Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[taxigirl]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

As for patterns of behavior I think it should be considered that Zimmerman has had a history of mild violence, the TRO dispute, him shoving a cop, these do show a pattern and that should be considered

The fact is that none of us were there. Zimmerman is being tried in the media and that is not fair, neither is assuming it was race related or that Trayvon instigated anything. Anything about what happened after Zimmerman was off the phone is speculations. The police found evidence at the scene and we do not know what that is. Probably the positioning of everything, powder burns etc...

It is a shame that both of these men are being tried without us knowing the facts. It is also shameful that race is cited as an issue.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

As for patterns of behavior I think it should be considered that Zimmerman has had a history of mild violence, the TRO dispute, him shoving a cop, these do show a pattern and that should be considered.

In this case, with the known evidence as it is, it doesn't matter.

But here are my thoughts on this as expressed in reply to another.

Zimmerman's history?
What exactly is his history?

I have heard him called overzealous and paranoid because of his many calls to 911.
What was his average?
What? Three a month maybe?
That is not overzealous or paranoid for someone acting in the capacity of NW.
That is called being on the job, cautious and alert.

Why don't you try to at least engage in an honest evaluation of his history before you pigeon hole him where he doesn't belong?
Those earlier charges against him that were dropped, what were the specifics surrounding them?
For all you know they were dropped because he did not do it.
The point is, that you don't know. And it seems that you would rather engage in dishonest bs, instead of properly analyzing his history.


So because people got it stuck in their head that he was the one in the wrong, they would rather rely on superficial claims instead of actually doing some analysis of what each one of those incidents entail and end up calling him paranoid, overzealous, racist, dangerous and whatever other bs has been said about him.
I find that to be pathetic.

 

[taxigirl]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

In this case, with the known evidence as it is, it doesn't matter.

But here are my thoughts on this as expressed in reply to another.

I posted a thread about just this topic. One of Zimmerman's neighbors was talking in support of him. I really hate it when people are boxed in and assumptions are made.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Zimmerman being beaten down and Martin continuing to assault him, particularly noting a wound to the BACK of Zimmerman's head, does justify him using deadly force, since he clearly was unable to defend himself otherwise. NO ONE has to allow themselves to be continually beaten at risk of greater pain, greater risk of permanent disfigurement, permanent crippling injury, permanent brain damage or death.

Regardless of how it started, would YOU allow someone to just beat you to death if you could stop it with a weapon - or would you just conclude "I guess I am in someway responsible for how this started so he gets to do whatever he wants to me now or to beat me to death."

That is what your claiming? OR are you claiming that if anyone annoys you that YOU then get to beat that person to death? Are you REALLY arguing for YOUR right to assault people that bother you?

Regardless all of you who valiantly argue Zimmerman's innocence, regardless whether people believe Martin attacked Zimmerman or not, he is guilty in the eyes of public opinion.

I don't think this guy was out to kill anyone that night...far from it. But when he made the fateful decision to get out of his car and question a pedestrian for walking down the street, he set in motion a series of events that inextricably led to the death of a young man walking home from the store.

I had to get out of bed tonight when I woke to hear this on the radio:

Mayor of Philadelphia:

"Trayvon Martin, a young man basically minding his business, in my opinion at least, was assassinated.

(He shouldn't have said this.) If I were Zimmerman, I would be scared to death. What a tragedy. Hopefully police departments nationwide will learn something from this.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I really hate it when people are boxed in and assumptions are made.

Yikes.
Not to go off topic.
I wish everybody felt that way.
What I find amazing is that most people that I have met during my life express that very opinion, but they are not really that type of person.

 

[taxigirl]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Yikes.
Not to go off topic.
I wish everybody felt that way.
What I find amazing is that most people that I have met during my life express that very opinion, but they are not really that type of person.

I have had too many assumptions made about me in my life and I know how difficult it can make life. I ask a lot of questions so I can do my best to assure I understand something and I am not just stereotyping or filling the gaps. It is very important to me to be genuine and I find that questions help a lot.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

It is also shameful that race is cited as an issue.

He called him a "coon". Also, even if he hadn't called him a coon, race and racism exist in this country and it's a well known part of society that some people profile people based on their race and considering that Martin wasn't doing anything wrong at all, it's not "shameful" to think that race played a factor in this.

I'm frankly getting sick and tired of people trying to pretend that race and racism don't exist in our society anymore.

