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Excellent column on Sanders for VP

How is voting for someone who doesn't represent any of my causes going to help my causes get across? To be honest, as disgusting as it is, Trump is probably better on many of my top causes than Hillary. He's better in campaign finance reform, and he's better on war and peace. Are you really so baffled that not everyone who is a loyal democrat who just blindly votes for anyone with a D next to their name?



Right. The things she has adopted I can't trust because she only "adopted" them after Sanders did. How could I possibly trust her to stick to her word?

So it finally comes out. You DO like Trump better and that explains a lot. Just don't pretend you are a progressive or really care about who gets elected as long as it is not Hillary. You are obsessed with stopping her and that is about all. Some of us have better things to do and more things to worry about than that.
 
It's a point worth raising and discussing, but ultimately it just won't happen like McGovern. The country is different, and in ways that couldn't make us more different than 1970. Then, Gen X (which is one of the most conservative generations in their youth ever, even more pro-conservative than the Silent Generation was when they were young) combined with the then very conservative Silent Generation, and the aging Boomers had began to settle down and were naturally slightly more conservative. That meant (very unfortunately) that there just wasn't going to be sizeable demographic to support the New Deal established order politics. And so it's not surprising that Neoliberalism then became the established-order political philosophy.

In 2016, we have the literal opposite phenomena, and actually even stronger. The Silent Generation is now dying off, Boomers are contain a larger and more vocally left-wing (or at least sympathetic to left-wing politics), Gen X'ers have started to become a little skeptical of Reaganomics, and Millennials are off the charts Left-wing. Further more, we have some polling on the "iPad generation"/Generation Z, and they are just as off the charts Left-wing because they're looking at the exact same economic prospects as Millennials. So far, the political views are a carbon copy of Millennials. By the next presidency, these 18 years olds will only have memories of living in an economic recession.

The traditional conservative Republican party, Neoliberalism/Reaganomics, the Middle-Way Democratic party, et al, are all dead. They just don't know it yet.



Well, there's an obstruction to this happening, and their name is Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is slightly to the left of Bill, but she's a die-hard neoliberal, a die-hard interventionist, and while she's committed to specific progressive capital investments (for instance, HBC's) and a few social justice issues (e.g. equal pay for women), she definitely is ideologically opposed to virtually all of Sanders' policies. I don't believe that Hillary is just corrupt (There's definite cases where she has been, mind you, like her bankruptcy bill vote), but on the whole I think she and Bill get the Wall Street money because they're True Believers in neoliberalism, etc. So there's basically no chance whatsoever that Hillary will compromise with Sanders, particularly because she's surrounded herself with yes-men and yes-women who have collectively seem to believe that Hillary is "owed" the presidential nomination, and view Sanders as being an illegitimate candidate and a literal "usurper." I don't think they used that language merely to be provocative, I think they genuinely view Hillary as the "heir" to Obama and think Sanders is an "illegitimate bastard" in the formal sense of the term, and so she will not make any concessions with Sanders.

If there's any doubt of this, it's noteworthy that her speech language has changed wildly over the months, but her policies haven't changed one iota since August of 2015. A little bit Sanders but largely Warren (because there was serious DNC support for a Warren bid) made Hillary change two policies; the first is that she's now said she's against TPP and she's said that she's against KeystoneXL. Her policies have not changed one iota since August of 2015, which matches basically everything else she's said since 2013 (her change on gay marriage) and before. She's had months to "evolve" on a few key policies that would have probably shut down Sanders campaign months ago --but she just won't do it. That's been the most noteworthy thing of the 2016 Democratic primary. If she didn't do it then, I see no compelling reason why she's going to do it now. Not unless the DNC (which a few key large players are starting to) tells her to wrap it up and make peace with Sanders or else they will throw Bidden in because the fact that she's trailing Trump is worrying the **** out of them.

Most generational demarcations I've seen put the Baby Boomers as those born '45 to '64, Gen X as '65 to '82, Gen Y (aka Millenials) as '83 - '00, all +/- 1 depending on the source I don't see Gen x having much effect on the '72 election, seeing as the oldest of them was 7 at the time.

