Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

OhIsee.Then · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Excon said:
I am pretty sure at this point that my statement that Trayvon was wearing the white t-shirt was wrong.
So I retract it unless and until I can show it was correct.
I thought heard white t-shirt, when all I believe I heard now was, white t, which cut off and then continues with tennis shoes. The white t being part of white tennis shoes.
I am still having issues and have not even been able to review the whole video to see if it is on there.

So I apologize to all for taking the conversation that way with my wrong assertion.

Thankfully it isn't needed to prove it was Zimmerman on the ground yelling for help and being assaulted because of the other eye-witness report who was outside and saw it.

Again, you are still incorrect. Zimmerman getting beaten doesn't given him the right to shoot Martin. Only if Martin attacked Zimmerman first. There is nothing to prove Zimmerman didn't attack first. But since Zimmerman had to catch up to Martin for Martin to even know he was there Zimmerman was asking by his actions for Martin to respond to him. He may have even put a hand on Martin to get him to stop so he could question him. So, you have no proof at all about who started the fight where Zimmerman was losing. But, the SYGL is written in a way to permit Zimmerman to murder Martin. Yes, the law permits murder. It's intended to, but they were only expecting the correct people would get killed. I'm just waiting for someone to demonstrate this by shooting Zimmerman. It shouldn't be too hard given Zimmerman’s history.

What if...? · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

ric27 said:
The Left media using dated photos of Martin as a 10-12 year-old when more current ones are available, downplaying Zimmerman's head injuries, the white hispanic instead of just hispanic, etc, etc

The only thing, we will probably agree on is.. Did the Zimmerman act wisely? Unequivocally, NO.

The bottom line is there any proof that he committed a crime? To be brutally honest...NO

I really don't watch the news much since coming here.

I learn a lot more, more quickly, here than on the news. And I get to bounce ideas off people who like this stuff.

That said, from what I hear on this thread you are correct.

The RACIST! bandwagon is at full speed, towing the anti-gun calliope behind it.

And that kind of sucks.

Zimmerman may BE a racist. I haven't listened to all the tapes but I do know that he didn't identify Martin as black until asked. Race tends to be foremost with racist types. So I would expect something like "some BLACK guy wandering around".

And it could be he's racist at HEART but race didn't have enough to do with it for it to rise to the level of a hate crime. A racist white can kill a black man and it NOT be a racial crime. Its still a crime, just not a hate crime unless he killed him because he was black.

I'm not trying to divert, but its not cool to be crying "racism" quite so loud, nor "gun control", IMHO.

I think Zim would likely have behaved similarly with an unfamiliar white or latino. He might have been racially motivated to be more aggressive towards a black kid than a white one, but maybe his selection method was by size. He did have almost a hundred pounds and a couple inches on him, right?

And I've already commented on the gun thing.

I think Zim is a dangerous asshole who may get away with murder.

I'm just not sure he's a racist and if he is I'm not sure this is a hate crime and I don't think gun control should come in to it unless someone is supporting an outright ban.

"Idiot ****s up and kills kid" is MORE than enough to be mad about.

joko104 · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Sheik Yerbuti said:
Why would the kid attack Zimmerman? What would be his motivation?

He was pissed that Zimmerman called the police on him? He's a racist against Latinos Because he's a punk? Because he is extremely rebellious (such as reason for his suspension.)? Because he's a gang-banger? Because he's a violent asshole? A bully who thinks he's a tough football player who can kick ass? Who knows?

What was the reason for Zimmerman to shoot Martin - other than Zimmerman violently assaulted him and continued to do so with Zimmerman on the ground screaming for help? Clearly all evidence shows that Zimmerman didn't have his gun out until then.

I understand why you WANT to hate and blame Zimmerman, but your side of this is falling apart - at least legally. The facts are what they are, and they are all breaking Zimmerman's way. Again, legally.

You can imagine what you think happened in the gaps of the unknowns, but all known facts are confirming Zimmerman's account. Almost all speculations made against Zimmerman that have become known are being proved wrong.

Do you still believe it was Martin yelling for help? An eye witness has stated it was Zimmerman.

