Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[Neal N. Bloeme]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

Black Power is racist like the feminist movement is sexist. :roll:



Quoted for truth.

The New Black Panther Party is nothing but the KKK with darker skin.

 

[rocket88]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The dispatcher did not give an order, but a suggestion. It's not illegal to ignore a suggestion. As for following, in the capacity of NW, that is not illegal.

So far the facts show that what Zimmerman did up until right after he got out of his car was not illegal. From there, we don't know.

Not illegal, but it is an important part of the story. In my mind, he should be responsible for his own actions. If nothing else, he could have avoided any situation where he needed to "defend himself" by simply staying in the car.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Why would anyone have to "come up with something?" If you're in the right, the truth should be adequate.

should ≠ is

 

[Kreton]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

Black Power is racist like the feminist movement is sexist. :roll:



Quoted for truth.

Promoting one race as superior or promoting the advancement of one race over another is racist.

 

[joko104]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

How in hell are the leaders here not being arrested?

U.S. News - Witness: Zimmerman 'never ... tried to help' Trayvon Martin



and from another article

Trayvon Martin case: New Black Panthers offer $10,000 bounty for Trayvon Martin killer George Zimmerman - chicagotribune.com

.

To me this sounds like murder for hire. Last I checked this is a crime. You cannot pay or even offer to pay for the murder of another person.







I sincerely hate that people can walk around shouting "black power" in response to something they perceive as racism. Bunch of idiotic hypocrites. Black Power is racist too.



Groups like this are making things about race. Black community and black men and women that they are referencing are specifically racist. No attempt to conceal it and yet it gets no attention. And what is it exactly that the officer they were berating was supposed to have done in order to keep Trayvon alive?

It is murder-for-hire, clear and simple since Zimmerman is not a fugitive. If the Obama's Justice Department does not act this would be unthinkable.

 

[buck]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Again, you don't know what "evidence" there is in the case, only what has been reported as facts and a lot of that is contradictory. The grand jury will have all the "evidence" in the matter and they won't be sharing it with the press.

Of course. Not only do I agree, i've stated the same thing multiple times. However, we do know, as a fact, that Zim had a head wound and weighed 100 pounds more then Martin.

 

[Gie]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Yes, and in the capacity of NW, that is not illegal.

Did not say it was. I've watched you make this same irrelevant argument about the legality of "following" people and being a NW for days now. The problem with your assertion is one of so what? You think that *point* will really be a viable defense that Zimmerman's lawyers are going to bother using in court? That tangential road to nowhere is hardly the issue being discussed here and sure won't be when the gran jury convenes. The killing of Martin will be the issue, not redundant information about whether Zimmerman was free to follow/stalk Martin before he murdered him.

 

[TheNextEra]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Not illegal, but it is an important part of the story. In my mind, he should be responsible for his own actions. If nothing else, he could have avoided any situation where he needed to "defend himself" by simply staying in the car.

You're right in that it will be an important part of the story, however, you cannot lay claim to guilt by that action.

For instance, if I take a shortcut home and I get attacked by a gangbanger and I shoot him, you could then say if I didn't take the shortcut home I wouldn't have been attacked and had to kill him.

Yes, we are responsible for our own actions, but until right after he got out of his car, Zimmerman's actions were LEGAL. Legal being the important word there.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

It is subjective isn't it?
How long do you think it takes a person who suffers through multiple traumas like he did to regain his wits and concoct a lie that fits the evidence, even that which is unknown to him?

I have no idea. That's why I am not putting a limit on it saying that it was or was not enough time.

He was the yelling for help. Kind of shows he had not intended to kill anyone that evening and shows that he most likely acted in self defense.
To want to concoct a lie he would have to believe he had done wrong. That is not apparent.
Then the multiple traumas he received. Being attacked and beaten, killing someone, and then being taken into custody.
He wasn't of mind to concoct a lie that could stand up to scrutiny. He would have to know that absolutely no one saw the incident start.
Then on top of this he didn't lawyer up and fully cooperated with police.
You can pretty much guarantee he is telling the truth.

Those're all possible.

 

[TheNextEra]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You think that *point* will really be a viable defense that Zimmerman's lawyers are going to bother using in court?

Yes, I do, because I think the prosecution is going to try to lay that part out as a motive.

 

[apdst]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

A little different, insofar as there was no intimidation or crime in the election case.

If two dudes wearing bed sheets and hoods were standing outside a polling house, you would be cool with it? I'm quite sure it wouldn't have been, "different", in that scenario.

