Dislike of America increases Worldwide ~ polls

[Deegan]

:doh that coming from the guy who's country brought us such luminary figures as George W Bush, Jay Leno, Justin Timberlake and Carrot Top.


Yes Carrot Top.

That old american tradition of being a twat and having people laugh at you.

Thankyou America for being so utterly ridiculous!

Two words, Mr. Bean.:rofl

 

[MSgt]

LOL. I jumped at the stupid statement. I didn't realize it was a joke until you made mention of it. It's been eons since I seen Animal House.

Funny how you point me out but not Traj, who made the same assumption. It's not cause you're partisan now, is it? Or did you want to get back at me for making you look like a fool? :2wave:

Yeah, I'm concerned about a Canadian trying desperately to make me look like a fool. Like in that thread, you are again confused about what was written and chose to shoot your mouth off.

What the hell is Partisan about singling out the individual that has special needs for understanding? Trajan knew I was joking. You , however, needed special attention. Like the other thread where you put your foot in your mouth over obtuse simpleton tactics, you have done it again here.

It's funny how you keep trying, but you only keep achieving in making yourself look simple and foolish.

 

[MSgt]

:doh that coming from the guy who's country brought us such luminary figures as George W Bush, Jay Leno, Justin Timberlake and Carrot Top.


Yes Carrot Top.

That old american tradition of being a twat and having people laugh at you.

Thankyou America for being so utterly ridiculous!

At least we know where to off load our garbage. David Hasselhoff still rockin' the crowds over there?

You started it, I'll play your game....

Europe is selfish and slothful. Old Europe has devoured American lives and consumed our wealth - and now that we are engaged in the Middle East and not expending our blood and sweat for their lands, they can't understand it nor do they approve. This is always the case with the "Global Left." The regressive societies of the Middle East are sick—and contagious— with hatred, jealousy, and congenital disrepair. Whenever the United States is forced to engage cultures whose glory days are behind them, we win, but we often pay a bitter price. The few countries that choose to offer up their military to stand against the ruthlessness of the world beside us are appreciated, but the "larger" countries are selfish. They stay within their borders and only serve to benefit from the security America provides them. If they do anything, it is the bare minimum. We are not the only ones on this planet that should be looking out for the little people, yet everyone expects us to do it all and to do it perfectly. Many of the little people around the globe are stranded in misery, because of what European colonies have done to them. Where's their "high and mighty" angle to take responsibility for this as they point out America's mistakes in trying to fix their trash? India = British colonies...South Africa = British colonies...Somalia = French colonies...Vietnam = French presence...Sudan = British occupation…. Middle East = British and French occupations. These are just six examples. There are many others. We should not be under any illusions and we should choose to see things for what they are. There is a lot of ugliness left in the wake of European occupations and I don’t see a lot of Europe's helping hand.

France and Germany.......they're two of my favorite museums. And what's not to like about two grotesquely hypocritical societies who are, between them, responsible for the worst savagery in and beyond Europe over the past several centuries? The next time the continent that perfected genocide and ethnic cleansing plays the moral superiority card, we should remind them that no German soldier ever liberated anybody--and the most notable achievement of the French military in the past century and a half has been the slaughter of unarmed black Africans. Old Europe--France and Germany--is just the Middle East-lite.

Countries like France owe their securities to America - not their governments. We keep the wolves at bay all around the world and that is another reason Islamic terrorism target us. Europe’s answer to terrorism….."appeasement."

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements. Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades…inhuman, suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities. Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though they had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, Europeans debated and debated, and were still debating when American soldiers and Marines went halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do their work for them. Appeasement has generated a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam’s torture and murder machinery and, motivated by self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to President Bush….even after it was uncovered that the loudest critics of our action in Iraq made illicit tens of billions in the corrupt U.N. oil-for-food program. Recently, the most grotesque form of this appeasement was Germany’s proposal for a Muslim holiday in a foolish attempt to spare the European people from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.

