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Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Thunder said:
no, it wasn't illegal.

but it was stupid, unneccessary, & provocative.
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Yes it was, I don't argue that. However, Martin's aggresive actions could have been equally stupid as well.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:
LOL, almost like a reversal between us. I hear "coons" and you hear "punks."
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Almost sounds like "kooks" or "koonks". Maybe just a run-on from the "g" sound in "****ing"

But like I said, technology exists to clean up the audio that is probably better than the guy on CNN had access to.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TheNextEra said:
Point being, people are saying he is guilty without knowing everything and basing it only on the media.

all I'm saying is it is premature to saying guilty or not guilty at this point.
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My conclusions aren't based on "the media". They are based on 9/11 tapes, witness accounts, the histories of both participants, Zimmerman's own words and Martin's girlfriend.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TheNextEra said:
Yes it was, I don't argue that. However, Martin's aggresive actions could have been equally stupid as well.
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yes, that is possible.

but the fact is, Zimmerman initiated the stupid & aggressive actions. And his mentality is clear on the tape, by referring to these "assholes always getting away".
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

ThePlayDrive said:
My conclusions aren't based on "the media". They are based on 9/11 tapes, witness accounts, the histories of both participants, Zimmerman's own words and Martin's girlfriend.
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Which you still don't have everything. It's still premature no matter how you look at it.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Thunder said:
yes, that is possible.

but the fact is, Zimmerman initiated the stupid & aggressive actions. And his mentality is clear on the tape, by referring to these "assholes always getting away".
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Again, you don't know Zimmerman's EXACT actions when approaching the kid. There were no cameras, how could you?

Therefore Martin could have been the aggresser in this situation and in the wrong. He might have looked at Zimmerman and thought "I'm going to kick this week beaner's ass".

We don't know everything for sure to make a verdict of guilty or not guillty right now.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Evaluating "racial slurs" and phrases in terms of a personal psychology is sorta hard too. I hear them a lot and always have. When in a more blue collar setting is when I heard them the most, but at least as much towards whites and between people of the same race. Old white folks around here still often use "colored" ("colored people," "colored man" etc). Sometimes even "negro." They do NOT mean it as a slur, because the slur word is "N....r" of course. I hear than now and then too.

Getting backwoods, blue collar and older folks to become "politically correct" is something most aren't interested in. They will (mostly) avoid the N...g word because that certainly is a slur. But otherwise if the phrase was always "colored" or "Negro" they will keep using it. Most people DON'T (even liberals) use African-American, they say "black."

Some phrases die hard. There is an all black water bird around her that was called a "N....r bird" for at least over a century. Most still do because no replacement has been picked. I call them "mud hens" and some are starting to use that.

Slurs are strange. People who never use them can suddenly be raging them at someone else under stress. In fight situations, it is VERY common for one or the other to start raging slurs. That seems to not be because the person was a racist, but rather wants to get under the other person's skin.

I SUSPECT most people - liberal or conservative - are prejudiced in one way or another - race, gender, age, life style, etc etc, but we keep it in check. Its not just people on the right. There is likely as much prejudice against hillbilly and redneck types by those on the left for example.

IF Zimmerman had whispered "f....g coons" to himself, that would be an example of that.
 
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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TheNextEra said:
Again, Zimmerman might have felt he could handle the problem. However, if the kid wasn't really scared and attacked Zimmerman, Zimmerman would be in the right to shoot the kid.

So far many people are just assuming Martin is this nice happy go lucky kid with no aggresive act in his body. We don't know what actions the boy took either.

That's all I'm saying is we don't know all the facts and people are making Zimmerman guilty automatically. It is not illegla to get out of your car.
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I think most people would have been terrified and running like a bat out of hell OR found a way to defend themselves. Being followed is going to cause some worry for the followee and fight or flight is gonna kick in.
So.....if he did turn aggressive on Zimmerman, Zimmerman still created this horrendous outcome with his actions.