This, OTOH, seems like it should be a police matter. btw, the New Black Panther Party has no connection to the original Black Panthers. The NBPP is as racist as any white supremacist group.

Actually, this is a bounty being offered for the kidnapping of a citizen. Kidnapping is a federal crime. This falls under the jurisdiction of the FBI. The FBI is a part of the Department of Justice. And, who is the head honcho of the DOJ?

 

[TheNextEra]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The killing of Martin will be the issue, not redundant information about whether Zimmerman was free to follow/stalk Martin before he murdered him.

Again, he wasn't stalking, you keep using that word and it's not valid. He was following a suspicious person.

You have already said Zimmerman is guilty of murder without knowing what for sure happened after he got out of his car.

That is not, thankfully, how the justice system works.

 

[apdst]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

Black Power is racist like the feminist movement is sexist. :roll:

As a matter of fact, the feminazis are sexist. They promote gender superiority.

 

[Gie]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Of course. Not only do I agree, i've stated the same thing multiple times. However, we do know, as a fact, that Zim had a head wound and weighed 100 pounds more then Martin.

Yeah, after following Martin and then approaching Martin, he got into a fight with Martin. Then he shot Martin. Afterwards, Martin is dead and Zim has a broken nose and head wound. I'm pretty sure this will explain why he shot Martin come Zim's court day. IMO Zim got into a fight, started to lose it and pulled his gun because he did not want to take an ass kicking. Reminds me of a speech by John Witherspoon at the end of "Friday".

 

[buck]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

rather than just let the police play judge.

The police didn't "play judge". They forwarded their investigation to teh DA who determined their was not enough to charge Zim with a crime.

Here's another piece of contradictory evidence. Not going to change anybody's mind, but here it is:

While I can see that the first line may have confused you, that is not the least bit contradictory. One witness discussed what was happening prior to the shooting. The other witness indicated what she saw after Martin was already shot.

 

[Kreton]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

This entire case has spiraled too far out of control. It is no longer about guilt vs innocence. It is not about truth. This case is now about race and only race. About a two weeks ago I started following this story. I was calling for more information, more of an investigation. It was pretty clear that all the facts were not known. I thought Zimmerman was guilty of something (still do) based on the information made public. My only hope was that a grand jury be convened and that all the facts were made clear. At this point none of that matters any more. Trayvon's family, the NBPP are using the tragic death of this young man to fuel their own racial hatred. They are exhibiting everything they are condemning in Zimmerman. Even if the justice department and a grand jury come back and state the Zimmerman acted in self defense and that he violated no laws, and even if they very thoroughly explain why, they will not be happy. They will continue to view this as a racial cover up. They have no interest in justice. They only want to promote hate.

 

[buck]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Yeah, after following Martin and then approaching Martin, he got into a fight with Martin. Then he shot Martin. Afterwards, Martin is dead and Zim has a broken nose and head wound. I'm pretty sure this will explain why he shot Martin come Zim's court day. IMO Zim got into a fight, started to lose it and pulled his gun because he did not want to take an ass kicking. Reminds me of a speech by John Witherspoon at the end of "Friday".

Yes, I understand your conjecture. However, I find it highly unlikely that a 260 pound man is going to lose a fight to a 140 pound man (who allegedly has no history of fighting) in which the bigger man starts it.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

My understanding is that you are alleging that Zim chased after Martin, caught him and accosted him - started a fight - or whatever.

The evidence against that:
Zim had a bleeding wound to the back of his head - probably did not start as a fair fight or with Zim as the attacker.
Martin was on top of Zim and apparently attacking him despite being more than 100 pounds lighter - Probably did not start out as a fair fight or with the heavier individual as the attacker.

Neither one of those things is actually evidence which bears on who started the fight imho

You're right in that it will be an important part of the story, however, you cannot lay claim to guilt by that action.

This is true

For instance, if I take a shortcut home and I get attacked by a gangbanger and I shoot him, you could then say if I didn't take the shortcut home I wouldn't have been attacked and had to kill him. Yes, we are responsible for our own actions, but until right after he got out of his car, Zimmerman's actions were LEGAL. Legal being the important word there.

This is minding you own business. What Z did was to go mind M's business. If it can be shown that M had reason to fear Z or some other thing in one of those veins, the pursuit might make a difference.
I have read attorneys weighing in on both sides of the issue--most all of it "learned pontification" because there're too many facts missing.
But apparently, there're some conceivable scenarios where it could make a difference to the case, but not because of the legality or illegality of getting out of his car etc.

