Exclusive: White House preparing draft national emergency order and identified $7 billion for wall

[apdst]

Umm, rule of law anyone?

The president has the legal authority to declare an emergency. A judge can't revoke that authority.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/09/683501440/congress-aims-to-control-presidents-emergency-powers

 

[jghiretire]

This could be a bluff or not. I wouldn't put it past him to declare a national emergency and steal the $7 billion from another fund designated for emergency relief or something else. 'Rob from Peter to pay Paul' thing.


Exclusive: White House preparing draft national emergency order and identified $7 billion for wall

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/24/politics/trump-border-wall-emergency-draft/index.html

Washington (CNN)The White House is preparing a draft proclamation for President Donald Trump to declare a national emergency along the southern border and has identified more than $7 billion in potential funds for his signature border wall should he go that route, according to internal documents reviewed by CNN.

Trump has not ruled out using his authority to declare a national emergency and direct the Defense Department to construct a border wall as Congress and the White House fight over a deal to end the government shutdown. But while Trump's advisers remain divided on the issue, the White House has been moving forward with alternative plans that would bypass Congress.

He'd take it from Puerto Rico or California in a heartbeat.

 

[jghiretire]

Yep, and it would set a very dangerous precedent.

Yeah just wait until a Democratic President claims a national emergency over climate change. Which could actually happen.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

This is something a xenophobic authoritarian with no respect for the Constitution would do.

The REAL "national emergency" starts the moment some airplanes crash into buildings and mangled bodies start dropping on the ground like sacks of wet cement.

Trump blames the Democrats, declares a national emergency, suspends the Constitution and cancels the 2020 elections.

Yeah yeah I know, "it can't happen here" and "Trump would never do such a thing".
Watch him do it.

 

[MateoMtnClimber]

People don't see this as a crisis because it has never been called out for what it is...A crisis. No President has had the balls to take on immigration until Trump. People are flooding across the border illegally, I'd say that is a crisis.

Flooding, you say? Have you seriously considered illegal immigration or just watched the FOX News misinformation about it?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

He'd take it from Puerto Rico or California in a heartbeat.

You don't understand, he already DID take it from California, about a week ago.

Where were you when it was on the news?
It's an act of war against California.

 

[HumblePi]

He'd take it from Puerto Rico or California in a heartbeat.

Or from the military budget

 

[washunut]

Flooding, you say? Have you seriously considered illegal immigration or just watched the FOX News misinformation about it?

Not sure what that means. How many unskilled illegal immigrants, unfairly competing with low skilled Americans is too many for you? Seems to me that favoring this type of illegal immigration is the equivalent of slave traders in prior centuries.

 

[HumblePi]

People don't see this as a crisis because it has never been called out for what it is...A crisis. No President has had the balls to take on immigration until Trump. People are flooding across the border illegally, I'd say that is a crisis.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The total number of unauthorized immigrants living in the United States hasn’t been this low in 14 years!!

The biggest deporter was — ready? President Barack Obama! Deportations rose during the George W. Bush and Obama administrations — from 211,000 in 2003 to a record 433,000 in 2013, according to Department of Homeland Security statistics. In 2006, the Secure Fence Act passed with bipartisan support requiring the construction of physical barriers along 700 miles of the nearly 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border. In 2013, all Senate Democrats and most House Democrats backed comprehensive immigration reform legislation, the so-called Gang of Eight bill. It included $46 billion for border security and around $8 billion to repair or reinforce barriers along the 700 miles of the border as required under the Secure Fence Act.

 

[Mongidig]

Flooding, you say? Have you seriously considered illegal immigration or just watched the FOX News misinformation about it?

I was just passively watching TV and thought it was on CNN. I was surprised how they were just reporting what was going on at the border. They showed videos of hundreds of illegals being dropped off by busses and just walking over the border. I was shocked how objective they were being then I realized it was NBC. They interviewed border patrol and they made it clear they needed a wall. Even though these guy's may not be getting payed they continue to do the job because they have a mission to stop these people.