Look, reality is what it is. I understand the injustices you oppose and I agree with most of those, I really do. BUT you can't make a specific instance prove what it doesn't.

joko104 · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

OhIsee.Then said:
Again, you are still incorrect. Zimmerman getting beaten doesn't given him the right to shoot Martin. Only if Martin attacked Zimmerman first. There is nothing to prove Zimmerman didn't attack first. But since Zimmerman had to catch up to Martin for Martin to even know he was there Zimmerman was asking by his actions for Martin to respond to him. He may have even put a hand on Martin to get him to stop so he could question him. So, you have no proof at all about who started the fight where Zimmerman was losing. But, the SYGL is written in a way to permit Zimmerman to murder Martin. Yes, the law permits murder. It's intended to, but they were only expecting the correct people would get killed. I'm just waiting for someone to demonstrate this by shooting Zimmerman. It shouldn't be too hard given Zimmerman’s history.

Zimmerman in his statement at the scene said Martin came at him. At best, it is unknown which.

Nothing of Zimmerman's "history" as you likely refer to could be presented in trial.

I THINK YOU CROSS THE LINE SUGGESTING YOU WANT ZIMMERMAN SHOT. If so, you've just gone off the deep end.

joko104 · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The claim that Zimmerman is a cop and woman beater is unjust. Those cases are seals and there it not known if he was determined to have done so or not. Zimmerman did dispute them. Where is the assumption of bad cops against the minority Latino?

ric27 · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

OhIsee.Then said:
Again, you are still incorrect. Zimmerman getting beaten doesn't given him the right to shoot Martin.

Using deadly force to protect yourself, or your family is justified. That being said, one has to be placed in fear of great bodily harm, and make the decision to use deadly force.

Self-defense isn't murder, there's that pesky requirement for something skin to malice aforethought or premeditation to go the murder route.

joko104 · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The claim that Zimmerman is a racist is particular unfair and unjust.

Zimmerman is a Spanish speaking Latino and very much a minority in the predominantly African-American neighborhood. Commonly both whites and African-Americans in central Florida hold Latinos very negatively.

Zimmerman not only has African-American friends, but even African-American relatives. People who know him in the neighborhood and school have gone public scoffing at the claim that he's a racist. Many in that neighborhood have come forward saying it his polite, respectful and in no way a racist.

Neighbors describe watch leader at center of Florida investigation - CNN.com

That neighborhood's majority is African-American, though has whites and Latinos. Of the prior 46 911 calls - about 1 per week - there is no allegation that Zimmerman assaulted, detained, harassed, blocked or threatened anyone. I know in fact that 1 call per week for someone actively involved in neighborhood watch is a particularly LOW number.

Those 46 prior calls also support that Zimmerman is NOT someone who runs down African-Americans shoving, blocking or starting a fight. The police answering those calls could be called as witnesses to confirm the nature of the calls and whether any person complained of how Zimmerman treated them.

Increasingly, I think the EXTREME attempts to villify and even dehumanize Zimmerman is grossly unjust and unfair.

MaggieD · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:
The claim that Zimmerman is a racist is particular unfair and unjust.

Zimmerman is a Spanish speaking Latino and very much a minority in the predominantly African-American neighborhood. Commonly both whites and African-Americans in central Florida hold Latinos very negatively.

Zimmerman not only has African-American friends, but even African-American relatives. People who know him in the neighborhood and school have gone public scoffing at the claim that he's a racist. Many in that neighborhood have come forward saying it his polite, respectful and in no way a racist.

Neighbors describe watch leader at center of Florida investigation - CNN.com

That neighborhood's majority is African-American, though has whites and Latinos. Of the prior 46 911 calls - about 1 per week - there is no allegation that Zimmerman assaulted, detained, harassed, blocked or threatened anyone. I know in fact that 1 call per week for someone actively involved in neighborhood watch is a particularly LOW number.

Those 46 prior calls also support that Zimmerman is NOT someone who runs down African-Americans shoving, blocking or starting a fight. The police answering those calls could be called as witnesses to confirm the nature of the calls and whether any person complained of how Zimmerman treated them.

Increasingly, I think the EXTREME attempts to villify and even dehumanize Zimmerman is grossly unjust and unfair.