 

[TheNextEra]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

This bounty is definitely a crime. The leaders, or at the bare minimum this spokesperson, should be charged with a crime for this.

 

[AdamT]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

If two dudes wearing bed sheets and hoods were standing outside a polling house, you would be cool with it? I'm quite sure it wouldn't have been, "different", in that scenario.

That's a horrible analogy. KKK garb clearly implies a racist agenda. The two NBPP guys were dressed like security guards.

 

[ric27]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

A very serious situation? A kid walking down the street is a serious situation?

Life must be hard for you.

Listen and you might learn something from this thread, ok?

By the look on his face (eyes, hands, etc aka body language) at the initial interrogation

Many times at the scene of a crime ones experience, training and what you learn from your and others past mistakes will teach you a lot if you have the desire to learn from them. Most perps or victims will telegraph their thoughts and intents with subtle movements only seen by those who know what to look for. It's an ancient language called body language aka cop speak.

No magic, voodoo, ESP or bull**** 6th sense about it. Situational awareness lets you see it

Bad guys/victims act a certain way. Who's bull****ting and whos not

 

[Neal N. Bloeme]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

If Obama had a son, he would look like a Black Panther.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Black Panthers offer bounty on Zimmerman

How in hell are the leaders here not being arrested?

U.S. News - Witness: Zimmerman 'never ... tried to help' Trayvon Martin

and from another article

Trayvon Martin case: New Black Panthers offer $10,000 bounty for Trayvon Martin killer George Zimmerman - chicagotribune.com

To me this sounds like murder for hire. Last I checked this is a crime. You cannot pay or even offer to pay for the murder of another person.

I sincerely hate that people can walk around shouting "black power" in response to something they perceive as racism. Bunch of idiotic hypocrites. Black Power is racist too.

Groups like this are making things about race. Black community and black men and women that they are referencing are specifically racist. No attempt to conceal it and yet it gets no attention. And what is it exactly that the officer they were berating was supposed to have done in order to keep Trayvon alive?

According to your link, they have offfered a $10,000 reward for his capture. There is no law against that:

Members of the New Black Panther Party are offering a $10,000 reward for the "capture" of George Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who shot Trayvon Martin.

Also from your link:

New Black Panther leader Mikhail Muhammad announced the reward during a protest in Sanford Saturday. And when asked whether he was inciting violence, Muhammad replied defiantly: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

Free speech and all that...

Unless this:

The fighting words doctrine, in United States constitutional law, is a limitation to freedom of speech as protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. In its 9-0 decision, Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942), the U.S. Supreme Court established the doctrine and held that "insulting or 'fighting words,' those that by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace" are among the "well-defined and narrowly limited classes of speech the prevention and punishment of [which] ... have never been thought to raise any constitutional problem."

Fighting words - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Yes, I understand your conjecture. However, I find it highly unlikely that a 260 pound man is going to lose a fight to a 140 pound man (who allegedly has no history of fighting) in which the bigger man starts it.

Has anyone tracked down where Z's weight comes from?

I don't see it in the police report.

 

[Gie]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Again, he wasn't stalking, you keep using that word and it's not valid. He was following a suspicious person.

You have already said Zimmerman is guilty of murder without knowing what for sure happened after he got out of his car.

That is not, thankfully, how the justice system works.

I've used the word "stalk" once, in my last post. But I am free to use the word because I actually understand what it means in English. Regardless if I use "stalk" or "followed" Zimmerman was doing both, but neither of those descriptors are what the crux of the matter here is.

Now let me share something with you.
Stalk | Define Stalk at Dictionary.com

Stalk:
verb (used with object)

5. to pursue (game, a person, etc.) stealthily.
6. to proceed through (an area) in search of prey or quarry: to stalk the woods for game.
7. to proceed or spread through in a steady or sinister manner: Disease stalked the land.

Which brings me back to what I said to you before and you tried to step around it with your "stalk" point, which is ignorant owing to English. I've watched you make this same irrelevant argument about the legality of "following" people and being a NW for days now. The problem with your assertion is one of so what? You think that *point* will really be a viable defense that Zimmerman's lawyers are going to bother using in court? That tangential road to nowhere is hardly the issue being discussed here and sure won't be when the gran jury convenes. The killing of Martin will be the issue, not redundant information about whether Zimmerman was free to follow/stalk Martin before he killed him.