What else has to happen before the European public and it’s political leadership get it? There is a crusade that has been underway for half a century consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon western civilization’s utter destruction. We are a threat to Islamic leadership everywhere that uses their form of the Islamic faith to oppress it’s subjects. This enemy cannot be tamed by “tolerance and accommodations”, but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness. They have been at war with the free world for decades and America, for it’s protection of European oil in the Middle East and it’s protection of Jews in Israel, has been their target. The Middle East represents the next clean up job Americans will do for the European dismissals of growing tyranny...only this time, we got involved before Europe got a chance to ask for help.

America always has done best on frontiers, from our own West through technological frontiers to our pioneering of the society of the future, in which gender, racial, and religious equality increasingly prevail (to the horror of our enemies). But people need to realize that there is not a bright, magical and immediate solution for the darkest region on earth. The Middle East will remain a strategic basket case beyond our lifetimes. We will need to remain engaged, but we must be careful not to be consumed. If you are looking for the hope of an immediate victory, look elsewhere.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence as a contrast to us "arrogant Americans" as the world champions of "tolerance". Why? Because they are so moral? I think not. They speak of the tragedy and oppression everywhere else in the world besides Iraq, yet I don't see them deploying to do anything about it. No, the truth is that Europe would rather not get involved with things that Americans will burden themselves with doing for them. Europe would rather discuss ways of reducing their work weeks, paid vacations and listen to pastor’s preach about the need to "reach out to terrorists and to understand and forgive them." Europe is like an old woman that frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor’s house. She dare not call the police for fear of getting involved.

Here is another word that can be substituted for appeasement……."cowardice." Europe's hypocrisy is immeasurable. The grandchildren of those who defended Stalin are mortified that Saddam Hussein will stand trial by insisting that "Iraq was a mistake." By taking such irresponsible voices seriously, we grant our critics a strength they otherwise lack and simply help them keep their lies alive.

 

[DeeJayH]

At least we know where to off load our garbage. David Hasselhoff still rockin' the crowds over there?

You started it, I'll play your game....

Europe is selfish and slothful. Old Europe has devoured American lives and consumed our wealth - and now that we are engaged in the Middle East and not expending our blood and sweat for their lands, they can't understand it nor do they approve. This is always the case with the "Global Left." The regressive societies of the Middle East are sick—and contagious— with hatred, jealousy, and congenital disrepair. Whenever the United States is forced to engage cultures whose glory days are behind them, we win, but we often pay a bitter price. The few countries that choose to offer up their military to stand against the ruthlessness of the world beside us are appreciated, but the "larger" countries are selfish. They stay within their borders and only serve to benefit from the security America provides them. If they do anything, it is the bare minimum. We are not the only ones on this planet that should be looking out for the little people, yet everyone expects us to do it all and to do it perfectly. Many of the little people around the globe are stranded in misery, because of what European colonies have done to them. Where's their "high and mighty" angle to take responsibility for this as they point out America's mistakes in trying to fix their trash? India = British colonies...South Africa = British colonies...Somalia = French colonies...Vietnam = French presence...Sudan = British occupation…. Middle East = British and French occupations. These are just six examples. There are many others. We should not be under any illusions and we should choose to see things for what they are. There is a lot of ugliness left in the wake of European occupations and I don’t see a lot of Europe's helping hand.

France and Germany.......they're two of my favorite museums. And what's not to like about two grotesquely hypocritical societies who are, between them, responsible for the worst savagery in and beyond Europe over the past several centuries? The next time the continent that perfected genocide and ethnic cleansing plays the moral superiority card, we should remind them that no German soldier ever liberated anybody--and the most notable achievement of the French military in the past century and a half has been the slaughter of unarmed black Africans. Old Europe--France and Germany--is just the Middle East-lite.

Countries like France owe their securities to America - not their governments. We keep the wolves at bay all around the world and that is another reason Islamic terrorism target us. Europe’s answer to terrorism….."appeasement."

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements. Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades…inhuman, suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities. Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though they had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, Europeans debated and debated, and were still debating when American soldiers and Marines went halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do their work for them. Appeasement has generated a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam’s torture and murder machinery and, motivated by self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to President Bush….even after it was uncovered that the loudest critics of our action in Iraq made illicit tens of billions in the corrupt U.N. oil-for-food program. Recently, the most grotesque form of this appeasement was Germany’s proposal for a Muslim holiday in a foolish attempt to spare the European people from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.