Also, what do you mean "without the facts"? 911 tapes, Zimmerman's words, Zimmerman's history and witness statements are facts, the same kind of facts that are going to be used when this goes to trial.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

He called him a "coon".....

that is not clear at all.

I've listened to 5 versions of the phone call, and its still impossible to say for sure what word he uses.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Yikes.
Not to go off topic.
I wish everybody felt that way.
What I find amazing is that most people that I have met during my life express that very opinion, but they are not really that type of person.

Why don't you practice what you preach? How many ridiculous assumptions have you made about Martin at this point?

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

that is not clear at all.

I've listened to 5 versions of the phone call, and its still impossible to say for sure what word he uses.

Get your ears checked.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Get your ears checked.

lead by example.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

lead by example.

I'm not trying to lead anybody.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I'm not trying to lead anybody.

I should hope not.

 

[buck]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Suspended for tardiness? He was on suspension? I didn't read that but from you just now. So the perfect child was on suspension for school basically for not following school rules that essentially all students do? How many times does a person have to be tardy to literally be suspended?

10 day suspension for tardiness? There are people that think that actually makes sense? Here is what the father said:

Still, Trayvon had nonviolent behavioral issues in school, and on the day he was killed, he had been suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade.
“He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn’t a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property],” Martin said, declining to offer more details.

Trayvon Martin: a typical teen who loved video games, looked forward to prom - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
Read more here: Trayvon Martin: a typical teen who loved video games, looked forward to prom - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I should hope not.

Ooo, burn...

 

[buck]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Overall there were over 400 911 calls a year from that community. Because those saying how many times Zimmerman called is to cherry pick facts to try to demonize him, they all leave that off.

There seems to be a lot of incorrect/misleading reporting on this story well beyond just the number of 911 calls. I guess that can be expected to occur when everyone is out for blood.

 

[Thorgasm]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I wonder what people will think about Trayvon's 911 call.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

lol
I am arguing what was presented.
I have no idea if he was actually expelled, expelled for tardies, or if tardies was made up to cover for the real reason of expulsion.

WTF??

How do you get from saying, "I am arguing what was presented"

... to ...

"I have no idea if he was actually expelled..."

When no one ever presented any information that Trayvon was "expelled?"

You're not arguing what was presented -- you're making **** up to fit your position.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

WTF??

How do you get from saying, "I am arguing what was presented"

... to ...


"I have no idea if he was actually expelled..."

When no one ever presented any information that Trayvon was "expelled?"

You're not arguing what was presented -- you're making **** up to fit your position.

the kid was suspended the day of the incident
his suspension was for ten days of school
that is substantial
doesn't make a whole lot of sense to tell a kid that his punishment for not spending as much time in school as is required is that he must now skip ten more days of school. but stranger things have happened
and his father has been honest to a fault
he tells us that is not his son's howling on the 911 tape
and he offers that his son was suspended and that he was caught being somewhere in school that he was not supposed to be, but would not elaborate further
we also know that this was the second high school that the junior had attended because he was not doing well in his last high school
does that indicate this young man was a bad kid? no. does it show us that he was the unflawed kid the likes of al 'tawanna brawley' sharpton would have us understand him to be? no

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Why don't you practice what you preach? How many ridiculous assumptions have you made about Martin at this point?

If I have made "ridiculous assumptions" about Trayvon, I am more than sure you can point them out.
Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.
So what are they? Link to them please.
And place them into context of what I was replying to when said, so we can actually determine if I have or not.

Get your ears checked.

lead by example.

What Thunder said!

lol
I am arguing what was presented.
I have no idea if he was actually expelled, expelled for tardies, or if tardies was made up to cover for the real reason of expulsion.

WTF??

How do you get from saying, "I am arguing what was presented"

... to ...

"I have no idea if he was actually expelled..."

When no one ever presented any information that Trayvon was "expelled?"

You're not arguing what was presented -- you're making **** up to fit your position.

Wait a minute. What?

Are you trying to say that Trayvon being expelled wasn't presented?
That makes no sense.
Of course I am arguing with what has been presented.

And lookie, lookie.
It appears as though it was cover for what he actually did.

But maybe you didn't read the part where I said this"
"This expulsion thing doesn't really matter to the known facts of this incident.
So how about we just stick with those?"

But how could you have missed it when it was said in reply to you?

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If I have made "ridiculous assumptions" about Trayvon, I am more than sure you can point them out.
Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.
So what are they? Link to them please.
And place them into context of what I was replying to when said, so we can actually determine if I have or not.