I've never gotten the impression from any account I've read that Zimmerman is a racist. It's unfortunate that the black community is so racist themselves (in my opinion) that they see this as being part of the picture.

If he were a racist, people would be coming out of the woodwork for their 15 minutes of fame. That's not happening.

In my opinion, this guy's hobby was neighborhood watch. And he made one really bad mistake -- or unfortunate decision (whichever way one chooses to look at what happened). That's for sure. Regardless of whether or not what happened rises to the level of a crime, his life is forever changed. Not in a good way.

When he can, I think the best thing this guy could do would be to change his name and move to another city -- where he hopefully will have family to help him get on his feet.

joko104 · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

ric27 said:
Using deadly force to protect yourself, or your family is justified. That being said, one has to be placed in fear of great bodily harm, and make the decision to use deadly force.

Self-defense isn't murder, there's that pesky requirement for something skin to malice aforethought or premeditation to go the murder route.

Zimmerman being beaten down and Martin continuing to assault him, particularly noting a wound to the BACK of Zimmerman's head, does justify him using deadly force, since he clearly was unable to defend himself otherwise. NO ONE has to allow themselves to be continually beaten at risk of greater pain, greater risk of permanent disfigurement, permanent crippling injury, permanent brain damage or death.

Regardless of how it started, would YOU allow someone to just beat you to death if you could stop it with a weapon - or would you just conclude "I guess I am in someway responsible for how this started so he gets to do whatever he wants to me now or to beat me to death."

That is what your claiming? OR are you claiming that if anyone annoys you that YOU then get to beat that person to death? Are you REALLY arguing for YOUR right to assault people that bother you?

Sheik Yerbuti · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Excon said:
Thankfully it isn't needed to prove it was Zimmerman on the ground yelling for help and being assaulted because of the other eye-witness report who was outside and saw it.

So what? Trayvon had every right to defend himself from someone following him in the dark.

Sheik Yerbuti · Mar 23, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:
Every known fact and every eye-witness is consistent with what Zimmerman said at the time to the arriving police.

People speaking on behalf of Martin have freqently been proven to making false statements - and continued doing so.

You mean false statements like claiming Trayvon was kicking Zimmerman in the head? Those kinds of false statements?

ric27 · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:
Zimmerman being beaten down and Martin continuing to assault him, particularly noting a wound to the BACK of Zimmerman's head, does justify him using deadly force, since he clearly was unable to defend himself otherwise. NO ONE has to allow themselves to be continually beaten at risk of greater pain, greater risk of permanent disfigurement, permanent crippling injury, permanent brain damage or death.

Agreed

Regardless of how it started, would YOU allow someone to just beat you to death if you could stop it with a weapon - or would you just conclude "I guess I am in someway responsible for how this started so he gets to do whatever he wants to me now or to beat me to death."

That is what your claiming? OR are you claiming that if anyone annoys you that YOU then get to beat that person to death? Are you REALLY arguing for YOUR right to assault people that bother you?

Is this post directed at me or something?

ric27 · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Sheik Yerbuti said:
So what? Trayvon had every right to defend himself from someone following him in the dark.

You seem to be going around in circles

Sections 776.032 and 776.085 provides the protection from civil action resulting form the use of justifiable deadly force. Fortunately Zimmerman is in Florida and the Fl legislature has worked that out for him

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes :->2010->Chapter 776 : Online Sunshine

What if...? · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:
I don't think racism factored into this, but if it did, I suspect the one motivated by racism and towards violence was Martin, not Zimmerman.

Initially, in the 911 call, Martin turned towards and approached Zimmerman glaring at him as he did, but seeing/hearing Zimmerman talking to the police, Martin turned and ran around the corner, but then according to the call to his girlfriend he stopped running.

Seeing Zimmerman no longer on the phone, he physically violently assault Zimmerman - a minority Latino on a majority African-American commmunity - and continued assaulting Zimmerman after slugging the chubby Latino minority old guy (to him) down to the ground.

I suspect that while Zimmerman was screaming for someone to help him, Martin was struggling with Zimmerman for the gun, who to that point had not displayed or drawn it. Yet that is one aspect of the struggle that would favor Zimmerman. Heavy people generally are slower and Zimmerman seems not particularly fit, but heavy people are strong from carrying their weight.

