DO I support racism?[W:433]

[Ikari]

Re: DO I support racism?

This question is being asked for an concrete argument relating to another thread.

Suppose someone sets up an organization that advocates for a constitutional amendment that allows any and all businesses to refuse service to people based on their race.

Does this scenario alone mean I support racism?

No. But if you created said establishment, or supported the establishment then yes.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: DO I support racism?

I content it is wrong, not aggressive. You are using the wrong word.

Actively working to disenfranchise a group is aggression. Clearly.

Fraud is not a value term. It has to do with misleading people financially. Stores don't advertise with "Buy One Get One Fraud."

Do you contend there is real value in "black free shopping" or do you accept that such service is a fraud. You can either claim value exists, or accept that it is fraud.

 

[Master PO]

Re: DO I support racism?

I'm glad I don't live in a world where blacks (or any other race) are considered second class citizens. Sad world it was then. There may still be some assholes who are undeniable bigots, but they're dying off. My husband (26 years older than I) lived in a world (when he was in the service in the south), when a black man couldn't look a white girl in the eye . . . when he had to step off the sidewalk if whites were walking abreast. What a crock of ****.

Anyone who doesn't support The Civil Rights Act is a fool. Although I understand that lily-whites have given up some of our rights? There couldn't have been a better cause.

Period.

call me a fool!

if we are talking about government discrimination, then i am with you.

if we are talking about people who own business , i against you.

government has no authority to act against a citizen, who has not violated the rights of another, or threaten the public health and saftey.

rights must be upheld....even though we dont like how a person may exercise them.

 

[Bigfoot 88]

Re: DO I support racism?

Actively working to disenfranchise a group is aggression. Clearly.

Get back to me when it involves coercion.

Do you contend there is real value in "black free shopping" or do you accept that such service is a fraud. You can either claim value exists, or accept that it is fraud.

False choice, since that is the incorrect application of the word fraud.

You aren't trapping me, you are making yourself look ignorant.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: DO I support racism?

call me a fool!

if we are talking about government discrimination, then i am with you.

if we are talking about people who own business , i against you.

government has no authority to act against a citizen, who has not violated the rights of another, or threaten the public health and saftey.

rights must be upheld....even though we dont like how a person may exercise them.

That mindset isn't necessarily wrong. In fact, my first post in this thread said that people who feels as you do are not necessarily racist.

 

[Gardener]

Re: DO I support racism?

call me a fool!

.

Yet Again?!

 

[Gipper]

Re: DO I support racism?

Where is the key for that map? And the segregation there is economic, not racial. There are some parallels but it's certainly not the same thing.

So if a kid comes into my store to buy a can of Coke for a dollar and only has 80 cents, I have to give it to him?That's economic discrimination otherwise.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: DO I support racism?

Get back to me when it involves coercion.

So, now you're equating coercion and aggression? It's nice to see you've accepted that actively working to disenfranchise a group is -in fact- aggression.

False choice, since that is the incorrect application of the word fraud.

Bull****. Either a service provides real value or it is a fraud.

You aren't trapping me, you are making yourself look ignorant.

Hey, if you think "black free shopping" provides real value, then you honestly don't believe it's fraud. I can accept that. If you don't think it provides real value, then you do believe it is fraud.

 

[Master PO]

Re: DO I support racism?

That mindset isn't necessarily wrong. In fact, my first post in this thread said that people who feels as you do are not necessarily racist.

correct i am not racist, ..but when it comes to rights..nothing comes before that.

 

[RiverDad]

Re: DO I support racism?

Where is the key for that map?

And the segregation there is economic, not racial. There are some parallels but it's certainly not the same thing.

It's close enough for our purposes. We identify a harm - NY has the most racially segregated schools in the nation. We identify a second harm - black people don't get to have rich white people as friends. Rich white people move away from them, just like a shopowner might refuse them service. This hurts their feelings. See, the parallels just keep building.