Her trying to walk away from TPP has as much credibility as Romney walking away from Romneycare. She was SoS during a large part of the negotiations, she was talking it up for years, and she promoted it as the "gold standard". How that isn't a deal breaker for Sanders or those leaning to Trump but still open, I can't see.
 
Sanders would be a shrewd VP pick. Not sure he'll bring out the cheeto-stained paws of his stoner base to vote for Hillary, but it'll make the election even more bizarre.
 
Sanders would be a shrewd VP pick. Not sure he'll bring out the cheeto-stained paws of his stoner base to vote for Hillary, but it'll make the election even more bizarre.
If he agreed, it would have to be for the pay bump, as nothing neutralizes opposition as much as being buried in the VP slot with no realistic shot at POTUS in 8. He'd be running at 83 in '24. It woukd make Reagan look like a spring chicken.
 
So it finally comes out. You DO like Trump better and that explains a lot. Just don't pretend you are a progressive or really care about who gets elected as long as it is not Hillary. You are obsessed with stopping her and that is about all. Some of us have better things to do and more things to worry about than that.
Is it that difficult or surprising that some people go across party lines when ranking candidates? His seems to go Sanders, Trump, Clinton rather than Democrat, Democrat, leave country.
 
Is it that difficult or surprising that some people go across party lines when ranking candidates? His seems to go Sanders, Trump, Clinton rather than Democrat, Democrat, leave country.

On the contrary, I find it quite predictable that the #anyonebuthillary crowd would like Trump. He is the one opposing her isn't he? That is all that counts with that crowd no matter what their "lean".It is not a political thing as much as it is a "personality" disorder.
 
Have no idea of what their problem is...or how they think they will advance their cause by allowing the Republicans to do the nominations of candidates for the SCOTUS.

I think they are nuts.

Well great, at least you recognize that, and I just want you to recognize the fact that it's so far reaching that just the SCOTUS alone makes it possible for some to put up with whatever else irks them about Hillary.
Remember, I did say I was a Bernie man ;)
Ain't got no love for HRC, but I fear a Trump presidency on a mortal and molecular level.
 
So it finally comes out. You DO like Trump better and that explains a lot. Just don't pretend you are a progressive or really care about who gets elected as long as it is not Hillary. You are obsessed with stopping her and that is about all. Some of us have better things to do and more things to worry about than that.

Nope. Still can't stand Trump and would never vote for him. The point is that Hillary is nothing like Bernie on the points that really matter to me and you still haven't given me a good reason to vote for a war hawk with no interest in being progressive.

Look, we get it, you don't spend as much time as the rest of us looking at the issues and the candidates, you just mindlessly vote for whomever the DNC tells you to, but can you really not understand why we're not all as spineless?
I think Peewee Herman does though.

Vote for him.

So if I don't vote for corrupt war hawk Hillary Clinton who sells herself to corporations like a cheap whore and wants to put people who own the wrong plant in cages, I should vote for Pee Wee Herman.

I see you've reached the end of your intellectual rope. When you're ready to tell me why I should vote against my best interests for a candidate that has no intention of addressing my most important issues, I'll be here.
 
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Vermont is a swing state?

How many people really live there?

A few hundred, I think. I was kidding. I have my doubts Bernie is on Hillary's short list, but I've been wrong in predicting politics more often than not. My record is a little better in other things. I'll think of those other things eventually. Could take some time...
 
