Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by law

[Thorgasm]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Casey Anthony owes her freedom to people such as you. But unlike you, I was on little Calee's side.

Is there ANYONE else who is on this thread who is or was in law enforcement or the criminal justice system?

Please stop with the strawman. The Anthony case has nothing to do with this.

 

[Thorgasm]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Not in the slightest. You have completely reversed it.

You are desperate. Martin didn't pick a fight with Zimmerman.

 

[Thorgasm]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

This is the legal expertise of those on this thread.

At the scene: You, as the police, once he said he shot Martin, should have immediately told him: "You are under arrest for murder. You have a right to remain silent and anything you say WILL be used in court against you. You have a right to an attorney and if you cannot afford one, an attorney will be appointed to you."

Then at the station, you would again remind him you know he's a murderer, he's under arrest, and he gets lawyer, "we all know exactly what happened. Tell us exactly what happened as it exactly did so we can use that in court against you." Of course he's not going to say he wants to talk to that lawyer.

Then, in trial, you tell the jury to Defense questions: "Of course I immediately knew exactly what happened and that he's a murder. So, no, we didn't need any evidence to know that and no, we did not explore any other possibility before arresting him. And no, I didn't need to see any forensic testing results first. Why would we? Everyone knew immediately everything that happened. Besides, if I didn't arrest him immediately he would have fled the country. I know his type. And his type needs to go straight to jail. Grand juries are just a big waste of everyone's time.
No, other than Zimmerman, there were no eye witnesses to the shooting. But Zimmerman admitted he pulled the trigger. That's all we needed to know. That and that he called 911 that he was following Martin. That's murder, plain and simple, no exceptions, so there really was nothing else to investigate.
Instead, what we did is put together this collection of evidence against Zimmerman after we arrested and charged him to prove to you what we already knew for you jurors so all of you can all agree that I was right from the very start. Everything we put together all only shows that I was 100% right in my instant decision. No, believe me when I tell you that I didn't selectively pick evidence, i certainly wasn't out to get Zimmerman but completely fair and impartial towards him, believe me that there is no other evidence and no we didn't pointlessly look any other evidence - because I knew in the first 15 minutes exactly what happened.
Besides, that new forensic stuff isn't necessary. Law enforcement did just fine without it for over 200 years. Why fix what isn't broken? We don't have time for that anyway, at least not when a case is immediately solved.
Trust me, I'm in law enforcement, I know what I'm doing and anyone I say is guilty always is. I'm very proud of my perfect conviction record and my time efficiency in solving crimes. I don't wasting my time. Its actually quite easy for me to know who's guilty and who's not. In fact, 100% of everyone I say is guilty had been found guilty."


THAT is what most on this thread are furious didn't happen. In your minds, the trial certainly should last more than 30 minutes, an hour tops.

Please stop with the strawman.

 

[Kreton]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You forgot the 911 tape, the witness testimonies, the girlfriend who was on the phone with him and the histories of Zimmerman and Martin. First, your comments were desperate enough to boil this down to an embarrassing Casey Anthony emotional appeal. Now, your comments are so desperate that they completely distort the arguments being made here and attribute arguments to us that we haven't made.

He doesn't forget, he chooses to ignore it.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You forgot the 911 tape, the witness testimonies, the girlfriend who was on the phone with him and the histories of Zimmerman and Martin. First, your comments were desperate enough to boil this down to an embarrassing Casey Anthony emotional appeal. Now, your comments are so desperate that they completely distort the arguments being made here and attribute arguments to us that we haven't made.

ok, being familiar with the witness testimonies, the 911 tape, the call to the girl friend and the histories of zimmerman and the kid, you construct for us the evidence which absolutely tells us that the kid did not initiate the physical assault. the one zimmerman insists is what resulted in his broken/bloody nose and scalp wound, and then his drawing his weapon in self defense
you imply that sufficient data now exists to unwind this matter, tell us why zimmerman's account cannot have been a possible outcome

 

[Kreton]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

If that's the upshot of the Stand Your Ground Law, it definitely needs tweaking. Not having to stand one's ground shouldn't allow for someone to pick a fight and then kill someone.

Its not. Stand Your Ground simply states that if someone comes at you or is threatening you in some way you dont have to back down first. Some states you are required to try to retreat before you shoot. SYG only says that you don't have to back down to a threat. SYG does not allow for a person to chase someone down the street who is fleeing from you and murder them because you thought they looked suspicious. SYG IS NOT APPLICABLE.