So why shouldn't government step in to fix these problems by denying you the right to buy a house where ever you please. We well know that plenty of white people move away from black people, some move to certain sections of a city, others move out to liberal granola commune territory, others move to frozen ski villages, etc. Why should people have the freedom to move away from black people? Isn't that racism? We've already established that Totalitarian Liberalism can be used to squash people's freedom of association in the name of fighting racism, so why stop there, why not stop free choice in where you wish to live because it's for the same DAMN CAUSE.

 

[Ray410]

Re: DO I support racism?

"........and btw, slaves were seen as 3/5 of a person in regards to census. This was done by the smuggling, rapist, slaveowning Patriots who founded this country. Hence the 3/5 compromise. What the **** else are you getting at? That I said blacks instead of slaves? That they didn't even have 3/5 of the rights that a non-slave would have? That this country is founded on slavery and the man who wrote the declaration of independence raped his slaves and then sold his own children off to the highest bidder?

Absolute nonsense. Slaves were industry specific forced workers in the American tobacco and cotton industries until whites fought a civil war to gain their freedom.

Look at the reality of history: Over 12 million slaves were brought to the new world, primarily by Portugal, Spain and England, but the United States only received 5% of those 12 million imported Slaves, 600,000 total. Most of the 12 million went to South America and the Caribbean.

Certainly to those 600,000 slaves, it was of utmost historical note, but when compared to 7 million Jews, men, women and children, sent to die in the Nazi gas chambers, perhaps the comparatively small number of slaves brought to America can be placed in a little better perspective in history. Perhaps best seen as equal in number to the whites that died in the Civil War to free them.

It has become fashionable, actually required in Liberalville, to pretend that the evil Americans were the hub of the slave trading and employing nations, but that is simply not true. America was only a very small part of the slave trade. Again, only 5% of the 12 million total ever arrived here and that was specifically to work in Southern industries.

 

[Master PO]

Re: DO I support racism?

Yet Again?!

sorry, but if you dont like me supporting people rights, against the aggression of people who want to control other people.....then you make me sad!

 

[Bigfoot 88]

Re: DO I support racism?

So, now you're equating coercion and aggression? It's nice to see that you've accepted that actively working to disenfranchise a group is aggression.

No, I am necessitating coercion as a component of aggression.

Bull****. Either a service provides real value or it is a fraud.

Value is subjective. Deception is not. Fraud describes deception, not value.

I find no value in pork brains. Selling them is not fraud.

 

[sangha]

Re: DO I support racism?

Doctors and hospitals don't get to turn away patients because they don't want to fix them up because they're Muslim or Indian or black or Asian or whatever...

Being declined life saving medical treatment because you're Asian is a long way from not wanting to serve someone a bowl of ice cream, just my opinion.

The issue of life-saving is one that protects individuals from harm. The basis for bans of racism is protecting society from harm

 

[ecofarm]

Re: DO I support racism?

No, I am necessitating coercion as a component of aggression.

Aggression is possible without coercion. You're floundering.

Value is subjective. Deception is not. Fraud describes deception, not value.

I find no value in pork brains. Selling them is not fraud.

But there is value in pork brains. You're just being ignorant.

Are you claiming there is value in "black free shopping"? If there is no value, then the business is providing a service with no real value - that's fraud.

 

[sangha]

Re: DO I support racism?

Then what are the fines and such for?

for people who make bad choices (of a specific type)

 

[Redress]

Re: DO I support racism?

This question is being asked for an concrete argument relating to another thread.

Suppose someone sets up an organization that advocates for a constitutional amendment that allows any and all businesses to refuse service to people based on their race.

Does this scenario alone mean I support racism?

I define racism as a belief in racial superiority/inferiority. By that definition, no.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: DO I support racism?

It's close enough for our purposes. We identify a harm - NY has the most racially segregated schools in the nation. We identify a second harm - black people don't get to have rich white people as friends. Rich white people move away from them, just like a shopowner might refuse them service. This hurts their feelings. See, the parallels just keep building.

So why shouldn't government step in to fix these problems by denying you the right to buy a house where ever you please. We well know that plenty of white people move away from black people, some move to certain sections of a city, others move out to liberal granola commune territory, others move to frozen ski villages, etc. Why should people have the freedom to move away from black people? Isn't that racism? We've already established that Totalitarian Liberalism can be used to squash people's freedom of association in the name of fighting racism, so why stop there, why not stop free choice in where you wish to live because it's for the same DAMN CAUSE.

