• Please keep all posts on the Rittenhouse verdict here: Rittenhouse Verdict. Note the moderator warnings in the thread. The thread will be heavily moderated with a zero tolerance policy for any baiting, flaming, trolling or other rule breaks. Stick to the topic and not the other posters. Thank you.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Excellent column on Sanders for VP

haymarket

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
120,954
Reaction score
28,528
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
For a few weeks now I have been edging closer and closer to the idea that the Democratic Party should unite behind a ticket of Clinton & Sanders to preserve party unity and win the November election. Today, we have an excellent column from Peggy Noonan in the Wall Street Journal in which she explores the case for such a ticket. In addition ot the obvious short term advantages, she has some very insightful observations about both parties and their future.

Clinton-Sanders: Maybe That?s the Ticket - WSJ

Should Sanders continue to win, especially if he wins in California, this only becomes more and more the realistic way to go the same way that JFK picked his hated opposite Lyndon Johnson in 1960 and thereby won the election.

Your comments and observations are encouraged.
 

bubbabgone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
31,945
Reaction score
16,204
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
For a few weeks now I have been edging closer and closer to the idea that the Democratic Party should unite behind a ticket of Clinton & Sanders to preserve party unity and win the November election. Today, we have an excellent column from Peggy Noonan in the Wall Street Journal in which she explores the case for such a ticket. In addition ot the obvious short term advantages, she has some very insightful observations about both parties and their future.

Clinton-Sanders: Maybe That?s the Ticket - WSJ

Should Sanders continue to win, especially if he wins in California, this only becomes more and more the realistic way to go the same way that JFK picked his hated opposite Lyndon Johnson in 1960 and thereby won the election.

Your comments and observations are encouraged.

That would be great. A real opportunity for Hillary to try to shift to the center while Bernie is still careening to the Left. Not.
 

haymarket

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
120,954
Reaction score
28,528
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
That would be great. A real opportunity for Hillary to try to shift to the center while Bernie is still careening to the Left. Not.

The Trump wildcard is scaring many Democrat strategists into worrying about how many blue collar voters might be seduced by his anti free trade talk nd other issues that normally would be classified as on the left. The UAW recently revealed that 28% of their members favor Trump and if they lost that group - heaven only knows what could happen in states like Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and a few others.

Sanders could be useful in bringing that group to the polls for vote Democratic.
 

humbolt

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
26,698
Reaction score
17,803
Location
SW Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Sanders could bring in Vermont, a crucial swing state. I don't think Sanders supporters would be mollified by the VP proposition.
 

bubbabgone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
31,945
Reaction score
16,204
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The Trump wildcard is scaring many Democrat strategists into worrying about how many blue collar voters might be seduced by his anti free trade talk nd other issues that normally would be classified as on the left. The UAW recently revealed that 28% of their members favor Trump and if they lost that group - heaven only knows what could happen in states like Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and a few others.

Sanders could be useful in bringing that group to the polls for vote Democratic.

The point is, do you think Bernie would be willing to follow Hillary's strategy of moving to the center in the general.
I may be wrong about Bernie but he doesn't strike me as that kind of of guy.
Wait ... I hope you're not thinking Hillary ran a centrist primary campaign.
 

haymarket

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
120,954
Reaction score
28,528
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The point is, do you think Bernie would be willing to follow Hillary's strategy of moving to the center in the general.
I may be wrong about Bernie but he doesn't strike me as that kind of of guy.
Wait ... I hope you're not thinking Hillary ran a centrist primary campaign.

My thinking on your questions center around the reality that Sanders has gone from a marginal quickly figure on the edges of politics to a real player and national hero to millions. And I think that changes a fellows self image and what he expects from himself. Sanders would be the proverbial heartbeat away from the oval office and that thought would both excite his supporters and scare his detractors. It would be the closest to putting a democratic socialist in the office since Henry Wallace was VP under FDR.

And, in the end, I think that allure would be far too bright for Sanders to reject and for his supporters to not get excited about and embrace.
 

Frank Apisa

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
11,492
Reaction score
2,718
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The last thing in the world I want...is Bernie Sanders as the vice presidential candidate with Hillary Clinton.

MY GUESS: Peggy Noonan, The Wall Street Journal, and the Republican Party base WOULD LOVE FOR BERNIE SANDERS TO BE THE VEEP CANDIDATE ON THE DEM TICKET.

My further guess is: The would love it because it would spell doom for the Dem ticket.

Hillary Clinton is NOT going to choose Bernie Sanders as a running mate...and since I want her to be elected, I am happy she will not.
 

bubbabgone

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
31,945
Reaction score
16,204
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
My thinking on your questions center around the reality that Sanders has gone from a marginal quickly figure on the edges of politics to a real player and national hero to millions. And I think that changes a fellows self image and what he expects from himself. Sanders would be the proverbial heartbeat away from the oval office and that thought would both excite his supporters and scare his detractors. It would be the closest to putting a democratic socialist in the office since Henry Wallace was VP under FDR.