At that point I think it became only a question of which one died. If Martin could turn the gun on Zimmerman, Zimmerman dies. If Zimmerman could turn the pistol on Martin, Martin died.

Martin died.

This didn't happen because a civilian watchmen was doing what they do. It happened because Martin wanted to and believed he could beat the crap out of an pudgy older Latino guy who had called the police on him. I don't think race came into it, but if it did, it most likely Martin a racist against Latinos leading him to charge and assault Zimmerman.

Despite all the words claiming Martin was an angelic child with his Skittles, that he attacked Zimmerman and continued assaulting him (according to TWO eye witnesses) shows he is anything but a sweet young 17 year old teen.

He could have just gone home or cursed Zimmerman out. But he could not beat the s...t out of Zimmerman as much and as long as he wanted to. Anyone who knows about fights knows its not like in the movies with no residuals. Fights leave people crippled, brain damaged and dead - whether deliberate or not. That Zimmerman had a wound on the back of his head, not just a slug in the nose, proved the assault of Martin was extremely violent and of life threatening natures.

Or...

Martin sees Zimmerman following him on foot and asks "why are you following me?"

To which Zimmerman replies "what are you doing here?"

Martin makes some dismissive "pfft" gesture and turns to leave.

At which point Zimmerman grabs him by his hoodie to hole him so THIS ONE DOESNT GET AWAY.

Martin freaks, whips around and cracks Zimmerman one in the face, with all the power a weight lifting, football playing, just got back from hanging out with his girl, followed in a strange neighborhood by a weird big fat guy, 17 year old can deliver.

And down goes Zimmerman on his back, body on some grass, head on the sidewalk.

So Zimmerman is laying on his back, stunned and in some pain, starts fumbling for his gun, SOMEBODY starts yelling, plausible reasons for both to do so, martin standing.

Gun comes out.

BANG!

Dead kid.

This narrative includes every piece of evidence we have, I believe.

It is FAR simpler than any of the others I've heard, and doesn't require acceptance of behavior for which there is no precedent.

And it could be completely wrong.

Time will tell and I can't wait to see what comes out of the investigation!

Excon · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

What if...? said:
Did zimmerman acknowledge speaking to Martin BEFORE walking back to his truck? Or any other indication that he had spoken to Martin at all prior to the release of the GFs conversation?

Because that's pretty relevant.

They spoke. "Why are you following me?" "What are you doing here?"

This exchange doesn't seem to be in zims story. This exchange HAD to have happened before thephysical confrontation.

I thought he said he got out to check a street name and was on his way back to his truck when he was attacked. How did he describe the conversation they cleary had? Did he mention it at all?

Something like "he asked me why I was following him and I asked over my shoulder "what are you doing here?" as I walked back to my truck and then he just attacked me from behind."

Haven't heard that he admitted speaking to Martin at all. And if he didn't, then his story slides down in credibility because he left out something he thought nobody knew, because he didnt know that Martin was on the phone at the time because he was using a headset.

We only have snippets of Zimmerman's statement's to police.
And thus far they are consistent with the 911 calls we have heard and also with the released information from Trayvon's girlfriend.

Now let me ask you about what you said here about the confrontation. Or as you describe it, "a conversation".
You don't think the police know that?
Of course they do, and whatever information was had, it still wasn't enough for the prosecutors to bring charges.
Remember. It was the prosecutors and not the police that determined there wasn't enough evidence to obtain a conviction.

Wiggen said:
it's actually quite difficult to come up with any proof when there is no police investigation,

Why are you saying there wasn't an investigation when clearly there was?

Crosscheck said:
And that is that Zimmerman has been proven to be a violent parnoia wannabe who with HIS GUN killed an innocent kid just walking home talking to his girlfriend.

No he hasn't.
That is a characterization in your mind.

Excon · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

MaggieD said:
Not quite. One independent witness says she told the LEO that Martin was calling for help. The LEO corrected her and said, "No, that was Zimmerman."