Excellent column on Sanders for VP

i support Sanders. that being said, he'd be a poor pick, because Vermont is not in play, and Clinton needs to deal with electoral math / bring in the middle. i'd recommend a very likable person from an essential swing state. this person has to be so likable and genuine that he or she can overcome the negatives of the candidate at the top of the ticket.

to Democrats in general,

don't do this to us again. you've chosen a legacy candidate who is more unlikable than Romney. the Republican party has been driven insane by Obama, so you guys are currently the only game in town. at least give us something that we can work with. and get rid of Wasserman-Shultz. the messaging of the party in general is just awful, and a blindfolded lemur throwing darts could do a better job at choosing issues to focus on. i mean, WTF. do you guys want to lose? to Trump? to ****ing Donald Trump? here, let me give you a quick rubric.

jobs
jobs
worker rights
jobs
bridges
roads
not doing insane things
jobs
good foreign policy that doesn't involve endless, unwinnable wars
not making you bankrupt because your kid wants to go to college
not making you bankrupt because you got sick
jobs.

i hope that this helps.

Regards,

Helix
 
So if I don't vote for corrupt war hawk Hillary Clinton who sells herself to corporations like a cheap whore and wants to put people who own the wrong plant in cages, I should vote for Pee Wee Herman.

I see you've reached the end of your intellectual rope. When you're ready to tell me why I should vote against my best interests for a candidate that has no intention of addressing my most important issues, I'll be here.

If you value a progressive agenda...and want to protect and expand the safety net programs we have...(I'm not saying you do...and you may not)...BUT IF YOU DO...

...and you help a Republican to gain the White House...

...you should be voting for the likes of Peewee Herman...

...because your priorities are all screwed up.
 
If you value a progressive agenda...and want to protect and expand the safety net programs we have...(I'm not saying you do...and you may not)...BUT IF YOU DO...

...and you help a Republican to gain the White House...

...you should be voting for the likes of Peewee Herman...

...because your priorities are all screwed up.

LOOOOL!!! Progressive agenda. Hillary Clinton is anything but progressive. She's a center-right war hawk who epitomizes money-in-politics corruption. My #1 issue if you remember is getting money out of politics and reforming our political system. Hillary Clinton is probably the last politician in DC who would do that.

Like I said, you're free to mindlessly vote for whoever the democratic party chooses for you every election but I vote for a LEADER, NOT A PARTY.
 
LOOOOL!!! Progressive agenda. Hillary Clinton is anything but progressive. She's a center-right war hawk who epitomizes money-in-politics corruption. My #1 issue if you remember is getting money out of politics and reforming our political system. Hillary Clinton is probably the last politician in DC who would do that.

Like I said, you're free to mindlessly vote for whoever the democratic party chooses for you every election but I vote for a LEADER, NOT A PARTY.

If you are not aware enough to realize that Hillary Clinton, with all of the faults you perceive her to have, would be MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more likely to make political decisions which will protect and expand the safety net programs we now have...than any of the Republicans...

...you simply are not aware at all.

Look, you are free to do as you will in this election. And if you want to employ (or support) the childish snit the supporters of Bernie Sanders are engaged in...do it. But all you are doing is to support a foolish, childish, counterproductive fit of pique.

People who do it are worthy of one thing: derision. And that is what you will get from me.

So go vote for you LEADER.
 
Nope. Still can't stand Trump and would never vote for him. The point is that Hillary is nothing like Bernie on the points that really matter to me and you still haven't given me a good reason to vote for a war hawk with no interest in being progressive.

Look, we get it, you don't spend as much time as the rest of us looking at the issues and the candidates, you just mindlessly vote for whomever the DNC tells you to, but can you really not understand why we're not all as spineless?


So if I don't vote for corrupt war hawk Hillary Clinton who sells herself to corporations like a cheap whore and wants to put people who own the wrong plant in cages, I should vote for Pee Wee Herman.

I see you've reached the end of your intellectual rope. When you're ready to tell me why I should vote against my best interests for a candidate that has no intention of addressing my most important issues, I'll be here.

Because you are wrong about Hillary and she agrees with Sanders on issues far more than she disagrees. If your most important issued is universal HC you are screwed anyway. It will never happen under Sanders either. I already posted the comparison between Sanders and her twice. I will not do it again. Meanwhile you're throwing away your vote as a grand gesture when all it makes you is helpless. Helpless to make any effort to stop Trump from making a mockery of the U.S.A in front of the whole world. It's sad really.
 
