Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[Porchev]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I think this is about right:

"I think it’s pretty clear now – based on the information we do have – that this Zimmerman guy was a self-important hot-headed and completely unprepared and unqualified cop wannabe who was way over-impressed with his own value to the neighborhood as a guardian of their safety. He also seems to carry a prejudice against young black males wearing hoodies … a prejudice that ended in tragedy. I’m hopeful that the Grand Jury will do its job when it convenes in just over three weeks and charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder."

Trayvon Martin | Nealz Nuze | www.boortz.com

 

[j-mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I don't believe that happened. Trayvon was on the phone with a friend at that moment who he was informing of the situation. I would think he would have told his friend that the guy following him had a gun.

yeah, you're probably right, but I do find that part odd.

j-mac

 

[ric27]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You know what gets me, and was discussed earlier by another member, was that Zim said to the 911 operator that Martin was approaching him, then all the sudden he seemed to have turned and ran. Now no one has said it, and I realize that this is my pure speculation, but how much y'all wanna bet that Martin turned and ran because Zimmerman brandished his gun....?


j-mac

I realize that this is my pure speculation

Why not stick with the facts- such as they may be and view them with a cold heart, and not influenced by what may occur after those facts are presented.

Is it too much to ask?

 

[j-mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

but you would think if he was aware of the gun the kid would have communicated that to his girl friend during their call

Yeah, SY pointed that out....It just bugs me...If the kid was approaching Zimmerman, probably to ask him what he wanted, then why'd he turn and run?

j-mac

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Why not stick with the facts- such as they may be and view them with a cold heart, and not influenced by what may occur after those facts are presented.

Is it too much to ask?

I think it's because most everyone realizes that, had Zimmerman not exited his car, that kid would still be alive.

 

[j-mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Why not stick with the facts- such as they may be and view them with a cold heart, and not influenced by what may occur after those facts are presented.

Is it too much to ask?

Well, we have limited facts available. Just spit balling here, and I realize that I was speculating...Just conversation, that's all...


j-mac

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I have no way of knowing. But we do know that most of what Zimmerman has stated has been verified by witnesess.

Another thing I know, is that Zimmerman couldn't have planned it out. It all happened quickly, the cops arrived quickly since they were already on their way and no one is planning out a defense while getting their "fat ass tossed to the ground". You really have to make gigantic leaps to believe that.

I whole heartedly agree this was not planned out. I also don't believe Zimmerman had anything but the utmost intentions of protecting his neighborhood. I believe Zimmerman acted improperly as a neighborhood watchman ... against the guidelines of the neighborhood watch program ... against the advice of the training he received to be a neighborhood watchman ... against the advice of the 911 dispatcher. All fingers point to him as being the cause of there even being a confrontation at all.

Some here are trying to rely on the fact that Zimmerman's actions were likely not "illegal," and that very well might be true; but that doesn't mean his actions aren't negligent. They are. The evidence of that is that he ignored at least 3 different warnings about following a suspect and not leaving that job to the proper law enforcement. If someone dies as the result of another's negligence, it's still a very serious crime.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I think it's because most everyone realizes that, had Zimmerman not exited his car, that kid would still be alive.

why would zimmerman know to anticipate such results as would follow
he was trying to keep tabs of someone he thought was a potential perp until the police showed up

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Don't kid yourself. Hell, I've got my defense all planned out should I ever have to shoot someone in my home. I know exactly what to say.

In Florida, you don't need plan out a defense. If the person is someone you don't know and they are illegally entering your home, you can kill them.

 

[j-mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

In Florida, you don't need plan out a defense. If the person is someone you don't know and they are illegally entering your home, you can kill them.

Not just Florida, I think that there are some 28 states that have valid protect your home laws on the books, and in fact those with "retreat" laws are relatively few.


j-mac

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You know what gets me, and was discussed earlier by another member, was that Zim said to the 911 operator that Martin was approaching him, then all the sudden he seemed to have turned and ran. Now no one has said it, and I realize that this is my pure speculation, but how much y'all wanna bet that Martin turned and ran because Zimmerman brandished his gun....?
j-mac

I suspect it was more a function of where Trayvon was coming from and going to and where Zimmerman parked

28°47'37.42"N 81°19'50.78"W - Google Maps

walking from teh 7-11 brings him directly in teh entrance and then through some yards toward where he was going.