Zimmerman said he was calling for help. Another witness who was on the scene and not behind a window said it was Zimmerman calling for help.
Who are you going to believe?
The witness that is confirmed by Zimmerman's own statement and was actually on the scene.
Or someone's who wasn't.
He shouldn't had corrected her during her statement.
But there is nothing wrong with informing her that another who was actually on the scene says it was the other calling for help.

MaggieD said:
He said "he peppered" Zimmerman with questions instead of asking him to tell his story. This is not police procedure. Questions are leading.

Ok? And how long was the interview at the station, and was that properly done?
From my own pov, Zimmerman, having just been in a very terrifying and traumatic situation had no time to even concoct a story that would hold up to even the slightest inspection. Especially when being immediately "peppered" with questions.

MaggieD said:
Let's face it--there's enough question that this should go before a Grand Jury. And on April 10th, it will.

I don't think there is at all.
But you know that saying. Something about being able to indict a ham sandwich.

Oh, this slipped my mind at the time MaggieD, but earlier in the topic you had said something to the effect of, about Zimmerman driving at a specific point and I made a reply to the effect of, that I didn't recall that at all, or something like that.
I just want to say that I did look into that and you were correct.

Excon · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Dickieboy said:
A question I have that may have been discussed here and I missed. Was the most general direct route between 7/11 and 'home' thru the 'gated community'?

He wasn't going to his home, but why do you ask?

ric27 said:
... the asshole goes free

I agree with everything else you said in that post except the above.
You do not know him to be an asshole.
All report that I have seen of those that know him say he isn't.

Crosscheck said:
It is called paranoia. What, he had a couple legit 911 calls but 90% were innocent people that Zimmerman just knew to be commiting crimes.

You might want to revise what you said.
What was the average number of his calls per week as NW?

Crosscheck said:
This man is a danger to the community.

The evidence doesn't say that.

Excon · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

OhIsee.Then said:
Again, you are still incorrect. .

No, I am not.
But you are free to try and prove it with the facts.

OhIsee.Then said:
Zimmerman getting beaten doesn't given him the right to shoot Martin. Only if Martin attacked Zimmerman first. .

Which is what the evidence says happened.

OhIsee.Then said:
There is nothing to prove Zimmerman didn't attack first. .

Beside Zimmerman's statement saying otherwise, there is no evidence to say he did.

OhIsee.Then said:
But since Zimmerman had to catch up to Martin for Martin to even know he was there Zimmerman was asking by his actions for Martin to respond to him. .

In order to be attacked from behind. Trayvon would have had to be hidden from Zimmerman's view.
Which is consistent with Trayvon having lost Zimmerman.

He may have even put a hand on Martin to get him to stop so he could question him. So, you have no proof at all about who started the fight where Zimmerman was losing.
It could of happened this way and it could of happened that way, blah, blah, blah.
Nothing to support your argument.

The evidence says Zimmerman was attacked from behind. That is all we have. Oh, that and the results of the initial investigation.

OhIsee.Then said:
It shouldn't be too hard given Zimmerman’s history.

Zimmerman's history?
What exactly is his history?

I have heard him called overzealous and paranoid because of his many calls to 911.
What was his average?
What? Three a month maybe?
That is not overzealous or paranoid for someone acting in the capacity of NW.
That is called being on the job, cautious and alert.

Why don't you try to at least engage in an honest evaluation of his history before you pigeon hole him where he doesn't belong?
Those earlier charges against him that were dropped, what were the specifics surrounding them?
For all you know they were dropped because he did not do it.
The point is, that you don't know. And it seems that you would rather engage in dishonest bs, instead of properly analyzing his history.

So because people got it stuck in their head that he was the one in the wrong, they would rather rely on superficial claims instead of actually doing some analysis of what each one of those incidents entail and end up calling him paranoid, overzealous, racist, dangerous and whatever other bs has been said about him.
I find that to be pathetic.

Excon · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Sheik Yerbuti said:
So what? Trayvon had every right to defend himself from someone following him in the dark.

As far as I know, assault is not a defense.

What if...? said:
Or...

Martin sees Zimmerman following him on foot and asks "why are you following me?"

To which Zimmerman replies "what are you doing here?"

Martin makes some dismissive "pfft" gesture and turns to leave.

At which point Zimmerman grabs him by his hoodie to hole him so THIS ONE DOESNT GET AWAY.