You know what you've said. I'm not going to play a game where I post all of your nonsense and then you distort and backtrack your way out of it.

What Thunder said!

Like I said to Thunder, I'm not interested in leading anybody, so...

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Are you trying to say that Trayvon being expelled wasn't presented?
That makes no sense.
Of course I am arguing with what has been presented.

And lookie, lookie.
It appears as though it was cover for what he actually did.

But maybe you didn't read the part where I said this"
"This expulsion thing doesn't really matter to the known facts of this incident.
So how about we just stick with those?"

But how could you have missed it when it was said in reply to you?

You said you're arguing what is presented. No one (other than you) presented Trayvon being expelled.

 

[j-mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Are you trying to say that Trayvon being expelled wasn't presented?
That makes no sense.

The reports are that Treyvon was suspended, not expelled...There is a huge difference.


j-mac

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

the kid was suspended the day of the incident
his suspension was for ten days of school
that is substantial
doesn't make a whole lot of sense to tell a kid that his punishment for not spending as much time in school as is required is that he must now skip ten more days of school. but stranger things have happened
and his father has been honest to a fault
he tells us that is not his son's howling on the 911 tape
and he offers that his son was suspended and that he was caught being somewhere in school that he was not supposed to be, but would not elaborate further
we also know that this was the second high school that the junior had attended because he was not doing well in his last high school
does that indicate this young man was a bad kid? no. does it show us that he was the unflawed kid the likes of al 'tawanna brawley' sharpton would have us understand him to be? no

Yes, I know he was suspended. I was the one who brought that to joko's attention.

What he was not, was expelled. That was excon's claim which I took exception to.

 

[Excon]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You said you're arguing what is presented. No one (other than you) presented Trayvon being expelled.

What?
Was it not presented? lol

I definitely presented the evidence to counter what MaggieD said 2 days ago.

And acknowledged then that it had no relevance to eithers actions.

no trouble in school...

Was on suspension at the time of his death.

Trayvon was under a five-day suspension when he was shot that Sunday night, but Kypriss said it was due to tardiness and not misbehavior.

Trayvon Martin Shooting: Tensions rise in wake of Trayvon Martin shooting - Orlando Sentinel
Others have alleged that isn't the full story.
But it really has no relevance to either's actions.

That was two days ago.


Then you -

on your own -

a day later -

presented the information in response to an article posted by joko104 because you didn't like the way it was presented.

You got that?

You presented it independently.

It had nothing to do with me or what I had presented.

From Miami Herald:

The answer may lie in police records, which show that 50 suspicious-person reports were called in to police in the past year at Twin Lakes. There were eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting in the year prior to Trayvon’s death.

In all, police had been called to the 260-unit complex 402 times from Jan. 1, 2011 to Feb. 26, 2012.

“He (Zimmerman) once caught a thief and an arrest was made,” said Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowners association. “He helped solve a lot of crimes.”

Zimmerman told neighbors about stolen laptops and unsavory characters. Ibrahim Rashada, a 25-year-old African American who works at U.S. Airways, once spotted young men cutting through the woods entering the complex on foot, and later learned items were stolen those days.

“It’s a gated community, but you can walk in and steal whatever you want,” Rashada’s wife, Quianna, said.

They discussed the topic with Zimmerman when the watch captain knocked on their door late last year. Zimmerman seemed friendly, helpful, and a “pretty cool dude,” Ibrahim Rashada said.

Trayvon Martin was on top of Zimmerman punching him when he was shot.

“He came by here and talked about carrying guns and getting my wife more involved with guns,” he said. “He said I should have a weapon and that his wife took classes to learn how to use one.

Fair enough, however, their article is extremely biased against Trayvon. For example, they try to paint him as a troubled youth who was on suspension from school, but then they leave out the reason he was suspended because saying he must have been a bad kid sounds so much worse than revealing he was suspended for tardiness.

Suspended for tardiness? He was on suspension? I didn't read that but from you just now. So the perfect child was on suspension for school basically for not following school rules that essentially all students do? How many times does a person have to be tardy to literally be suspended?

He was suspended for being tardy. Not for bad behaviour, not for drugs, not for fighting. For tardiness.

I then quoted your above statement and chimed in with the following:

Tardiness is bad behavior.

And I again pointed out later that this information didn't matter.

And yes I then used the wrong wording, but you have a brain should have understood what was said.

So, yes. I was arguing what was presented, and it was presented by you.