And, in the end, I think that allure would be far too bright for Sanders to reject and for his supporters to not get excited about and embrace.

So you're saying he'd be willing to kill his integrity for Hillary.
 

DaveFagan

Iconoclast
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
10,090
Reaction score
5,056
Location
wny
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
My thinking on your questions center around the reality that Sanders has gone from a marginal quickly figure on the edges of politics to a real player and national hero to millions. And I think that changes a fellows self image and what he expects from himself. Sanders would be the proverbial heartbeat away from the oval office and that thought would both excite his supporters and scare his detractors. It would be the closest to putting a democratic socialist in the office since Henry Wallace was VP under FDR.

And, in the end, I think that allure would be far too bright for Sanders to reject and for his supporters to not get excited about and embrace.

That's an extemely insightful post and the analogy to Henry Wallace thought provoking. I can't see Bernie "the Peacenik" allying with Hillary "the Warmonger." They are on opposite sides of the fence on almost all issues. Hillary is sold out to Big Money and it is irreversible. I don't think Bernie could swallow that turd.
 

haymarket

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
120,954
Reaction score
28,528
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
So you're saying he'd be willing to kill his integrity for Hillary.

He is a politician. Draw your own conclusions.

For my part, they ALL make compromises with their integrity, their beliefs, and their values the minute they enter the profession.
 

haymarket

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
120,954
Reaction score
28,528
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The last thing in the world I want...is Bernie Sanders as the vice presidential candidate with Hillary Clinton.

MY GUESS: Peggy Noonan, The Wall Street Journal, and the Republican Party base WOULD LOVE FOR BERNIE SANDERS TO BE THE VEEP CANDIDATE ON THE DEM TICKET.

My further guess is: The would love it because it would spell doom for the Dem ticket.

Hillary Clinton is NOT going to choose Bernie Sanders as a running mate...and since I want her to be elected, I am happy she will not.

You are a party pooper Frank. ;)
 

Winchester

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,665
Reaction score
6,277
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
The last thing in the world I want...is Bernie Sanders as the vice presidential candidate with Hillary Clinton.

MY GUESS: Peggy Noonan, The Wall Street Journal, and the Republican Party base WOULD LOVE FOR BERNIE SANDERS TO BE THE VEEP CANDIDATE ON THE DEM TICKET.

My further guess is: The would love it because it would spell doom for the Dem ticket.

Hillary Clinton is NOT going to choose Bernie Sanders as a running mate...and since I want her to be elected, I am happy she will not.

Why do you think it will spell doom for the Dem ticket?
 

joG

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
43,839
Reaction score
9,638
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
For a few weeks now I have been edging closer and closer to the idea that the Democratic Party should unite behind a ticket of Clinton & Sanders to preserve party unity and win the November election. Today, we have an excellent column from Peggy Noonan in the Wall Street Journal in which she explores the case for such a ticket. In addition ot the obvious short term advantages, she has some very insightful observations about both parties and their future.

Clinton-Sanders: Maybe That?s the Ticket - WSJ

Should Sanders continue to win, especially if he wins in California, this only becomes more and more the realistic way to go the same way that JFK picked his hated opposite Lyndon Johnson in 1960 and thereby won the election.

Your comments and observations are encouraged.

He is the obvious second man for Clinton. He is a perfect poison pill, when she is up for impeachment.
 

Frank Apisa

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
11,492
Reaction score
2,718
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Why do you think it will spell doom for the Dem ticket?

Because of his use of the label Socialist.

It is my opinion that America is not ready to elect a person who claims to be a socialist at this time.
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
58,834
Reaction score
45,670
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Because of his use of the label Socialist.

It is my opinion that America is not ready to elect a person who claims to be a socialist at this time.
This will the bring the negative political stereotyping of the parties to bear:

Dems = Socialists
Repubs = Plutocratic Capitalists
 

Winchester

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,665
Reaction score
6,277
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Because of his use of the label Socialist.

It is my opinion that America is not ready to elect a person who claims to be a socialist at this time.

It's probably a generational thing. My in-laws who are in their 70's (life long blue collar democrats) feel that way, no way, no how do they want a "socialist"... too comi. The younger generation however like Bernie and Hillary not so much. I'm not sure when the tipping point will be (or if it's already here)... I guess that is the question.
 

Frank Apisa

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
11,492
Reaction score
2,718
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
This will the bring the negative political stereotyping of the parties to bear:

Dems = Socialists
Repubs = Plutocratic Capitalists

Make it Repubs = Fascist...and the Repubs will win over the Dems with someone identifying as a socialist.

America is NOT ready for a socialist. Unfortunately, we ARE ready for a Fascist. And if the Sanders people do not get on board, we may end up heading toward fascism in a big way...by electing Donald Trump.
 