Zimmerman say he parked by the mail boxes which puts him tangentially along the path Martin may have taken. Hence the moving toward and then away from Z--M went past him on his way to somewhere else.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

missed that little detail
never realized that zimmerman apprehended the kid had been found to be a fact
how about showing a cite where i can read about it for myself

The entire situation revolves around the START of the "fight".

The only witness to that so far is Zimmerman. His story may very well be true. It may very well not be.

The only eyewitness is the one with the smoking gun.

All of the evidence points to a fight in which Martin got the upper hand. It does NOT support Zims story that he was attacked from behind. It doesn't CONTRADICT it, but it doesn't corroborate it either.

HOW the physical confrontation started is the most relevant detail in the whole episode.

And the only eye witness is the person who has the most reason to lie about it. Again, can't say he did, but common sense suggests his version be taken with some skepticism.

I think the officers on the scene probably made the right call in not arresting Zim. He lives in the area, has community ties,etc. And on its face it is more likely he is telling the truth than not. They should have done toxicology on Zim. They did it on Martin.

It was afterward, when the call to the GF surfaced and called into question Zims story that an actual investigation should have been launched. It doesn't appear that this was the case. It is now, and I'm good with that.

We're all playing super-sleuth here. So far nobody can be remotely sure what actually went down. Neither side of the argument has a factual leg to stand on as to who initiated the physical fight.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I suspect it was more a function of where Trayvon was coming from and going to and where Zimmerman parked

28°47'37.42"N 81°19'50.78"W - Google Maps

walking from teh 7-11 brings him directly in teh entrance and then through some yards toward where he was going.

Zimmerman say he parked by the mail boxes which puts him tangentially along the path Martin may have taken. Hence the moving toward and then away from Z--M went past him on his way to somewhere else.

:rofl

Now I've seen everything!

Good job, Simon! Maybe you missed your calling!

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The entire situation revolves around the START of the "fight".

The only witness to that so far is Zimmerman. His story may very well be true. It may very well not be.

The only eyewitness is the one with the smoking gun.

All of the evidence points to a fight in which Martin got the upper hand. It does NOT support Zims story that he was attacked from behind. It doesn't CONTRADICT it, but it doesn't corroborate it either.

HOW the physical confrontation started is the most relevant detail in the whole episode.

And the only eye witness is the person who has the most reason to lie about it. Again, can't say he did, but common sense suggests his version be taken with some skepticism.

I think the officers on the scene probably made the right call in not arresting Zim. He lives in the area, has community ties,etc. And on its face it is more likely he is telling the truth than not. They should have done toxicology on Zim. They did it on Martin.

It was afterward, when the call to the GF surfaced and called into question Zims story that an actual investigation should have been launched. It doesn't appear that this was the case. It is now, and I'm good with that.

We're all playing super-sleuth here. So far nobody can be remotely sure what actually went down. Neither side of the argument has a factual leg to stand on as to who initiated the physical fight.

so then you acknowledge you just made that **** up about zimmerman apprehending the kid

 

[missypea]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Don't kid yourself. Hell, I've got my defense all planned out should I ever have to shoot someone in my home. I know exactly what to say.

Same here, lady. I expect we aren't the only two people in the world who have given that some thought

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

the 911 tapes are actual evidence.

Zimmerman's clear state of mind, is evidence.

I have never dismissed the 911 tapes or Zimmerman's state of mind at the point of his arrest.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Once Zimmerman took off on foot to chase Travon in the dark because the teenager ran away from him, Zimmerman lost his claim to self defense.

Keeping someone under observation until the police arrive is not giving chase. It is not wrong behavior that surrenders his claim to self defense.

 

[j-mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Keeping someone under observation until the police arrive is not giving chase. It is not wrong behavior that surrenders his claim to self defense.

No it isn't, but if you are talking self defense then you are under the rule of meeting force with, and here is the key here...APPROPRIATE RETURN FORCE. Being punched in the nose, and shooting someone are two totally different levels of force.

j-mac

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

All of the evidence points to a fight in which Martin got the upper hand. It does NOT support Zims story that he was attacked from behind. It doesn't CONTRADICT it, but it doesn't corroborate it either.