What else has to happen before the European public and it’s political leadership get it? There is a crusade that has been underway for half a century consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon western civilization’s utter destruction. We are a threat to Islamic leadership everywhere that uses their form of the Islamic faith to oppress it’s subjects. This enemy cannot be tamed by “tolerance and accommodations”, but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness. They have been at war with the free world for decades and America, for it’s protection of European oil in the Middle East and it’s protection of Jews in Israel, has been their target. The Middle East represents the next clean up job Americans will do for the European dismissals of growing tyranny...only this time, we got involved before Europe got a chance to ask for help.

America always has done best on frontiers, from our own West through technological frontiers to our pioneering of the society of the future, in which gender, racial, and religious equality increasingly prevail (to the horror of our enemies). But people need to realize that there is not a bright, magical and immediate solution for the darkest region on earth. The Middle East will remain a strategic basket case beyond our lifetimes. We will need to remain engaged, but we must be careful not to be consumed. If you are looking for the hope of an immediate victory, look elsewhere.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence as a contrast to us "arrogant Americans" as the world champions of "tolerance". Why? Because they are so moral? I think not. They speak of the tragedy and oppression everywhere else in the world besides Iraq, yet I don't see them deploying to do anything about it. No, the truth is that Europe would rather not get involved with things that Americans will burden themselves with doing for them. Europe would rather discuss ways of reducing their work weeks, paid vacations and listen to pastor’s preach about the need to "reach out to terrorists and to understand and forgive them." Europe is like an old woman that frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor’s house. She dare not call the police for fear of getting involved.

Here is another word that can be substituted for appeasement……."cowardice." Europe's hypocrisy is immeasurable. The grandchildren of those who defended Stalin are mortified that Saddam Hussein will stand trial by insisting that "Iraq was a mistake." By taking such irresponsible voices seriously, we grant our critics a strength they otherwise lack and simply help them keep their lies alive.

:applaud
spot on :smile:

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

At least we know where to off load our garbage. David Hasselhoff still rockin' the crowds over there?

You started it, I'll play your game....

Europe is selfish and slothful. Old Europe has devoured American lives and consumed our wealth - and now that we are engaged in the Middle East and not expending our blood and sweat for their lands, they can't understand it nor do they approve. This is always the case with the "Global Left." The regressive societies of the Middle East are sick—and contagious— with hatred, jealousy, and congenital disrepair. Whenever the United States is forced to engage cultures whose glory days are behind them, we win, but we often pay a bitter price. The few countries that choose to offer up their military to stand against the ruthlessness of the world beside us are appreciated, but the "larger" countries are selfish. They stay within their borders and only serve to benefit from the security America provides them. If they do anything, it is the bare minimum. We are not the only ones on this planet that should be looking out for the little people, yet everyone expects us to do it all and to do it perfectly. Many of the little people around the globe are stranded in misery, because of what European colonies have done to them. Where's their "high and mighty" angle to take responsibility for this as they point out America's mistakes in trying to fix their trash? India = British colonies...South Africa = British colonies...Somalia = French colonies...Vietnam = French presence...Sudan = British occupation…. Middle East = British and French occupations. These are just six examples. There are many others. We should not be under any illusions and we should choose to see things for what they are. There is a lot of ugliness left in the wake of European occupations and I don’t see a lot of Europe's helping hand.

France and Germany.......they're two of my favorite museums. And what's not to like about two grotesquely hypocritical societies who are, between them, responsible for the worst savagery in and beyond Europe over the past several centuries? The next time the continent that perfected genocide and ethnic cleansing plays the moral superiority card, we should remind them that no German soldier ever liberated anybody--and the most notable achievement of the French military in the past century and a half has been the slaughter of unarmed black Africans. Old Europe--France and Germany--is just the Middle East-lite.