I get your point though. If you are watching CNN there obviously is no crisis. In fact you probably cheer the illegals as you seem to do with most people involved in criminal activity. Look at all the new democrats coming over the border...yeah!

A crisis on CNN is when little Don Lemon gets his feeling hurt. At least he gets to talk it out with his buddy Cuomo.

 

[Napoleon]

I think that's pretty different. The president has broad war powers, mostly because Congress abdicated them after 9/11. The president has no power over appropriations. He cannot work around Congress to get money that they refuse to give him. I just can't imagine the SCOTUS allowing that.

Congress gave the President this authority so I don’t see what choice SCOTUS has but to accept it.

 

[ashurbanipal]

The admin should just refuse to follow a judges order, the law gives judges no authority to question the president’s judgement here, so trump should order it built post haste and then simply pardon the officials in charge of any contempt orders

So, when the next democrat president uses this same idea to, say, raise taxes on the wealthy to 80%--commanding the FBI or whoever to forcibly collect and ignore all the lawsuits and so on that would be filed--we can expect you to think that's OK?

 

[uptower]

The president has the legal authority to declare an emergency. A judge can't revoke that authority.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/09/683501440/congress-aims-to-control-presidents-emergency-powers

So what's to stop a president declaring an emergency when there isn't one? Can Congress? They'd need a 2/3 majority IIRC. Hard to get in these partisan times unless the GOP led senate cares more about the country than Trumpism.

Because there is no emergency here except the danger to Trump's ego.

 

[apdst]

So what's to stop a president declaring an emergency when there isn't one? Can Congress? They'd need a 2/3 majority IIRC. Hard to get in these partisan times unless the GOP led senate cares more about the country than Trumpism.

Because there is no emergency here except the danger to Trump's ego.

The law's the law.

 

[uptower]

The law's the law.

Once people start twisting the law to their own ends, it's not really, anymore is it?

This like many things will catch up with him.

 

[apdst]

Once people start twisting the law to their own ends, it's not really, anymore is it?

This like many things will catch up with him.

The law isn't being twisted. Read the link I posted earlier in the thread. The law, passed by Congress, leave very few hurdles for a president to clear in order to declare an emergency.

If Congress doesn't like the law, they have the constitutional authority to change it.

 

[uptower]

The law isn't being twisted. Read the link I posted earlier in the thread. The law, passed by Congress, leave very few hurdles for a president to clear in order to declare an emergency.

If Congress doesn't like the law, they have the constitutional authority to change it.

'Legal' or not this is deeply immoral. I would argue that the president has the moral responsibility not to abuse the law just because it allows him certain powers.

Congress may very well find one day that declaring an emergency when there isn't one, or by manufacturing one for his own political ends, the president is committing 'high crimes and misdemeanors'. The law also allows for impeachment for just such an eventuality, when the president commits a crime that only a president, by definition can commit.

His other offenses: campaign finance, obstruction, potential collusion, bribery, self-dealing and general skulduggery may be easier to define if it is found he committed such. But impeachment exists for precisely those crimes that only someone holding office, and abusing that office is in a position to commit.

Let's look at the possibilities:

Lying to the people. This goes beyond merely unfulfilled campaign promises, or misrepresenting policies.
Demanding federal funds under false pretenses
Seizing land under imminent domain, under false pretenses

And not to mention the dangerous precedent: remember in future a president might want to declare a state of emergency for something the Right wing doesn't care about. How about climate change? Women's reproductive health? How about forcing states to stop restrictive voter ID laws and registration purges? What about term limits, campaign finance limits, overturning Citizen's United? Protecting press freedoms or claiming down on the proud boys or the KKK? To shut down the government (again), to seize firearms; What if they start rounding up freaking gingers?

This is a good time to make the 'slippery slope argument' because until now no emergency has been declared that was challenged by congress and the people. If the president gets away with it this time, what will he and future presidents use it for?

