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Do Not Resuscitate Orders


Hi Maggie - from my perspective, the representative was in effect asking your mom the question through you - if she didn't know that you have power of attorney and other authority over your mom's care, she would be negligent asking you and not asking her and getting the answer from her.

I never had power of attorney for my mom, but here and with my mom's condition, every healthcare and homecare representative I ever came into contact with took my word as the final word for any medical or personal treatment or non-treatment. Even in hospitals, whatever I said was taken as the final word. Every time my mom was in hospital, they had me fill out a form related to the extent to which the hospital would resuscitate her in various scenarios. The day my mom died, in hospital, the doctor told me how she was and her chances of surviving and indicated that if she started to die they could resuscitate her but it could cause her great discomfort, broken bones, etc. and I simply told the doctor that she had lived a long life and at 96 I didn't want her to be brutalized in order to keep her alive a few minutes/hours/days longer and we should just let her pass in peace - and she did, overnight, and I've never regretted how it ended.

Perhaps in the US things would be much different with all the lawsuits filed against hospitals and healthcare professionals, but I had a fairly lengthy history with the hospital for my dad and then my mom so it was never a problem and they knew they could trust me.
 

If I were interviewing a patient, and did not know that they had dementia, then I would certainly ask the patient about DNR orders. If it were obvious that she had dementia, I would not ask directly, but would ask in a roundabout way. It is always the patient's wishes which take precedence in health care decisions, unless they are obviously unable to make those choices.
 
I agree with what you said, but you and me originally and many others seem to be missing a KEY point. The health care professional was not interviewing a patient, it was the opposite. The patient through and with her daughter were interviewing a caregiving agency. With that in mind, that question is unnecessary to be asked unless and until an enrollment with that agency/facility is actually being initiated. At which time, things like the power of atty and any known DNRs would be presented and discussed appropriately with a non-salesperson, one who actually does the work and knows the rules and how better to handle situations as described.
 


Mom executed her Health Care Power of Attorney twenty years ago. She made her wishes known. She made the sensible decisions MOST of us would make re when to keep trying and when to stop. So there it is...clear as day. It stayed in my file cabinet for years. Two years ago, I began giving them out to all of her doctors and took over her medical decisions at that time, with her blessing. I went to most of her doctor visits with her and had instructions on file that any medication changes were to be discussed with her (of course), but absolutely HAD to be discussed with me in a brief phone call from a nurse or doctor. This because she was very confused and didn't remember what doctors said.

How did I know to do that? When she began missing appointments, when I found her pillbox with pills not taken, and, finally, when she cut up eight $100 bills and threw them in the garbage...having no recollection at all that she'd done so.

In our discussions throughout the years, she's told me, "Maggie, if I'm going to die, I don't want to know." I'll honor that wish. In the case of her most serious brush with death (about three/four weeks ago), I never told her how sick she was . . . why would I do that? . . . And never told her I was considering enrolling her into the hospice program . . . why would I do that either?

There are decisions we simply MUST be willing to make for our loved ones . . . like when is it time to "go home." If I asked my mother right now if she wanted a DNR, I'm not sure what she'd say; but ten years ago, she gave me her full vote of confidence that whatever I thought was best was what she wanted. *shrug*

***********

I really appreciate all the great comments on this thread. I walked outside with the lady and told her I had what she'd asked about in place and also the formal HCPOA that is recognized by doctors and hospitals. (The special one is what's needed for 911 calls.) Had mom been "her old self" ("young self" ha!) she might have questioned what the representative asked. As it was? I don't think she had a clue what she was talking about. But it surprised me that her FIRST question wasn't, "Do you have her healthcare power of attorney?" and next, "Do you have instructions for paramedics in case our caregiver has to call 911?" (I think that would have been a better way to handle it.

For those who don't know, the paramedic DNR requires a doctor's signature. She's been going to the same doctor for 12 years or so.

My prayers for my mom include her going to sleep and not waking up. If I am home, I will wait a considerable amount of time before I even call 911. Usually? It's not "death" we fear -- it's the journey. I hope and pray hers is a pleasant one. She's 86 years old, can barely walk, has congestive heart failure. When her little body gives up, I don't intend to use mechanical means to interrupt her journey. One cannot put that responsibility onto a caregiver who is a complete stranger.

I love my mom with all my heart. She gave me life after all. And she trusts me to the right thing by her until the end. I will.

Thank you all.
 
Dunno if this has been asked yet or not, but can a DNR be put in place if the patient is not of sound mind? I thought an affidavit had to be signed, and the person be of sound mind before they could make such a strong decision.
 

Though I disagree, I recognize that it's a difficult issue and one without a clear answer. It's obvious that you've thought about it and are guided by what you think is best under the circumstances. I don't want to derail Maggie's thread, so I'll leave it at that
 
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