Just got the upper hand, huh?
Being attacked from behind is not just getting the upper-hand, it is having the upper-hand from the get.
That is what the evidence points to. An attack from behind.
And as the Chief said - no evidence contradicts Zimmerman's statement.
Do you understand the implications of that statement? From what I am seeing you obviously don't.

HOW the physical confrontation started is the most relevant detail in the whole episode.

And as the Chief said - no evidence contradicts Zimmerman's statement.

And the only eye witness is the person who has the most reason to lie about it. Again, can't say he did, but common sense suggests his version be taken with some skepticism.

And as the Chief said - no evidence contradicts Zimmerman's statement.
Someone who would not have had the time or been of the state of mind to concoct a lie that could stand up to scrutiny.

I think the officers on the scene probably made the right call in not arresting Zim. He lives in the area, has community ties,etc. And on its face it is more likely he is telling the truth than not. They should have done toxicology on Zim. They did it on Martin.

Is this factual information you are presenting?
If so please link to all of it.
Because I read the Police report and Zimmerman was taken into custody (arrested), treated and then interviewed.
The rest I have seen no official release, only allegations.

It was afterward, when the call to the GF surfaced and called into question Zims story that an actual investigation should have been launched. It doesn't appear that this was the case. It is now, and I'm good with that.

At what date was the girlfriend's information obtained by the police?
lol

We're all playing super-sleuth here. So far nobody can be remotely sure what actually went down. Neither side of the argument has a factual leg to stand on as to who initiated the physical fight.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

No it isn't, but if you are talking self defense then you are under the rule of meeting force with, and here is the key here...APPROPRIATE RETURN FORCE. Being punched in the nose, and shooting someone are two totally different levels of force.

What was Zimmerman's state of mind at that moment?
What was he thinking?

Keep in mind the following:
Tthe Chief has said that no evidence contradicts his statement.
It was Prosecutors who decided not to charge.

So what do you think Zimmerman's state of mind and his thoughts were at that point?

And I have been trying to work on that lengthy reply you gave me much earlier in between keeping current with others. It is almost finished.

 

[OhIsee.Then]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I have no way of knowing. But we do know that most of what Zimmerman has stated has been verified by witnesess.

Another thing I know, is that Zimmerman couldn't have planned it out. It all happened quickly, the cops arrived quickly since they were already on their way and no one is planning out a defense while getting their "fat ass tossed to the ground". You really have to make gigantic leaps to believe that.

How log was it between when the cops got there and when the questioned Zimmerman? Think about how many things the cops had to do before questioning Zimmerman. (This would only matter in a state w/o a SYGL.)

 

[OhIsee.Then]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Why not stick with the facts- such as they may be and view them with a cold heart, and not influenced by what may occur after those facts are presented.

Is it too much to ask?

Yes, and you can start it to. Na, most of these 'facts' don't matter in a SYGL country.

 

[OhIsee.Then]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I whole heartedly agree this was not planned out. I also don't believe Zimmerman had anything but the utmost intentions of protecting his neighborhood. I believe Zimmerman acted improperly as a neighborhood watchman ... against the guidelines of the neighborhood watch program ... against the advice of the training he received to be a neighborhood watchman ... against the advice of the 911 dispatcher. All fingers point to him as being the cause of there even being a confrontation at all.

Some here are trying to rely on the fact that Zimmerman's actions were likely not "illegal," and that very well might be true; but that doesn't mean his actions aren't negligent. They are. The evidence of that is that he ignored at least 3 different warnings about following a suspect and not leaving that job to the proper law enforcement. If someone dies as the result of another's negligence, it's still a very serious crime.

Not a crime in a SYGL country.

 

[OhIsee.Then]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

why would zimmerman know to anticipate such results as would follow
he was trying to keep tabs of someone he thought was a potential perp until the police showed up

Zimmerman has demonstrated that he anticipates little.
But, anticipation isn't required by the SYGL.

 

[OhIsee.Then]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Keeping someone under observation until the police arrive is not giving chase. It is not wrong behavior that surrenders his claim to self defense.

Oh, I understand, he just kept one of the ones that always get away under observation at a distance, because he might be armed with a pistol, until the police arrived. Yup, sure matches how Zimmerman was talking to the 911 gal. Yup, this is how the SYGL is supposed to work.