Eliminate private schools?

[ChuckBerry]

Private school for me has nothing to do with privilege or power. It's about religious instruction, something my child would not get in a public school. Weekly Sunday school classes are not sufficient. I want my child to marinate in Catholicism 6 days a week.

 

[Guy Incognito]

I would disagree and say that it has meaning, but the supreme court can ignore this meaning and decide however they wish.

So it has a meaning, but that meaning is known only to you has no impact on the real world?

 

[Boo Radley]

Yeah public schools are not selective at all. And the teachers don't give a **** about the students because they are just bureaucrats moving cattle. All that matters is the standardized test, that's the only thing that influences a teacher's paycheck. Not the success of the student, but the success of the student on a standardized test. The bureaucrat has no true motivation. You may get the odd bird who likes helping people, but if you're relying on that you've already lost. People only care about money. You want to get results for students? Make the teacher's paycheck dependent on it. The only way to accomplish that is complete privatization. It already has worked for the upper class. Government needs to get out of the way and let it work for the lower class.

Like I said, you are stuck on some serious misgivings and locked onto stereotypes, largely showing you don't really know teachers. Can I find some who don't care? Sure. Can I fine some burned out? Absolutely. But there are also courageous teachers who reach people everyday, even if the fruits of their labor takes years to be seen.

And I see no evidence at all that compete privatization would do any better. As i said, nothing stops the private sector right now.

 

[Boo Radley]

It's an accurate generalization, and you can only take your anecdotal experience so far.

By all means, present some serious study. I'd love to see one.

 

[Boo Radley]

What is the public school drop-out rate, compared to the percentage of private school students who are *removed*?

What they don't take in to start with, and what they purge comes out to be about the same. I showed that with one school in another thread. They loose as many or more, and if we factored them in in, they look like a public school.

But again, my challenge stands: Show me anything they do differently in instruction.

 

[Federalist]

So it has a meaning, but that meaning is known only to you has no impact on the real world?

Known only to me? Nope. Known only to the supreme court? Nope.

 

[jonny5]

Wouldnt an simpler solution be to just improve public schools? I dont get this liberal obsession with forcing everyone to suffer equally.

 

[Federalist]

Wouldnt an simpler solution be to just improve public schools? I dont get this liberal obsession with forcing everyone to suffer equally.

...which explains why you're not a liberal.

 

[Henrin]

And I see no evidence at all that compete privatization would do any better. As i said, nothing stops the private sector right now.

What does public schools do to demand?

 

[Henrin]

So really the constitution has no meaning beyond what a partisan high court gives it.

The biggest mistake of the founders was how the supreme court functions.

But then again, the supreme court almost immediately gave themselves more power than intended.

The second mistake of the founders was the scope of the tenth amendment that allows states to put in place a public education system.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Known only to me? Nope. Known only to the supreme court? Nope.

What does it matter what the "true" meaning is if the SCOTUUS can and will disregard it for political reasons? Doesn't it make more sense to think of SCOTUS as partisan, and the "meaning" of the constitution as subject to partisan whim rather than fixed?

 

[Quag]

=ThePlayDrive;1060907139]I don't think that's what we should do either and I'm not sure that Buffet does. However, I think it's an interesting way of singling some of the problems of public education.


Why? If the richest and most involved and successful parents and politicians don't know where their kids are going to end up, wouldn't they work to make sure that all schools are the best?

Actually the richest would probably send their children to other countries for private schools, it would be those below the richest but above the average who might do this, but I don't think so, There are already many aprents involved to try and make sure their children's school is the best possible. Effort and good intentions are not all that it takes any more than throwing tons of cash at it. You need effort/good ideas/good teachers/management/cash and so much more to make a good school.

 

[Guy Incognito]

The biggest mistake of the founders was how the supreme court functions.

But then again, the supreme court almost immediately gave themselves more power than intended.

The second mistake of the founders was the scope of the tenth amendment that allows states to put in place a public education system.