 

[Khalix]

How can he declare a crisis when border crossings are down and for two years it wasn't a crisis with a REPUBLICAN congress?

EDIT: I don't think even his new founded SCOTUS boys would rule in his favor on that one.

I think this depends on how crisis is defined.

Border crossings being down might not be the metric which crisis is defined as. Certainly you can try to make the argument it wasn’t a crisis for the last two years....

I think one could argue:
Cost of illegals
Crime of illegals

We are technically broke. We haven’t in any way shape or form reduced our debt load. However cost for housing illegal is expensive. We can’t process them fast enough and of course pick your crime stat.

So how crisis is defined is pretty important

 

[HumblePi]

The law isn't being twisted. Read the link I posted earlier in the thread. The law, passed by Congress, leave very few hurdles for a president to clear in order to declare an emergency.

If Congress doesn't like the law, they have the constitutional authority to change it.

I actually hope he dares to declare a national emergency and tries to use money set aside for emergency relief or for the military. I'd love seeing him slapped down by Nancy Pelosi again, I just never get tired of it.

 

[Praxas]

I think this depends on how crisis is defined.

Border crossings being down might not be the metric which crisis is defined as. Certainly you can try to make the argument it wasn’t a crisis for the last two years....

I think one could argue:
Cost of illegals
Crime of illegals

We are technically broke. We haven’t in any way shape or form reduced our debt load. However cost for housing illegal is expensive. We can’t process them fast enough and of course pick your crime stat.

So how crisis is defined is pretty important

Well like I said before, if border crossings are down and it wasn’t a crisis for two years with republicans in charge, it isn’t one now.

 

[apdst]

I actually hope he dares to declare a national emergency and tries to use money set aside for emergency relief or for the military. I'd love seeing him slapped down by Nancy Pelosi again, I just never get tired of it.

There isn't anything Pelosi can do, without a 2/3 vote.

 

[HumblePi]

There isn't anything Pelosi can do, without a 2/3 vote.

Seriously, it's a House controlled by a majority of democrats.

 

[apdst]

Seriously, it's a House controlled by a majority of democrats.

Not a 2/3 majority and she would have to have 2/3 of the Senate, too. So...good luck!

 

[uptower]

I think this depends on how crisis is defined.

Border crossings being down might not be the metric which crisis is defined as. Certainly you can try to make the argument it wasn’t a crisis for the last two years....

I think one could argue:
Cost of illegals
Crime of illegals

We are technically broke. We haven’t in any way shape or form reduced our debt load. However cost for housing illegal is expensive. We can’t process them fast enough and of course pick your crime stat.

So how crisis is defined is pretty important

It's going to be hard to prove the crime of illegals, as there are metrics for that and it is demonstrated their crime rate is a quarter of native born residents. Cost would have to be weighed up against the cost of the wall and also their contribution to the economy over many years to come.

Of course Trump supporters won't care about these numbers: their position will be either 'fake news' or the more reasonable, 'Well any amount is too much'.

There's also a question of urgency. If it's an 'emergency' why does it need a minimum down payment to cover field studies and initial equipment costs, to be followed presumably by a decades-long construction project that will need more appropriations for many budget cycles to come. Are we going to declare them all emergencies? And who'll be there to declare it when Trump's gone?

One article I read made a nice analogy: if your house is on fire you don't shout, quick, we need a study and costing then land purchased for a new fire station to be built and manned so they can come and put my house out.

This thing just doesn't have any legs.

 

[haymarket]

The REAL "national emergency" starts the moment some airplanes crash into buildings and mangled bodies start dropping on the ground like sacks of wet cement.

Trump blames the Democrats, declares a national emergency, suspends the Constitution and cancels the 2020 elections.

Yeah yeah I know, "it can't happen here" and "Trump would never do such a thing".
Watch him do it.

Trump must be removed from office today as he is the greatest single threat to our nation since the fall of the Axis powers in 1945.