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If you are not aware enough to realize that Hillary Clinton, with all of the faults you perceive her to have, would be MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more likely to make political decisions which will protect and expand the safety net programs we now have...than any of the Republicans...

...you simply are not aware at all.

Look, you are free to do as you will in this election. And if you want to employ (or support) the childish snit the supporters of Bernie Sanders are engaged in...do it. But all you are doing is to support a foolish, childish, counterproductive fit of pique.

People who do it are worthy of one thing: derision. And that is what you will get from me.

So go vote for you LEADER.
Because you are wrong about Hillary and she agrees with Sanders on issues far more than she disagrees. If your most important issued is universal HC you are screwed anyway. It will never happen under Sanders either. I already posted the comparison between Sanders and her twice. I will not do it again. Meanwhile you're throwing away your vote as a grand gesture when all it makes you is helpless. Helpless to make any effort to stop Trump from making a mockery of the U.S.A in front of the whole world. It's sad really.

"Anyone who doesn't vote for the same person as me deserves ridicule and derision and is wasting their vote."
 
It’s time to bury the hatchet, Democrats. Supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders need to accept that Hillary Clinton has the nomination all but sewn up, and Clinton’s supporters need to stop counting delegates long enough to face the fact that Sanders won the policy debate, hands down. With the end of the primary season just weeks away, the two candidates need to brush themselves off, shake hands, and begin quietly preparing to take on Republican nominee Donald Trump together – with Clinton at the top of the ticket and Sanders as her running mate.
Hillary must pick Bernie for VP: She may even need him more than he needs her - Salon.com

First off I said I would reevaluate if it was Trump/Sanders, that maybe then I move Sanders from my #2 to my guy, but that does not go if he is Clintons VP pick.

The message of the 2016 primary season is loud and clear: Americans want change, which means they want what Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are selling, even if they have deep reservations about the temperament and rhetoric of the men themselves. Hillary Clinton needs to hear that. The Democratic Party needs to hear that. And the best way for Clinton to let voters know she’s listening would be for her to set aside her differences with Sanders and put him on the ticket as vice president.
Super, but who here thinks that Sanders as VP would have any influence? That is not how the Clintons operate, they give the orders, everyone else follows them, this is not a pattern that is ever going to change.
 
"Anyone who doesn't vote for the same person as me deserves ridicule and derision and is wasting their vote."

Anyone who sees any value in protecting a progressive agenda and the safety net programs the agenda advances...who allows his/her vote to help put a Republican in office...

...is more than wasting his/her vote. He/she is subverting the causes he/she supposedly supports.

It is much more than waste...it is outright subversion.
 
Anyone who sees any value in protecting a progressive agenda and the safety net programs the agenda advances...who allows his/her vote to help put a Republican in office...

...is more than wasting his/her vote. He/she is subverting the causes he/she supposedly supports.

It is much more than waste...it is outright subversion.

"Anyone who doesn't vote for the same person as me is subverting progressivism and wasting their vote."
 
"Anyone who doesn't vote for the same person as me is subverting progressivism and wasting their vote."

Do your best to see that Hillary Clinton does not win this election...and see how that works out for you...and for our country.

Sad.

I never thought I would see progressives make the same stupid mistakes as conservatives. But the desire to pollute and subvert the progressive agenda by progressives is obviously as compelling to some as the desire of some conservatives to pollute their agenda.
 
Do your best to see that Hillary Clinton does not win this election...and see how that works out for you...and for our country.

Sad.

I never thought I would see progressives make the same stupid mistakes as conservatives. But the desire to pollute and subvert the progressive agenda by progressives is obviously as compelling to some as the desire of some conservatives to pollute their agenda.

The idea that one person can fix everything is asinine and inappropriate. Members of Bernie's support base are already pushing to, at the very least, get him on the ticket. I don't see any possible way that could be "stupid", a "mistake", or in any way, shape or form "pollute" or "subvert" the progressive agenda.
Not only does that not make any sense, it is literally ****ing impossible.
Let that sink in for a moment, and take a break from the knee-jerk, Status-Quoism.
 
