It ain't easy...and if one is the breadwinner of a family (as too many single mothers are), it's doggone near impossible. Try walking the other guy's moccasins for a mile or two before you start judging him for what he says or does.

Been there, done that. It wasn't that hard. I still had all kinds of luxuries, like pets, my own place, a rather unnecessarily large phone plan, and pretty fast internet. I even had enough money to eat mostly organic food.

It was really quite simple. You just have to not be totally careless. That's all it takes to live decently on $10 an hour in most cities, except the very most expensive.

But even in those more expensive places, $15 is way more than enough to live on, and I cannot see any justification for demanding $15 an hour for a totally unskilled job.

 

[tererun]

This. It's *more* than I make, doing a skilled job serving the disabled that usually requires a degree. I would argue my job is more important than Big Macs.

$8.50? Even $9? I'd be in their corner. They do make too little to live on, and you can't ignore the fact that with the economy like it is, a lot of young adults are forced to work jobs like this after college.

But you can live on $9 in most cities. I've done it. And it wasn't even all that hard. I still had my own apartment, a phone plan, internet, and a cat. I managed all of those things just fine. Rent and bills were always paid and I always had food for both myself and kitty.

But $15? That's a joke. If they want that kind of money, they should acquire an actual skill and then fight like a badger to get paid for it, like everyone else.

I've been there, in those bottom-of-the-barrel jobs. I know how bad it is. I feel for them. But this is just straight-up insane. It's one thing to ask for a living wage, and another to have delusions of grandeur.

Just a small point, in the area of NYC 15 an hour is a pretty low wage for anyone. For doing the same exact job you would be paid a lot more in NYC than even a few miles outside of the city. Lots of people around NYC, and many other cities, travel long distances into the city because the salaries are so much higher than working near their homes. I know people who would commute 3 hours one way just for the salaries in the city, and because it was so much cheaper away from the city to live they would keep a lot more of their pay with those insane commutes. I am always amazed people in the souther states complain about a 15 minute or half hour commute because an hour to an hour and a half one way was normal for where i grew up just so you could get the money. Of course, people working in fast food are not going to be able to do that sort of commute so they are forced into much higher rents and cost of living expenses to live near their job.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Just a small point, in the area of NYC 15 an hour is a pretty low wage for anyone. For doing the same exact job you would be paid a lot more in NYC than even a few miles outside of the city. Lots of people around NYC, and many other cities, travel long distances into the city because the salaries are so much higher than working near their homes. I know people who would commute 3 hours one way just for the salaries in the city, and because it was so much cheaper away from the city to live they would keep a lot more of their pay with those insane commutes. I am always amazed people in the souther states complain about a 15 minute or half hour commute because an hour to an hour and a half one way was normal for where i grew up just so you could get the money. Of course, people working in fast food are not going to be able to do that sort of commute so they are forced into much higher rents and cost of living expenses to live near their job.

That I could concede, and that's why I said "most cities." But if you're going to argue that, then you should hike the entire wage scheme for everyone in exceptionally expensive places, not unbalance it so that an unskilled worker is making more than an college educated entry-level worker. And I still think demanding $15 for that kind of work is a little audacious, even then.

Also, there are lots of options besides having your own apartment, and thus footing 100% of the household expenses. Living well sharing a house is still living well. And in a lot of places in Europe, even higher-paid people have to do that because living is so expensive.

 

[ItAin'tFree]

Nothing against these cats for wanting more money but they sure are going about getting it in a stupid way.

If they like having a job, they can't get paid double what they are worth. A better path to more money would be to develop skills in another area and move on. But then why have they not already done this as many before them have?

I try to avoid the fast food joints to begin with unless I'm in a hurry. But if the prices go up at those places because they are paying a $7.50 worker $15, well, no need for me to stop there at all. I'll pack a lunch.

 

[tererun]

That I could concede, and that's why I said "most cities." But if you're going to argue that, then you should hike the entire wage scheme for everyone in exceptionally expensive places, not unbalance it so that an unskilled worker is making more than an college educated entry-level worker. And I still think demanding $15 for that kind of work is a little audacious, even then.

Also, there are lots of options besides having your own apartment, and thus footing 100% of the household expenses. Living well sharing a house is still living well. And in a lot of places in Europe, even higher-paid people have to do that because living is so expensive.

I will; agree that minimum wage in certain areas is OK. If you can get full time employment on minimum wage in certain rural areas you can get by. There is a problem with how companies do avoid hiring full time work in lower positions which makes it a bit more of a problem, but if you do live within your means and do not go out and get into huge debt or spend on bling you can live ok on minimum wage. The reality is that low end workers become even more of a necessity in high traffic areas like cities where the cost of living always goes up. So it is important that workers in cities and even in many suberbs get compensated higher as they do make more money for the company and provide the company with the ability to operate those locations which are much more desirable. I can see that an across the board rise in minumum wage would not be a solution.