:twocents:
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TheNextEra said:
Huh? You'll have to show me where I said anything close to that.

I said I don't know everything and I can't say whether he is guilty or innocent.

The only thing I said about race was Zimmerman (according to the 911 tapes) called Martin a "!#@$# Coon" which is a racist thing to do.

However, just because he said that means that this is all racially motivated.
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Maybe I mixed up which member said what. Sorry.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

What if...? said:
Almost sounds like "kooks" or "koonks". Maybe just a run-on from the "g" sound in "****ing"

But like I said, technology exists to clean up the audio that is probably better than the guy on CNN had access to.
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Or goons from the movie Goonies. Or "loons" - actually referring to the police. Or... or...

Or maybe he saw racoons in trash etc. They are all over around these parts, do cause messes and are night prowlers. They're on our porch and about our house every night trying to raid the animal's food and water.

That's a problem with how the media - acting like "reporters" and not just commentators - are behaving. They declare with 100% certainty that someone saying "coons" is making a racial slur against African Americans. But maybe not at all. The problem is for every question, they assert whatever makes Zimmerman look MOST evil is a certain fact.

I could see days wasted on a trial as the defense calls in animal control officers and dozens of people in the community to say, "sure, there are alot of racoons around here" and acknowledging basically everyone - black. latino or white - calls them just "coons" - doing so to try to make the prosecutor look like he/she is deperately trying to get Zimmerman by making people hate him - because the prosecutor knows he/she doesn't have a case.

That, also, would be analogous to the Casey Anthony case.
 
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Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TheNextEra said:
Again, you don't know Zimmerman's EXACT actions when approaching the kid. There were no cameras, how could you?

Therefore Martin could have been the aggresser in this situation and in the wrong. He might have looked at Zimmerman and thought "I'm going to kick this week beaner's ass".

We don't know everything for sure to make a verdict of guilty or not guillty right now.
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I have NEVER, not ONCE, accused anyone of guilt or murder, in this thread.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I thought this thread was basically dedicated to many people saying let their be justice by having our legal system try this issue. But it needs to be given a chance to get there by an arrest of Zimmerman.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:
Or goons from the movie Goonies. Or "loons" - actually referring to the police. Or... or...

Or maybe he saw racoons in trash etc. They are all over around these parts, do cause messes and are night prowlers. They're on our porch and about our house every night trying to raid the animal's food and water.

That's a problem with how the media - acting like "reporters" and not just commentators - are behaving. They declare with 100% certainty that someone saying "coons" is making a racial slur against African Americans. But maybe not at all. The problem is for every question, they assert whatever makes Zimmerman look MOST evil is a certain fact.

I could see days wasted on a trial as the defense calls in animal control officers and dozens of people in the community to say, "sure, there are alot of racoons around here" and acknowledging basically everyone - black. latino or white - calls them just "coons" - doing so to try to make the prosecutor look like he/she is deperately trying to get Zimmerman by making people hate him - because the prosecutor knows he/she doesn't have a case.

That, also, would be analogous to the Casey Anthony case.
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I actually think the "they always get away" statement is FAR more relevant.

It speaks to the possibility that Zim tried to prevent Martin from "getting away".
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Thunder said:
sorry, but that is not clear at all. I think he may have said "punks".
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He definitely didn't say punks.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

TheNextEra said:
Which you still don't have everything. It's still premature no matter how you look at it.
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I'm just correcting your assertion that people are just making conclusions based on "the media". That's far from the truth. We're basing our conclusions on the same evidence a jury would have - tapes, witness accounts, etc.. And I don't see much meaning in the statement that we still don't have "everything". There is rarely a case where "everything" is ever had, but juries still come to conclusions.

I wouldn't argue that people can say what happened with 100% certainty - no jury is even required to do that, but given all of the copious amounts of factual information that we have, it's pretty easy to come to a reasonable conclusion.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:
I SUSPECT most people - liberal or conservative - are prejudiced in one way or another - race, gender, age, life style, etc etc, but we keep it in check. Its not just people on the right. There is likely as much prejudice against hillbilly and redneck types by those on the left for example.