Countries like France owe their securities to America - not their governments. We keep the wolves at bay all around the world and that is another reason Islamic terrorism target us. Europe’s answer to terrorism….."appeasement."

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements. Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades…inhuman, suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities. Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though they had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, Europeans debated and debated, and were still debating when American soldiers and Marines went halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do their work for them. Appeasement has generated a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam’s torture and murder machinery and, motivated by self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to President Bush….even after it was uncovered that the loudest critics of our action in Iraq made illicit tens of billions in the corrupt U.N. oil-for-food program. Recently, the most grotesque form of this appeasement was Germany’s proposal for a Muslim holiday in a foolish attempt to spare the European people from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.

What else has to happen before the European public and it’s political leadership get it? There is a crusade that has been underway for half a century consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon western civilization’s utter destruction. We are a threat to Islamic leadership everywhere that uses their form of the Islamic faith to oppress it’s subjects. This enemy cannot be tamed by “tolerance and accommodations”, but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness. They have been at war with the free world for decades and America, for it’s protection of European oil in the Middle East and it’s protection of Jews in Israel, has been their target. The Middle East represents the next clean up job Americans will do for the European dismissals of growing tyranny...only this time, we got involved before Europe got a chance to ask for help.

America always has done best on frontiers, from our own West through technological frontiers to our pioneering of the society of the future, in which gender, racial, and religious equality increasingly prevail (to the horror of our enemies). But people need to realize that there is not a bright, magical and immediate solution for the darkest region on earth. The Middle East will remain a strategic basket case beyond our lifetimes. We will need to remain engaged, but we must be careful not to be consumed. If you are looking for the hope of an immediate victory, look elsewhere.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence as a contrast to us "arrogant Americans" as the world champions of "tolerance". Why? Because they are so moral? I think not. They speak of the tragedy and oppression everywhere else in the world besides Iraq, yet I don't see them deploying to do anything about it. No, the truth is that Europe would rather not get involved with things that Americans will burden themselves with doing for them. Europe would rather discuss ways of reducing their work weeks, paid vacations and listen to pastor’s preach about the need to "reach out to terrorists and to understand and forgive them." Europe is like an old woman that frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor’s house. She dare not call the police for fear of getting involved.

Here is another word that can be substituted for appeasement……."cowardice." Europe's hypocrisy is immeasurable. The grandchildren of those who defended Stalin are mortified that Saddam Hussein will stand trial by insisting that "Iraq was a mistake." By taking such irresponsible voices seriously, we grant our critics a strength they otherwise lack and simply help them keep their lies alive.

Here Here. :clap:

 

[The Real McCoy]

At least we know where to off load our garbage. David Hasselhoff still rockin' the crowds over there?

You started it, I'll play your game....

Europe is selfish and slothful. Old Europe has devoured American lives and consumed our wealth - and now that we are engaged in the Middle East and not expending our blood and sweat for their lands, they can't understand it nor do they approve. This is always the case with the "Global Left." The regressive societies of the Middle East are sick—and contagious— with hatred, jealousy, and congenital disrepair. Whenever the United States is forced to engage cultures whose glory days are behind them, we win, but we often pay a bitter price. The few countries that choose to offer up their military to stand against the ruthlessness of the world beside us are appreciated, but the "larger" countries are selfish. They stay within their borders and only serve to benefit from the security America provides them. If they do anything, it is the bare minimum. We are not the only ones on this planet that should be looking out for the little people, yet everyone expects us to do it all and to do it perfectly. Many of the little people around the globe are stranded in misery, because of what European colonies have done to them. Where's their "high and mighty" angle to take responsibility for this as they point out America's mistakes in trying to fix their trash? India = British colonies...South Africa = British colonies...Somalia = French colonies...Vietnam = French presence...Sudan = British occupation…. Middle East = British and French occupations. These are just six examples. There are many others. We should not be under any illusions and we should choose to see things for what they are. There is a lot of ugliness left in the wake of European occupations and I don’t see a lot of Europe's helping hand.