 

[Kreton]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

ok, being familiar with the witness testimonies, the 911 tape, the call to the girl friend and the histories of zimmerman and the kid, you construct for us the evidence which absolutely tells us that the kid did not initiate the physical assault. the one zimmerman insists is what resulted in his broken/bloody nose and scalp wound, and then his drawing his weapon in self defense
you imply that sufficient data now exists to unwind this matter, tell us why zimmerman's account cannot have been a possible outcome

This is pretty easy. Zimmerman chased this kid down. That is what initiated any physical contact that took place.

 

[Thunder]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

SYG says that Trayvon Martin had the right to defend himself against Zimmermann.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

ok, being familiar with the witness testimonies, the 911 tape, the call to the girl friend and the histories of zimmerman and the kid, you construct for us the evidence which absolutely tells us that the kid did not initiate the physical assault. the one zimmerman insists is what resulted in his broken/bloody nose and scalp wound, and then his drawing his weapon in self defense

you imply that sufficient data now exists to unwind this matter, tell us why zimmerman's account cannot have been a possible outcome

You seem to think that "initiating physical assault" means "threw the first punch". That's not what it means. You can initiate a physical conflict without being physical, especially under the Stand Your Ground law - which applies to Martin more than it does to Zimmerman if he defended himself.

And all this nonsense about Zimmerman having a bloody nose is meaningless. Plenty of husbands get bloody noses and scratches when they're beating their wives. Plenty of murderers get hurt by victims trying to defend themselves. However, in those cases, like this one, the aggressor often ends up being pretty obvious and a man with a gun chasing down an unarmed teenager makes the aggressor obvious and your continuous attempt to frame Martin as the aggressor is, quite frankly, sickening.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Are you one of those folks that think physical size and a gun really make a difference? That's weak.

Is that a serious question?

 

[Wiggen]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You are desperate. Martin didn't pick a fight with Zimmerman.

The vigor with which those people on this forum are defending Zimmerman really calls into question their motives. They choose to ignore all evidence to the contrary and have convinced themselves that Martin was the agressor and he deserved what he got.

On the other hand, maybe they just had a bad experience with skittles and iced tea.

 

[Wiggen]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

ok, being familiar with the witness testimonies, the 911 tape, the call to the girl friend and the histories of zimmerman and the kid, you construct for us the evidence which absolutely tells us that the kid did not initiate the physical assault. the one zimmerman insists is what resulted in his broken/bloody nose and scalp wound, and then his drawing his weapon in self defense
you imply that sufficient data now exists to unwind this matter, tell us why zimmerman's account cannot have been a possible outcome

Well, unfortunately we can't ask Martin (or the 'coon', as Zimmerman describes him) as he's dead.

 

[Thorgasm]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

The vigor with which those people on this forum are defending Zimmerman really calls into question their motives. They choose to ignore all evidence to the contrary and have convinced themselves that Martin was the agressor and he deserved what he got.

On the other hand, maybe they just had a bad experience with skittles and iced tea.

Whenever I confront someone with Skittles and iced tea I arm myself with Mentos and Diet Coke. :lol:

 

[liblady]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Well, unfortunately we can't ask Martin (or the 'coon', as Zimmerman describes him) as he's dead.

zimmerman called him a coon?

 

[Kreton]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Whenever I confront someone with Skittles and iced tea I arm myself with Mentos and Diet Coke. :lol:

Is that the combo that explodes?

 

[Thorgasm]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Is that the combo that explodes?

Yes it is.

 

[Kreton]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Yes it is.

lol awesome.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

You seem to think that "initiating physical assault" means "threw the first punch". That's not what it means. You can initiate a physical conflict without being physical, especially under the Stand Your Ground law - which applies to Martin more than it does to Zimmerman if he defended himself.

interesting position
that a physical assault can be initiated without any physical assault. please share with us just how that can happen

And all this nonsense about Zimmerman having a bloody nose is meaningless. Plenty of husbands get bloody noses and scratches when they're beating their wives.

are you now trying to pretend zimmerman got his bloody/broken nose and scalp wound as a result of violence with his wife before he began monitoring the activities of the kid
if not, then you have shown you are unable to explain how he received those injuries if not at the hands of the kid

Plenty of murderers get hurt by victims trying to defend themselves.

then you now want us to believe that zimmerman initiated the physical assault and received these injuries when the kid was defending himself from such physical assault

However, in those cases, like this one, the aggressor often ends up being pretty obvious

if it was so obvious, you would have accepted my challenge to explain for us how it was not possible for zimmerman's account to have been possible. but you avoided that challenge, because it was one you could not meet. which tells me your statement that the ability to know who the aggressor was is pretty obvious is patently false. because if it was easy you would be able to explain why zimmerman's account is not possible

... and a man with a gun chasing down an unarmed teenager makes the aggressor obvious and your continuous attempt to frame Martin as the aggressor is, quite frankly, sickening.