 

[Master PO]

aw hell!....give them whatever they desire $50 of more and hour , gold standard healthcare, 6 weeks paid vacation, and a pay trip to Europe , and a gold watch after they have bagged one million burgers...........come on-------------> its only fair!

are not laws based on fairness, and how we feel about things, isn't our emotions supposed to tell us what is right.

I say give them a raise they demand........ screw McDonald's, run them out of business., that will teach them, they mean business.

 

[tererun]

Nothing against these cats for wanting more money but they sure are going about getting it in a stupid way.

If they like having a job, they can't get paid double what they are worth. A better path to more money would be to develop skills in another area and move on. But then why have they not already done this as many before them have?

I try to avoid the fast food joints to begin with unless I'm in a hurry. But if the prices go up at those places because they are paying a $7.50 worker $15, well, no need for me to stop there at all. I'll pack a lunch.

That is laughable. Americans are not going to pack a lunch. You could already save a ton of money by not buying at fast food places. This idea that america would give up McDonalds or other fast food places is just insane. The people who eat that sort of food eat it because they like it. It is not even that cheap anymore. I could go to a diner and get the same exact type of meal for a dollar or two less, and it is better quality. It is not just fast food, it is a habit for many. It is quick, it is easy, and it tastes good. It is a taste you cannot get anywhere else, and they make it that way. You cannot make KFC at home. You cannot cook a hamburger like McDonalds yourself. That is by design put into recipe. Because of that people do not look into their rising costs that much. I watch people spend 15 dollars or more on fast food meals, and you can get a good meal at a restaurant for that money.

I am just saying people are not going to stop buying from these places for a dollar or two more. People are not going to go through the hassel of waking up early to make their meals and pack them up just to save a dollar. The people who are willing to do it are already doing it.

 

[longview]

That is laughable. Americans are not going to pack a lunch. You could already save a ton of money by not buying at fast food places. This idea that america would give up McDonalds or other fast food places is just insane. The people who eat that sort of food eat it because they like it. It is not even that cheap anymore. I could go to a diner and get the same exact type of meal for a dollar or two less, and it is better quality. It is not just fast food, it is a habit for many. It is quick, it is easy, and it tastes good. It is a taste you cannot get anywhere else, and they make it that way. You cannot make KFC at home. You cannot cook a hamburger like McDonalds yourself. That is by design put into recipe. Because of that people do not look into their rising costs that much. I watch people spend 15 dollars or more on fast food meals, and you can get a good meal at a restaurant for that money.

I am just saying people are not going to stop buying from these places for a dollar or two more. People are not going to go through the hassel of waking up early to make their meals and pack them up just to save a dollar. The people who are willing to do it are already doing it.

Necessity is a mother! You would be amazed what people will be when they don't have a choice.
I am not in retail, and don't know the portion of the cost of goods sold the labor is for a happy meal,
but doubling the labor cost would change the ratio.
Inflation is an economy killer, because unlike Governments, people can and do change their spending
habits as their finances change.

 

[GottaGo]

Try living in the city even by yourself on even $10/hour before taxes. It ain't easy...and if one is the breadwinner of a family (as too many single mothers are), it's doggone near impossible. Try walking the other guy's moccasins for a mile or two before you start judging him for what he says or does.

People make choices with their lives.... and they and only they are responsible for those choices.

I chose to move from the NE, where I could be making double what I do here, but then my COL would have been close to double. I made the choice of less stress for less money. No one else should have to pay for my choice.

No one made them become single mothers, nor make them live in the city, those are choices they made. I don't think anybody owes them anything for making those choices.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

People make choices with their lives.... and they and only they are responsible for those choices.

I chose to move from the NE, where I could be making double what I do here, but then my COL would have been close to double. I made the choice of less stress for less money. No one else should have to pay for my choice.

No one made them become single mothers, nor make them live in the city, those are choices they made. I don't think anybody owes them anything for making those choices.

"no one made them become single mothers"? Yeah, guys NEVER leave a girl once she becomes pregnant or has a baby, huh? Guys NEVER divorce a woman because they've found someone else, and women NEVER leave a man to get out of an abusive relationship.

Yep! It's always the WOMAN'S fault, I guess!

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Didn't take long for this to enter the discussion. In the end, yes, if you decided to bring a child into the world, it is your responsibility. If you do it without an education or good work skills to enable you to get a job that will allow you to support that kid, it is your own fault.

Yes, BLAME THE WOMAN! 'Cause guys never leave when the woman gets pregnant and has the baby, guys never decide that they've just found someone better and want to leave, and women never, ever leave an abusive relationship.

BLAME THE WOMAN!

 

[Arbo]

Yes, BLAME THE WOMAN! 'Cause guys never leave when the woman gets pregnant and has the baby, guys never decide that they've just found someone better and want to leave, and women never, ever leave an abusive relationship.

BLAME THE WOMAN!

I find your posts to have no value... at all. Because they are so far removed from the reality of the large majority of cases out there. But it is understandable that most self labeled 'progressives' refuse the path of personal responsibility in themselves and others.