France and Germany.......they're two of my favorite museums. And what's not to like about two grotesquely hypocritical societies who are, between them, responsible for the worst savagery in and beyond Europe over the past several centuries? The next time the continent that perfected genocide and ethnic cleansing plays the moral superiority card, we should remind them that no German soldier ever liberated anybody--and the most notable achievement of the French military in the past century and a half has been the slaughter of unarmed black Africans. Old Europe--France and Germany--is just the Middle East-lite.

Countries like France owe their securities to America - not their governments. We keep the wolves at bay all around the world and that is another reason Islamic terrorism target us. Europe’s answer to terrorism….."appeasement."

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements. Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades…inhuman, suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities. Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though they had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, Europeans debated and debated, and were still debating when American soldiers and Marines went halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do their work for them. Appeasement has generated a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam’s torture and murder machinery and, motivated by self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to President Bush….even after it was uncovered that the loudest critics of our action in Iraq made illicit tens of billions in the corrupt U.N. oil-for-food program. Recently, the most grotesque form of this appeasement was Germany’s proposal for a Muslim holiday in a foolish attempt to spare the European people from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.

What else has to happen before the European public and it’s political leadership get it? There is a crusade that has been underway for half a century consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon western civilization’s utter destruction. We are a threat to Islamic leadership everywhere that uses their form of the Islamic faith to oppress it’s subjects. This enemy cannot be tamed by “tolerance and accommodations”, but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness. They have been at war with the free world for decades and America, for it’s protection of European oil in the Middle East and it’s protection of Jews in Israel, has been their target. The Middle East represents the next clean up job Americans will do for the European dismissals of growing tyranny...only this time, we got involved before Europe got a chance to ask for help.

America always has done best on frontiers, from our own West through technological frontiers to our pioneering of the society of the future, in which gender, racial, and religious equality increasingly prevail (to the horror of our enemies). But people need to realize that there is not a bright, magical and immediate solution for the darkest region on earth. The Middle East will remain a strategic basket case beyond our lifetimes. We will need to remain engaged, but we must be careful not to be consumed. If you are looking for the hope of an immediate victory, look elsewhere.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence as a contrast to us "arrogant Americans" as the world champions of "tolerance". Why? Because they are so moral? I think not. They speak of the tragedy and oppression everywhere else in the world besides Iraq, yet I don't see them deploying to do anything about it. No, the truth is that Europe would rather not get involved with things that Americans will burden themselves with doing for them. Europe would rather discuss ways of reducing their work weeks, paid vacations and listen to pastor’s preach about the need to "reach out to terrorists and to understand and forgive them." Europe is like an old woman that frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor’s house. She dare not call the police for fear of getting involved.

Here is another word that can be substituted for appeasement……."cowardice." Europe's hypocrisy is immeasurable. The grandchildren of those who defended Stalin are mortified that Saddam Hussein will stand trial by insisting that "Iraq was a mistake." By taking such irresponsible voices seriously, we grant our critics a strength they otherwise lack and simply help them keep their lies alive.

Beautiful. :applaud

 

[Inuyasha]

America shold be more honest in her foreign policy. She should also make sure people who receive our help know where its coming from .

The above statement is closer to the truth than anything. I spend a good part of the year in Europe and it is important to be aware that Americans as a people are not disliked. If anything it is just theopposite. As tourists in most places, we are highly considers we don't complain as much as the Brits, we are not as prone to public scandal as the Germans and we are better tippers than the French and so on. I have never or at least rarely, been poorly treated for being an American. Some Americans here are a little to thin skinned.
and take much of the opposition to American policy too personally.

When you are a major player you are bound to come under very strict scrutiny. I see nothing wrong with others disagreeing with our government's policies, Hell at any given time, 50 percent of Americans are in disagreement with the government on any number of subjects. If our foreign policy works to the disadvantage to another nation they have the right to disagree. Isn't that freedom? Isn't that the one of the ideas that we push? Democracy and freedom for some but not for others is hardly freedom or democracy. One has to practice what we preach or no one will take you seriously.