Personally I think their biggest mistake was not outlawing slavery. But your point is well taken.

 

[Boo Radley]

What does public schools do to demand?

Very little. If you're unhappy, the market should provide someone to fill that need. Unless of course the need would be too costly to try and provide.

 

[jimbo]

Wouldnt an simpler solution be to just improve public schools? I dont get this liberal obsession with forcing everyone to suffer equally.

Equality is and has been at least since Roosevelt the goal of the liberal, and since it is impossible to equal up the only possible solution is to equal down.

 

[Federalist]

What does it matter what the "true" meaning is if the SCOTUUS can and will disregard it for political reasons? Doesn't it make more sense to think of SCOTUS as partisan, and the "meaning" of the constitution as subject to partisan whim rather than fixed?

The constitution is a written set of rules. These written rules were agreed to by the states that established the constitution between themselves. Presumably, the state ratifying conventions understood what it is they were signing onto when they ratified, without the supreme court telling them exactly what the document they were signing on to meant.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

According to Warren Buffet, an easy way to eliminate the problems of urban education would be to 'Make private schools illegal and assign every child to a public school by random lottery.'

Do you agree or disagree?

To me it sounds like, "Some people have ****ty lives and others do not, let's make everyone's life ****ty."

 

[Henrin]

Very little. If you're unhappy, the market should provide someone to fill that need. Unless of course the need would be too costly to try and provide.

So you think the government providing the need does very little to demand? Seriously? :lamo

 

[Boo Radley]

So you think the government providing the need does very little to demand? Seriously? :lamo

Yeah, seriously. Private schools have been a large part of this country. They still are. People still pay to send their kids to them. But the market knows that a service that depends on the work of the customer, and that you will be judge based on their work, is a loser if you don't weed out.

 

[Henrin]

Yeah, seriously. Private schools have been a large part of this country. They still are. People still pay to send their kids to them. But the market knows that a service that depends on the work of the customer, and that you will be judge based on their work, is a loser if you don't weed out.

Can we keep on track without changing the goalposts for once? The fact is if the government is providing it to people that less people are going to even bother looking at the private sector and there is going to be less of a demand for it in the private sector.

 

[lizzie]

What they don't take in to start with, and what they purge comes out to be about the same. I showed that with one school in another thread. They loose as many or more, and if we factored them in in, they look like a public school.

But again, my challenge stands: Show me anything they do differently in instruction.

It isn't in their instruction iteself, but in the discipline they can apply, and the expectations they can hold of their students.

 

[lizzie]

Wouldnt an simpler solution be to just improve public schools? I dont get this liberal obsession with forcing everyone to suffer equally.

It would be nice if it were so simple, but the actual problem isn't with the schools, but the student and family structure, and that is the reason we can't fix the schools. You can't take kids who don't want to learn, and have little parental support at home, place them in the very best school in the country, and make them excel. It's a people and culture problem. Granted, our schools have slacked off in the disclipinary department, and the schools are run more like day care than educational institutions these days, but that is not the primary issue.

 

[Guy Incognito]

The constitution is a written set of rules. These written rules were agreed to by the states that established the constitution between themselves. Presumably, the state ratifying conventions understood what it is they were signing onto when they ratified, without the supreme court telling them exactly what the document they were signing on to meant.

Things tend to change over the course of 200 years.

 

[Guy Incognito]

By all means, present some serious study. I'd love to see one.

Why? You never made a serious counter argument.

 

[PirateMk1]

It would be nice if it were so simple, but the actual problem isn't with the schools, but the student and family structure, and that is the reason we can't fix the schools. You can't take kids who don't want to learn, and have little parental support at home, place them in the very best school in the country, and make them excel. It's a people and culture problem. Granted, our schools have slacked off in the disclipinary department, and the schools are run more like day care than educational institutions these days, but that is not the primary issue.

Actually it making people who dont want to be there in the first place go. Let them drop out and suffer their fate. If the parents dont care why should we? In the end its about choices we make.