Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday? (1 Viewer)

[Kandahar]

It astounds me that we still honor this horrible, horrible man with a holiday. He was a greedy, racist murderer. Why not commemorate someone or something worthwhile instead?

 

[The Mark]

It astounds me that we still honor this horrible, horrible man with a holiday. He was a greedy, racist murderer. Why not commemorate someone or something worthwhile instead?

I dunno.

...............

 

[Ned Racine]

It astounds me that we still honor this horrible, horrible man with a holiday. He was a greedy, racist murderer. Why not commemorate someone or something worthwhile instead?

How about a Statue to the First Arawak Indian Female who gave Syphillis to a Spanish sailor .

 

[The_Patriot]

Most of our holidays that honor people, those people were racists, greedy, and murderers. Look at Lincoln and his war that caused over 600k dead that were civilians and soldiers alike. He hated non-whites and he was a lawyer for the railroads. His family got rich off of the transcontinental railroad.

 

[The Mark]

Most of our holidays that honor people, those people were racists, greedy, and murderers. Look at Lincoln and his war that caused over 600k dead that were civilians and soldiers alike. He hated non-whites and he was a lawyer for the railroads. His family got rich off of the transcontinental railroad.

opcorn:

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[OscarB63]

Most of our holidays that honor people, those people were racists, greedy, and murderers. Look at Lincoln and his war that caused over 600k dead that were civilians and soldiers alike. He hated non-whites and he was a lawyer for the railroads. His family got rich off of the transcontinental railroad.

do we even celebrate Lincoln's birthday anymore? I thought they turned that into MLK day.

funny story, back in the day (~20 years ago) Alabama state employees did not get memorial day off as a paid holiday...but they did get "confederate memorial day" off as a paid holiday. discovered that while my mother was working at the state employment office.

 

[Josie]

Most of our holidays that honor people, those people were racists, greedy, and murderers. Look at Lincoln and his war that caused over 600k dead that were civilians and soldiers alike. He hated non-whites and he was a lawyer for the railroads. His family got rich off of the transcontinental railroad.

He hated non-whites? One of his good friends that he allowed into the White House for conversations was Frederick Douglass.....a non-white. Mary Todd's best friend was a black woman.

Why would you say he hated non-whites?

 

[The_Patriot]

do we even celebrate Lincoln's birthday anymore? I thought they turned that into MLK day.

funny story, back in the day (~20 years ago) Alabama state employees did not get memorial day off as a paid holiday...but they did get "confederate memorial day" off as a paid holiday. discovered that while my mother was working at the state employment office.

Yeah we still celebrate Lincoln's birthday on 2/12, but some states have it listed as President's Day.

 

[Goshin]

It astounds me that we still honor this horrible, horrible man with a holiday. He was a greedy, racist murderer. Why not commemorate someone or something worthwhile instead?

There is evidence that Chris Columbus was not such a great guy. He later got arrested for mismanaging a colony put under his governance in an allegedly very harsh manner.

But to paraphrase Captain Malcom Reynolds: "I figure every man got a holiday in his name was one kinda sumbitch or another."

Whatever bad he may have done, he DID discover the Americas and pave the way for the existence of the modern USA.... without which history would be a very different story, and probably not in a good way.

 

[bowerbird]

It astounds me that we still honor this horrible, horrible man with a holiday. He was a greedy, racist murderer. Why not commemorate someone or something worthwhile instead?

Yep! Lets celebrate Captain Cook day instead

After all Cook discovered both Australia AND New Zealand whereas Columbus did not even really discover America.

 

[OscarB63]

He hated non-whites? One of his good friends that he allowed into the White House for conversations was Frederick Douglass.....a non-white. Mary Todd's best friend was a black woman.

Why would you say he hated non-whites?

maybe this had something to do with it? although I would venture that perhaps "hate" is a bit strong.

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.

sounds pretty damned racist to me.

 

[The_Patriot]

He hated non-whites? One of his good friends that he allowed into the White House for conversations was Frederick Douglass.....a non-white. Mary Todd's best friend was a black woman.

Why would you say he hated non-whites?

He ran on a platform of keeping the west white, colonizing all freed blacks back to Africa, made numerous racist remarks, etc...

 

[Josie]

maybe this had something to do with it? although I would venture that perhaps "hate" is a bit strong.



sounds pretty damned racist to me.

And......putting the quote into historical context................

Many white people then believed that blacks were non-human....to be used as property and treated anyway the owner decided. Many white people knew slavery was wrong, but weren't exactly pro-blacks and white being buddy, buddy (this would be Lincoln). There were a few white people that were completely pro-integration.