We have two minority groups in this country as does every county. We have those who blame America for everything and they get a sympathetic ear from many foreign interest groups. We also have the other side of the coin and that is the group who says American can do no wrong and we never make a mistake. Both groups are minorities, both are very vocal and both are very wrong in the majority of their assessments. If you cant handle criticism it is better not to hand it out.

 

[Plain old me]

Dislike of America increases Worldwide

To be honest….not a surprise. Why have people made this decision? I think Deegan essentially said it…

We are that gate keeper, and I thank God for that everyday, the world needs a moderator, and we are that.

Unfortunately I think many people do not see it as moderation, but busy-bodying. I think a lot of negativity towards the US comes from the belief that it interferes in things it should not.

I think Iraq plays into that as well. Many people see it as yet another interfering American War into which the UK was dragged in, with Blair as Bush’s lap dog. They hold the PM to blame for that, but also the President, and by extension the US.

Secondly, I think some sort of jealousy, at least on the part of the UK, is to do with it. The UK, and Western Europe, are places generally fiercely proud of their history and heritage. They were once the most dominant powers in the World, now that mantle has passed to the US – and this too easily transposes into sommit like GySgt’s analogy:

Europe is like an old woman

I think many here see us as the ancient powers of old, worthy of respect, and resent what they see as the upstart USA having what we used to have, and dismissing us as quaint old timers that should be left to retirement.

 

[The Real McCoy]

I think Iraq plays into that as well. Many people see it as yet another interfering American War into which the UK was dragged in, with Blair as Bush’s lap dog. They hold the PM to blame for that, but also the President, and by extension the US.

I think the UK dragged itself in when it arbitrarily created Iraq (and other countries) with almost no regard for natural religious and ethnic divisions.

 

[MSgt]

I think the UK dragged itself in when it arbitrarily created Iraq (and other countries) with almost no regard for natural religious and ethnic divisions.

In so many places around the globe where America has sent troops, the colonies of "Old Europe" have left their marks. Yet, all fingers point to us. I guess European responsibility stopped when the colonies left.

As far as the Middle East...this is a European mess where Americans are sweeping and taking the lumps with very little help from Europe. Of course, they're more than happy to hypocritically point, blame, and mock.

 

[GarzaUK]

In so many places around the globe where America has sent troops, the colonies of "Old Europe" have left their marks. Yet, all fingers point to us. I guess European responsibility stopped when the colonies left.

As far as the Middle East...this is a European mess where Americans are sweeping and taking the lumps with very little help from Europe. Of course, they're more than happy to hypocritically point, blame, and mock.

If Iraq was Europe's mess? Why was Bush so EAGER to clean it up?? On a war on terror, why Iraq?? Saddam was a bad man, but in past America has supported evil men with money and weaponary (including Saddam ironically).

We supposedly invaded Iraq for WMD's yet you neglect to mention that the US not only Europe supplied Iraq with WMD's - yet this is all OUR mess alone. Yet we are hypocritical??? I recall old Rummy having a warm embrace with a leader of a "failing civilisation".
Yes we have all our fingerprints over the ME, especially during Colonial times. But since WW2 America has fingerprints all over ME as well. There is no foreign nation in the world with so many bases in the ME than America. what does that tell you.

You may be claiming to clean up "our mess", but you are doing it solely for your own interests in the ME that you've had for decades.

I mean seriously since WW2, Europe has disagreed with two American wars, Veitnam and Iraq. Yet America throws a hissy fit. :roll:

 

[Bergslagstroll]

GarzaUk is totally right. Europe have staind with USA in most conflict, but that doesn't seem to count for anything. Because the only thing that some americans seem to want is total obedience.

Also it's totally right that USA have beeen all around the world and influence countries. So USA also have a big responsibility for the situation in the world.

Then it comes back to colonies USA has also been a big colonial power the diffrence is that USA could wipe out and/or neutralize the old population. Thankefully European countries couldn't do that in all there colonies.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

GarzaUk is totally right. Europe have staind with USA in most conflict, but that doesn't seem to count for anything. Because the only thing that some americans seem to want is total obedience.

Also it's totally right that USA have beeen all around the world and influence countries. So USA also have a big responsibility for the situation in the world.