IF Zimmerman had whispered "f....g coons" to himself, that would be an example of that.
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Excuse me? I agree that we all have prejudices, but I don't go around using or even thinking about using racial slurs. That's not an example of normal ingrained prejudice. That's an example of conscious racism.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:
I think the super short version of this is actually quite simple. Then draw your conclusions.

1. A person who is a member of the neighborhood watch association, saw a man with a hood over his head at 2 pm that he thought was acting suspicious.
2. When that person saw the neighborhood watch person on the phone, he ran around a corner.
3. The neighborhood watch person followed to see where the (to him) suspicious person went to tell the police where when they arrived, who were on the way.
4. The suspicious person (to his mind) got pissed off and attacked the civilian watchmen and was beating him up.
5. While being beat up, the civilian watchman - who unknown to his attacker was legally armed with a concealed handgun - fired a single shot, which killed his attacker.
6. The police arrived and the watchman answered all questions. They noted head injuries to the waitchman in their report and his claiming to have been yelling for help while being attacked but no one came to his aid.
7. It later was discovered the attacker was a 17 year old football player apparently walking back from a 7-11 store.

^That is the short, uneditorized likely true story. From that, draw your conclusions.
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If it's ok with you, I'm going to draw my conclusion based on what's being reported in the news and not from your version of events.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:
Wow! Did you just mess up! You just posted that you know about the Counsel of Conservative Citizens (I don't) and clearly are trying to cleverly promote their agenda by advertising it. We now all know you are openly promoting an anti-black organization and have exposed your true agenda big time. Are there any other racist organizations you promote or just this one? We now all know who you are and what YOUR secret goal is!

^That is tongue-in-cheek only to make a point only. I know you're not a racist. Your asserting I am is equally wrong.

Or, put another way, your message is absurd and most people disregard people (such as you) who search for ways to call people racist. Obviously, if one of is, it's you. I'm not white. I'd think you'd remember that by now as while I don't wear it on my sleeve nor as a chip on my shoulder, I'm Native American/African-American.

So I could proceed to write "FU!", but I don't. The emotions on this matter are high and that gets people (including myself) to post before thinking.

I came across that while searching about the Neighborhood Association and to try to find out what time of day/night this happened in a Google search. Never heard of that group before. Didn't care who they are. Rather, it is just an opposing opinion - meaning not every agrees about this.

I quoted (not endorsed) what that organization said as it appeared with a summary of facts from the Miami Herald, which are relevant in that not all saw Zimmerman as a kook, an African-American member of the Neighborhood Watch thought Zimmerman "is cool" (the media reported - with no support - that everyone knew Zimmerman to be a racist) and that the neighborhood association claims his actions have lead arrest in the past, that it is a high crime neighborhood - and with over 400 calls to 911 per year for that neighborhood, Zimmerman's 40 calls over his watchman career is not extreme as portrayed.
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Fair enough, however, their article is extremely biased against Trayvon. For example, they try to paint him as a troubled youth who was on suspension from school, but then they leave out the reason he was suspended because saying he must have been a bad kid sounds so much worse than revealing he was suspended for tardiness.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

ThePlayDrive said:
He definitely says "coons". It's a hard "c" at the beginning.

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Honestly, when I try to hear coons I hear coons, and when I try to hear punks I hear punks. The first and second clean up sound more like the former, the third and fourth sound more like the latter.
 
Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Thunder said:
there is a hard consonant at the end of the word, before the "s" sound.
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It's an "n".

Ben K. said:
Honestly, when I try to hear coons I hear coons, and when I try to hear punks I hear punks. The first and second clean up sound more like the former, the third and fourth sound more like the latter.
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I have no idea how anybody is hearing "punks". I listened for "punks" as well, but nothing in there even comes close to it. The words are completely different.
 
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