The idea that one person can fix everything is asinine and inappropriate. Members of Bernie's support base are already pushing to, at the very least, get him on the ticket. I don't see any possible way that could be "stupid", a "mistake", or in any way, shape or form "pollute" or "subvert" the progressive agenda.
Not only does that not make any sense, it is literally ****ing impossible.
Let that sink in for a moment, and take a break from the knee-jerk, Status-Quoism.

I do not have knee-jerk moments, Abba. My thinking in this area has been fairly consistent.

If Bernie Sanders is chosen for the ticket, I will consider it a singularly bad move on Hillary's part.

I think the world of Bernie's ideas...and I want the US to be headed in the direction he advocates for. But he is not the guy for the job...and in my opinion, the negatives of his socialist label FAR OUTWEIGH whatever positives he can bring to the ticket.

His contribution has already been made...and will be allowed to be expanded by his role at the convention. I would not be surprised to see him invited as an Independent to address the Democratic Party convention.
 
His contribution has already been made...and will be allowed to be expanded by his role at the convention. I would not be surprised to see him invited as an Independent to address the Democratic Party convention.

But, then they would inadvertently push him to run third-party, alienate all of his independent supporters (and the Democrats supporting him), and further stoke sectarian strife within the country. Is that what you want? Do you want Civil War? Because that's how you get Civil War.

A minority-rule by a minority-run Oligarch Party is going to have an adverse affect on any form of hope of Progressivism, at best.
At worst, we get Trump President and the end of the world...
 
But, then they would inadvertently push him to run third-party, alienate all of his independent supporters (and the Democrats supporting him), and further stoke sectarian strife within the country. Is that what you want? Do you want Civil War? Because that's how you get Civil War.

A minority-rule by a minority-run Oligarch Party is going to have an adverse affect on any form of hope of Progressivism, at best.
At worst, we get Trump President and the end of the world...

I do not think Bernie will run third party...and I to not think inviting him to give a (progressive) independent perspective at the convention will push him in that direction.

I do not want civil war.

I think the major moves have to come from Bernie's supporters...in acknowledging that Hillary has won this thing.

Giving Bernie a prominent voice at the convention is a huge move. It should be regarded as such by Bernie's supporters...and I hope it is.

Donald Trump as president is a nightmare worse than any I have ever considered before this year.
 
I think the major moves have to come from Bernie's supporters...in acknowledging that Hillary has won this thing.

Wrong. Both sides need to pull their weight. It is foolish to think that Bernie's most-devout supporters can be talked into acknowledging Hillary was won in addition to ruling out a Clinton-Sanders ticket in addition to being insulted by essentially purging him from the Party along with ALL of his supporters.

Giving Bernie a prominent voice at the convention is a huge move. It should be regarded as such by Bernie's supporters...and I hope it is.

And in addition, the Clinton camp needs to recognize how far Bernie Sanders and his movement have come, and pay it it's due respect at long last.

Donald Trump as president is a nightmare worse than any I have ever considered before this year.

Which is why both sides need to tread carefully not to piss one another off.

to think that Bernie's most-devout supporters can be talked into acknowledging Hillary was won in addition to ruling out a Clinton-Sanders ticket in addition to being insulted by essentially purging him from the Party along with ALL of his supporters.

^This is going to do that.
 
Do your best to see that Hillary Clinton does not win this election...and see how that works out for you...and for our country.

Sad.

I never thought I would see progressives make the same stupid mistakes as conservatives. But the desire to pollute and subvert the progressive agenda by progressives is obviously as compelling to some as the desire of some conservatives to pollute their agenda.

It's not about ****-blocking Hillary Clinton, it's about voting for the candidate that best represents my beliefs. I guess for someone like yourself without any principles or convictions that's extremely hard to comprehend. Hillary is absolutely horrible on over half of my top issues, and Trump is absolutely horrible on the other half. I have never, at any point, been a Hillary supporter or a Democrat, so I don't owe you or her a single ****ing thing.
 
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