Martin freaks, whips around and cracks Zimmerman one in the face, with all the power a weight lifting, football playing, just got back from hanging out with his girl, followed in a strange neighborhood by a weird big fat guy, 17 year old can deliver.

And down goes Zimmerman on his back, body on some grass, head on the sidewalk.

So Zimmerman is laying on his back, stunned and in some pain, starts fumbling for his gun, SOMEBODY starts yelling, plausible reasons for both to do so, martin standing.

Gun comes out.

BANG!

Dead kid.

This narrative includes every piece of evidence we have, I believe.

It is FAR simpler than any of the others I've heard, and doesn't require acceptance of behavior for which there is no precedent.

And it could be completely wrong.

Time will tell and I can't wait to see what comes out of the investigation!

Maybe there should be one thread for the presentation and discussion of factual information, and another for wild supposition?

What if...? · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:
He was pissed that Zimmerman called the police on him? He's a racist against Latinos Because he's a punk? Because he is extremely rebellious (such as reason for his suspension.)? Because he's a gang-banger? Because he's a violent asshole? A bully who thinks he's a tough football player who can kick ass? Who knows?

What was the reason for Zimmerman to shoot Martin - other than Zimmerman violently assaulted him and continued to do so with Zimmerman on the ground screaming for help? Clearly all evidence shows that Zimmerman didn't have his gun out until then.

I understand why you WANT to hate and blame Zimmerman, but your side of this is falling apart - at least legally. The facts are what they are, and they are all breaking Zimmerman's way. Again, legally.

You can imagine what you think happened in the gaps of the unknowns, but all known facts are confirming Zimmerman's account. Almost all speculations made against Zimmerman that have become known are being proved wrong.

Do you still believe it was Martin yelling for help? An eye witness has stated it was Zimmerman.

Look, reality is what it is. I understand the injustices you oppose and I agree with most of those, I really do. BUT you can't make a specific instance prove what it doesn't.

But we still.don't have any mention by Zimmerman of the verbal exchange with Martin in his original statement, right?

If there IS NO mention, then Zimmerman left that out.

And did it come out Martin was on the phone at the time? Or only later?

Because that's pretty relevant, right?

Sheik Yerbuti · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Dickieboy said:
A question I have that may have been discussed here and I missed. Was the most general direct route between 7/11 and 'home' thru the 'gated community'?

I'm not certain where the 7-11 is, but here's a map. Zimmerman told 911 he was by the clubhouse and described Trayvon "running" from left to right on the map.

Sheik Yerbuti · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

joko104 said:
Suspended for tardiness? He was on suspension? I didn't read that but from you just now. So the perfect child was on suspension for school basically for not following school rules that essentially all students do? How many times does a person have to be tardy to literally be suspended?

He was suspended for being tardy. Not for bad behaviour, not for drugs, not for fighting. For tardiness.

missypea · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Take color out of it. Let's say they were both white and everyone in the neighborhood was white. The town is called Snow White.

A kid is dead and he shouldn't be. Why?
Why is this kid dead?

My opinion is that this kid is dead because of Zimmerman's actions AND THEN the law failed this kid and his family by not doing a thorough investigation when it happened.

I've got a son of my own and someone might think he looks suspicious because he wears hoodies.
Yeah, I'd like to see Zimmerman in prison for this.

Sheik Yerbuti · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

OhIsee.Then said:
Again, you are still incorrect. Zimmerman getting beaten doesn't given him the right to shoot Martin. Only if Martin attacked Zimmerman first.

Not even if Martin attacked first. Martin was being followed by a stranger in dark as he was heading back to his father's fiance's home after going on a candy run. He had the right to defend himself and strike first. Zimmerman lost his case of self-defense when he decided to play cop and stalk Trayvon.

Josie · Mar 24, 2012

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I've been watching quietly while people discuss this and here's what I think:

1. Who cares why he got suspended? How does that have anything to do with the shooting?

2. Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. He should be arrested and taken to trial. Let the jurors hear the evidence and decide what happened.

3. I think people who are knee-jerking the idea that Zimmerman is guilty are not being fair and probably caught up in all the emotion of it all.

4. Geraldo is still an idiot.

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