Fair Housing takes care of that little problem quite well. The Federal government even has shoppers trying to find Realtors who break the laws. They were broken with impunity 50 years ago. If you were Jewish, you were steered to Jewish synagogue communities. Realtors who worked with Blacks? You were steered to the black neighborhoods. Realtors who sold to these people in the wrong (right) neighborhoods were blackballed and run out of town. Do that now? You're liable to end up with a $200,000 fine and a jail term as a Realtor. Refuse to sell your home to a black man? You're going to be in such deep **** you'll wish you were dead. The government will bankrupt you. Homeowner or Realtor.

One black family whose home I sold told me when I visited them that they intended to take down all the black art in their family room. Their friends had told them that if people knew black people lived in the house? They'd never sell it. I told them if they removed the artwork, I would cancel their listing. They didn't. It sold first day on market.

When this same family went to look at homes? He was an officer in the army. He wore his dress uniform and she was dressed as if to a cocktail party. I asked them why they dressed so formally -- "We don't want the neighbors to hate us." Even today. Even today.

That's damned sad.

 

[Thom Paine]

Re: DO I support racism?

I remember blacks being 3/5 of a person. You remember that part of US History? (insert dogma about "genius" founding fathers here LoL)

Should we assume you'd like a return of this policy as well? Or does it belong in the dustbin of history (something the Civil Rights Act was meant to help accomplish)?

In order to better respond, (This is sorta' off topic but) how old are you to recall that?

 

[sangha]

Re: DO I support racism?

Anyone can give any reason they want.

If a landscaper turns down a job in x neighborhood, it may be because he doesn't want to work next door to his old girlfriend's mother's house. But if the person who wanted to hire him happened to be black or Indian, would we assume his reasons are racist because of that?

This is why we have courts of law.

 

[sangha]

Re: DO I support racism?

So they have a right to not serve the public?

They do

 

[Zinthaniel]

Re: DO I support racism?

One black family whose home I sold told me when I visited them that they intended to take down all the black art in their family room. Their friends had told them that if people knew black people lived in the house? They'd never sell it. I told them if they removed the artwork, I would cancel their listing. They didn't. It sold first day on market.

When this same family went to look at homes? He was an officer in the army. He wore his dress uniform and she was dressed as if to a cocktail party. I asked them why they dressed so formally -- "We don't want the neighbors to hate us." Even today. Even today.

That's damned sad.

wow, that is sad.

 

[sangha]

Re: DO I support racism?

He is being sangha, that's all. Not an insult... he just likes to make some little point that is seemingly irrelevant and sticks with it.

He is saying that a business owner is not forced because they can choose to not be a business owner if they do not like the laws...

That really isn't relevant because once you are a business owner you ARE forced to follow the laws or face the consequences.........

It is really relevant. It's just like how people do not need to insure their auto, unless they choose to operate it on public roads.

 

[RiverDad]

Re: DO I support racism?

Fair Housing takes care of that little problem quite well.

Well, that's a dodge in my opinion. The problem of racial segregation is not fixed. Now it's time to do as we did with non-discrimination in business. If an employer is forced to work alongside an employee that he doesn't want to employ or a shopkeeper has to bake a cake for someone he doesn't want to do business with, on what basis can we exempt homeowners from this "solution approach" where the ends justify the means and allow them to continue to express their racism by way of housing choices? Isn't it about time that the government forced people to live where the government says they must live? After all, there is no issue of human rights involved, we've killed and buried those.

When this same family went to look at homes? He was an officer in the army. He wore his dress uniform and she was dressed as if to a cocktail party. I asked them why they dressed so formally -- "We don't want the neighbors to hate us." Even today. Even today.

That's damned sad.

Stereotype persist for a reason, so what is sad here, that the neighbors are aware of reality or that this man belongs to a group who has earned a bad reputation?

 

[Zinthaniel]

Re: DO I support racism?

some people need to go back to stormfront, and stay there.