zimmerman had a permit to carry that weapon. many, many people are authorized to carry such a weapon, after first being found by legal authorities to do so
what we know is that the kid asked zimmerman 'why are you following me' and zimmerman replied with 'what are you doing here'
after that, all we know is that there was a physical altercation and zimmerman wound up shooting the kid. the only known surviving eyewitness to the incident - zimmerman - insists he used his weapon in self defense after being physically assaulted by the kid
now, i will challenge you again, explain for us how zimmerman's account could not possibly be true

 

[Thorgasm]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

if it was so obvious, you would have accepted my challenge to explain for us how it was not possible for zimmerman's account to have been possible. but you avoided that challenge, because it was one you could not meet. which tells me your statement that the ability to know who the aggressor was is pretty obvious is patently false. because if it was easy you would be able to explain why zimmerman's account is not possible

If he was following Martin, how did he lose him? How was Martin able to hide in bushes and jump him from behind? If Martin was running, I'm sure he could have made it to his destination before Zimmerman could have caught him. Martin was a thin football player.

Regardless, Martin's girlfriend's statement says that Zimmerman confronted Martin. That flies in the face of his being jumped from behind story.

 

[Kreton]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

Bubba- Way to twist words there.

How about we keep this very simple. You show me any law in Florida that allows you chase down children who are harmlessly walking down a street, with a loaded handgun, confront them, and kill them in cold blood while they are begging for their life.

 

[Tettsuo]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

interesting position
that a physical assault can be initiated without any physical assault. please share with us just how that can happen


are you now trying to pretend zimmerman got his bloody/broken nose and scalp wound as a result of violence with his wife before he began monitoring the activities of the kid
if not, then you have shown you are unable to explain how he received those injuries if not at the hands of the kid

then you now want us to believe that zimmerman initiated the physical assault and received these injuries when the kid was defending himself from such physical assault

if it was so obvious, you would have accepted my challenge to explain for us how it was not possible for zimmerman's account to have been possible. but you avoided that challenge, because it was one you could not meet. which tells me your statement that the ability to know who the aggressor was is pretty obvious is patently false. because if it was easy you would be able to explain why zimmerman's account is not possible

zimmerman had a permit to carry that weapon. many, many people are authorized to carry such a weapon, after first being found by legal authorities to do so
what we know is that the kid asked zimmerman 'why are you following me' and zimmerman replied with 'what are you doing here'
after that, all we know is that there was a physical altercation and zimmerman wound up shooting the kid. the only known surviving eyewitness to the incident - zimmerman - insists he used his weapon in self defense after being physically assaulted by the kid
now, i will challenge you again, explain for us how zimmerman's account could not possibly be true

Lots of things are possible. It's possible Martin was possessed and didn't know what he was doing. It's possible they entered an alternate reality and Martin was switched with a dark version of himself.

Now back to reality. Zimmerman's account is quite improbable when each person's state of mind is taken into account. Zimmerman gave us his view during his 911 call. Martin's state of mind was provided during the same call. Martin was trying to get away from Zimmerman, while Zimmerman wanted to get him. If the reverse were true, then Zimmerman's account would make sense. Instead, the girl's account of her phone conversation with Martin is the one that makes the most sense based on the 911 call by Zimmerman himself.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

interesting position
that a physical assault can be initiated without any physical assault. please share with us just how that can happen

Please share with yourself the "Stand Your Ground" law and phrases such as "fighting words" for more information.

are you now trying to pretend zimmerman got his bloody/broken nose and scalp wound as a result of violence with his wife before he began monitoring the activities of the kid
if not, then you have shown you are unable to explain how he received those injuries if not at the hands of the kid

yes, that's exactly what i'm suggesting. /sarcasm

then you now want us to believe that zimmerman initiated the physical assault and received these injuries when the kid was defending himself from such physical assault

Who is "us"? You and joko?

if it was so obvious, you would have accepted my challenge to explain for us how it was not possible for zimmerman's account to have been possible. but you avoided that challenge, because it was one you could not meet. which tells me your statement that the ability to know who the aggressor was is pretty obvious is patently false. because if it was easy you would be able to explain why zimmerman's account is not possible

you have not offered a challenge. you have offered stupidity. I also never said Zimmerman's account wasn't possible. I said it was "the least plausible story" - which it is. The reason that you have to distort my words instead of dealing with them head on is because you realize that I am right and you are wrong.

zimmerman had a permit to carry that weapon. many, many people are authorized to carry such a weapon, after first being found by legal authorities to do so
what we know is that the kid asked zimmerman 'why are you following me' and zimmerman replied with 'what are you doing here'
after that, all we know is that there was a physical altercation and zimmerman wound up shooting the kid. the only known surviving eyewitness to the incident - zimmerman - insists he used his weapon in self defense after being physically assaulted by the kid

now, i will challenge you again, explain for us how zimmerman's account could not possibly be true

again, you have not offered a challenge. you have offered stupidity. And "us" is you and joko - two people who have decided to support the least plausible explanation what occurred which makes "us" incredibly underwhelming.