By today's standards, anything but the last one would be totally unacceptable. Lincoln and the Republicans took the first step toward civil rights for all in the 1860s. Was he completely angelic in his thoughts? Of course not. Was he a good President? You betcha.

 

[Coronado]

Columbus Day is probably more about giving the Italians a day to have a parade and get drunk than anything else.

 

[The_Patriot]

And......putting the quote into historical context................

Many white people then believed that blacks were non-human....to be used as property and treated anyway the owner decided. Many white people knew slavery was wrong, but weren't exactly pro-blacks and white being buddy, buddy (this would be Lincoln). There were a few white people that were completely pro-integration.

By today's standards, anything but the last one would be totally unacceptable. Lincoln and the Republicans took the first step toward civil rights for all in the 1860s. Was he completely angelic in his thoughts? Of course not. Was he a good President? You betcha.

Here's a good speech by Lincoln on colonization.

An article about Lincoln and Colonization.

How many of those presidents actually talked to Congress about colonization?

 

[soccerboy22]

Columbus Day is probably more about giving the Italians a day to have a parade and get drunk than anything else.

Meh the Irish do it better. At least in Boston they do.

 

[Josie]

Again, where is the evidence that Lincoln HATED non-whites. He believed that it was best for the races to be separate. How does that equal "hate" to you? He wanted slavery to end because it was evil. He thought treating human beings like the Southern plantation owners were was evil. I fail to see the "hate".

If he hated non-whites, he wouldn't have worked to free the slaves and start the ball rolling with civil rights.

 

[Coronado]

Meh the Irish do it better. At least in Boston they do.

Practice makes perfect! :beer:

 

[The_Patriot]

Again, where is the evidence that Lincoln HATED non-whites. He believed that it was best for the races to be separate. How does that equal "hate" to you? He wanted slavery to end because it was evil. He thought treating human beings like the Southern plantation owners were was evil. I fail to see the "hate".

If he hated non-whites, he wouldn't have worked to free the slaves and start the ball rolling with civil rights.

Except he didn't start the ball rolling. He was dead before the 14th Amendment was even written. His policies set down in 1864 on the western frontier set up the entire genocide of the Plains Indians. But hey if he really liked non-whites he wouldn't have been a member of the American Colonization Society and helped pass the Illinois Constitutional Amendment that prohibited blacks from living there now would he?

EDIT: I'll even add in that Lincoln publicly blamed blacks for the Civil War and used them as a scapegoat. I guess he must have really liked them to do that right?

 

[Andalublue]

Yep! Lets celebrate Captain Cook day instead

After all Cook discovered both Australia AND New Zealand whereas Columbus did not even really discover America.

Much as it pains me to recognise it, as Captain Cook and I are both proud Yorkshiremen, Abel Tasman got there over a century earlier. Cook did not discover Australia, NZ and Tasmania any more than Columbus discovered America, as none of them were ever lost. They were just the first Europeans to manage to reach said lands. Big deal.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

If it weren't for greedy, racist sons of bitches, this country wouldn't exist. None of us Americans would exist.

Think about that next time you want to complain that we're glorifying bad men.

 

[1069]

It astounds me that we still honor this horrible, horrible man with a holiday. He was a greedy, racist murderer. Why not commemorate someone or something worthwhile instead?

Absolutely agree. I've always refused to acknowledge his "day" in any way.

 

[1069]

If it weren't for greedy, racist sons of bitches, this country wouldn't exist. None of us Americans would exist.

Think about that next time you want to complain that we're glorifying bad men.

I think about it all the time.
It makes me want to leave the US.
But just about every industrialized nation was founded on the blood and sweat of either slaves, indigenous peoples, or peasants, so where could I go that would be different.
That doesn't mean we should glorify the more reprehensible aspects of our heritage, though. Acknowledge, yes. Make amends for, possibly.
"Celebrate"...? No.

 

[Kandahar]

If it weren't for greedy, racist sons of bitches, this country wouldn't exist. None of us Americans would exist.

Think about that next time you want to complain that we're glorifying bad men.

Christopher Columbus never even landed in this country. He landed in Cuba, the Bahamas, and Hispaniola. The first European to land in North America (excluding the Vikings) was John Cabot, in 1497. In any case, they were all interchangeable. If Columbus hadn't landed in the West Indies, some other European explorer certainly would have within the next decade.

There were people who were much more important to the United States than Christopher Columbus. We could have Einstein Day or Tesla Day instead.

 

[winston53660]

I think we should have Adolphus Bush day!!!