Frank Apisa

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
11,492
Reaction score
2,718
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
It's probably a generational thing. My in-laws who are in their 70's (life long blue collar democrats) feel that way, no way, no how do they want a "socialist"... too comi. The younger generation however like Bernie and Hillary not so much. I'm not sure when the tipping point will be (or if it's already here)... I guess that is the question.

I am much, much closer in personal political philosophy to Bernie Sanders than I am to Hillary Clinton, Winchester. But I am a pragmatist...and I DO NOT WANT A REPUBLICAN in the White House.

Hillary Clinton can win; Bernie Sanders cannot.

I hope we SOON get to the point where a socialist COULD be elected; we could use a healthy dose of socialism to rein in the abomination capitalism has become here.

But we ARE NOT there yet.

All opinion, of course.
 

Winchester

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,665
Reaction score
6,277
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I am much, much closer in personal political philosophy to Bernie Sanders than I am to Hillary Clinton, Winchester. But I am a pragmatist...and I DO NOT WANT A REPUBLICAN in the White House.

Hillary Clinton can win; Bernie Sanders cannot.

I hope we SOON get to the point where a socialist COULD be elected; we could use a healthy dose of socialism to rein in the abomination capitalism has become here.

But we ARE NOT there yet.

All opinion, of course.

I know they're polls but how does one explain Bernie doing better in the general than Hillary?
 

iguanaman

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
55,607
Reaction score
20,478
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
I know they're polls but how does one explain Bernie doing better in the general than Hillary?

Bernie is a virtual unknown and Republicans are not going after him...unless he is nominated that is. Polls can (and will) change.
 

Winchester

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,665
Reaction score
6,277
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Bernie is a virtual unknown and Republicans are not going after him...unless he is nominated that is. Polls can (and will) change.

Oh, IDK if I'd go as far as saying he's a virtual unknown at this point. That being said, yeah, he hasn't been in the Republican's crosshairs yet.
 

Skeptic Bob

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
16,626
Reaction score
19,488
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
The point is, do you think Bernie would be willing to follow Hillary's strategy of moving to the center in the general.
I may be wrong about Bernie but he doesn't strike me as that kind of of guy.
Wait ... I hope you're not thinking Hillary ran a centrist primary campaign.

No, he wouldn't. If Bernie agreed to be her running mate I am certain there would be some major strings attached. And as VP, an elected position, if Hillary went back on her word to him regarding those strings, he could make her life very difficult. I doubt a VP Sanders would just sit back and be a Yes Man. Which is also why I highly doubt Hillary would ask him to be her VP. I also doubt her donors would allow it.

I am personally on the fence over whether or not I would be willing to vote for her if she made Bernie her running mate. I would have to hear from Bernie what we would be getting out of it.
 

Frank Apisa

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
11,492
Reaction score
2,718
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I know they're polls but how does one explain Bernie doing better in the general than Hillary?

There is a devoted socialistic inclined voting bloc in the Dem Party; the are going solidly for Bernie.

Among people identifying as Republican...I suspect he would do poorly in the General Election, even among Republicans looking for an outsider/non-establishment candidate...and even among the never-Trump people.

I could be wrong.
 

FieldTheorist

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
2,348
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
For a few weeks now I have been edging closer and closer to the idea that the Democratic Party should unite behind a ticket of Clinton & Sanders to preserve party unity and win the November election. Today, we have an excellent column from Peggy Noonan in the Wall Street Journal in which she explores the case for such a ticket. In addition ot the obvious short term advantages, she has some very insightful observations about both parties and their future.

Clinton-Sanders: Maybe That?s the Ticket - WSJ

Should Sanders continue to win, especially if he wins in California, this only becomes more and more the realistic way to go the same way that JFK picked his hated opposite Lyndon Johnson in 1960 and thereby won the election.

Your comments and observations are encouraged.

I don't believe that Hillary Clinton would ever compromise with Sanders. She may pick Warren, but even then, I'm not convinced I'd vote for her. Still, I might because after Hillary is done, Warren would become president for sure in 2024, should Hillary get elected. That means 8 more years of neoliberalism, but the country would be shifting to the Left, so maybe not.

I'm not sure, Hillary has to do something about party unity, but I can say quite confidently she and DWS are currently doing their damnedest to divide the party.
 

Citizen.Seven

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
1,967
Reaction score
718
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I'd have to wonder if Sanders would take the VP slot. Sure, it's a pay bump, but it's a largely powerless and ceremonial position. Is the extra money worth it to serve as HRCs attack dog for 4 or 8 years? He'll be 75 on election day, so doing the 8 years for a chance to sit in the big chair isn't really that realistic, running at 83. As for the "heartbeat away", I would expect his would probably give out before HRCs.

What I do expect is Bill to die in the White House, probably late 2019.
 
Top Bottom