I also don't know what him having a permit has to do with anything. Focus.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

interesting position
that a physical assault can be initiated without any physical assault. please share with us just how that can happen


are you now trying to pretend zimmerman got his bloody/broken nose and scalp wound as a result of violence with his wife before he began monitoring the activities of the kid
if not, then you have shown you are unable to explain how he received those injuries if not at the hands of the kid

then you now want us to believe that zimmerman initiated the physical assault and received these injuries when the kid was defending himself from such physical assault

if it was so obvious, you would have accepted my challenge to explain for us how it was not possible for zimmerman's account to have been possible. but you avoided that challenge, because it was one you could not meet. which tells me your statement that the ability to know who the aggressor was is pretty obvious is patently false. because if it was easy you would be able to explain why zimmerman's account is not possible

zimmerman had a permit to carry that weapon. many, many people are authorized to carry such a weapon, after first being found by legal authorities to do so
what we know is that the kid asked zimmerman 'why are you following me' and zimmerman replied with 'what are you doing here'
after that, all we know is that there was a physical altercation and zimmerman wound up shooting the kid. the only known surviving eyewitness to the incident - zimmerman - insists he used his weapon in self defense after being physically assaulted by the kid
now, i will challenge you again, explain for us how zimmerman's account could not possibly be true

I haven't followed this thread completely, but your position seems interesting to me.

I can't see how an armed man in a car is assaulted by an unarmed man on foot.

All Zimmerman needed to do was lock the doors and roll up the windows.

Personal experience with people supports the idea that zim got out, confronted the kid, got told to **** off, escalated the altercation, got his ass handed to him, shot the kid.

Personal experiemce with criminal types leaves a void in potential scenarios. HOW does the kid become engaged with zim? Did he run over and drag zim out of his car? Was he molesting a cat and zim came to the cats rescue?

The kid didn't live there,right? Unfamiliar territory. If some guy is following you in this day and age, you have to assume he's already called the cops. Maybe used the same phone to photograph you. Maybe has a GUN.

More information will be forthcoming. Bet on it. And everybody is speculating because none of us were there.

But how did an armed man in a car get assaulted by an unarmed man on foot? He got out and accosted the pedestrian in some way. There is no other way.

 

[Ben K.]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

I am writing about proper police and DA actions and tactics. Summarily arresting him would have been grotesquely incompetent police work and greatly helpful to his defense team. It would PROVE that police made their decision before forensic evidence - calling both their entire investigation, what the police said and the forensic evidence into question.

What I am "pissed" about? The death of Calee Anthony and how prosecution blew the case yielding to pressure from people like you and the media.

If you got your way from the start, a conviction of Zimmerman would ultimate be vastly more difficult. You want punishment not only before trial, but before evidence. You want him in jail where he stays unless in a year or more he if he is found innocent. That way you assure he serves long jail time regardless. You're someone stirred up by public figures to lynch mob thinking. Fortunately, so far, no one in the criminal justice system has given that mentality legitimacy.

When there is forensic evidence supporting a charge they will make it. You'd make a particularly incompetent cop by what you are writing.

Even given the the absurd notion that one can't be arrested on the spot with a literal smoking gun, people are outraged because it appears no investigation leading to a possible prosecution took place. A witnesses story was changed and the operator thought Zimmerman sounded intoxicated but no blood tests were performed. Even playing it by your book, it seems you're more upset that apparent police incompetence or perhaps a poor piece of legislation are being held up to public scrutiny.

To summarise, people want a proper investigation and will probably be appeased by one now even if there wasn't one at the time. And a "Not Guilty" is acceptable if that's what a court finds.

 

[mac]

Re: Family of Florida teen killed by neighborhood watch volunteer feel 'betrayed' by

ok, being familiar with the witness testimonies, the 911 tape, the call to the girl friend and the histories of zimmerman and the kid, you construct for us the evidence which absolutely tells us that the kid did not initiate the physical assault. the one zimmerman insists is what resulted in his broken/bloody nose and scalp wound, and then his drawing his weapon in self defense
you imply that sufficient data now exists to unwind this matter, tell us why zimmerman's account cannot have been a possible outcome

Who initiated physical contact is secondary (and immaterial) to whom initiated the confrontation, which was clearly Zimmerman.