Then it comes back to colonies USA has also been a big colonial power the diffrence is that USA could wipe out and/or neutralize the old population. Thankefully European countries couldn't do that in all there colonies.

Do you even know what colonialism is? I mean seriously you're comparing free trade to mercantalism, gimme a break.

 

[JOHNYJ]

I think we shold give the world whatit wants. We should withdraw all american Troops from every country in the world but Afghanistan and Iraq.
We have around 100,000 troops in Germany they could be used n Iraq.
The ones in Kosovo also let the Europeans handle Kosovo,alone.
The next time the europeans see themselves threatened by some tin pot leader like Milosevic. We just tell them to whistle ( we won't becoming )

 

[MSgt]

If Iraq was Europe's mess? Why was Bush so EAGER to clean it up?? On a war on terror, why Iraq?? Saddam was a bad man, but in past America has supported evil men with money and weaponary (including Saddam ironically).

We supposedly invaded Iraq for WMD's yet you neglect to mention that the US not only Europe supplied Iraq with WMD's - yet this is all OUR mess alone. Yet we are hypocritical??? I recall old Rummy having a warm embrace with a leader of a "failing civilisation".
Yes we have all our fingerprints over the ME, especially during Colonial times. But since WW2 America has fingerprints all over ME as well. There is no foreign nation in the world with so many bases in the ME than America. what does that tell you.

You may be claiming to clean up "our mess", but you are doing it solely for your own interests in the ME that you've had for decades.

I mean seriously since WW2, Europe has disagreed with two American wars, Veitnam and Iraq. Yet America throws a hissy fit. :roll:

We have more foreign bases all over the world than anybody else. We have held back would be aggressors and kept the peace and protected our allies in many corners. What does that tell you?

I think you've read enough of my posts to realize that I know all too well about our role in the Middle East and how America benefits from stability. Allow me to summerize briefly....

The diplomats and decision makers of the United States believe, habitually and uncritically, that stability abroad is our most important strategic objectiv. They may insist, with fragile sincerity, that democracy and human rights are our international priorities--although our policymakers do not seem to understand the requirements of the first and refuse to meet the requirement of the second. The United States will go to war over economic threats, as in Desert Storm. At present, we are occupied with a crusade against terrorism, which is as worthy as it is difficult. But the consistent, pervasive goal of Washington's foreign policy is stability. America's finest values are sacrificed to keep bad governments in place, dysfunctional borders intac6t, and opressed human beings well-behaved. In one of the greatest acts of self-betrayal in history, the nation that long was the catalyst of global change and which remains the beneficiary of international upheaval has made stability its diplomatic god.

As you can see, I have no problem looking in the mirror and I serve my country, no matter what the needs and knowing full well what I protect for it's lifestyle (even though there are plenty of Americans who benefit from such actions while they complain daily about "right" and "wrong"). It is the naive American who can't see reality and the idealogue American who live in fantasies and dreams and cries about what is "right" and "wrong" - no matter that they benefit from "necessity" - that choose not to or are unable to accept reality.

With regards to Iraq...we can no longer afford to sit back and maintain the stability of tyrants, dictators, and oppresive regimes. In the Middle East, the social destruction that has gone on under these government types has produced violence through religion that we haven't seen since the 16th century. And their target is our people - and yours.

Why are we so eager to clean up this mess?

Major problems in the MENA Region....

1) Economic doldrums / disaster: Regional unemployment for ages 15-35 = 40%…and growing. ….mostly males….who can’t afford to get married……...

2) The populations within the next 25 years…
Egypt’s population will increase by 38%
Jordan’s by 67%
Syria’s by 58%
Saudi Arabia’s by 94%
Pakistan’s by 69%, and
Israel’s by 39%

3) Decreasing Fresh Water Supplies: MENA region faces precipitous decrease in per capita fresh water supply.

4) No known solutions to these problems, save one = Jihad.

Only democracies have shown agility to deal with such problems. In the absence of answers victims will look for scapegoats. Radical Islamic clerics provide the scapegoat for the problems facing the Arab/Islamic world. "Their problems are the fault of the West, specifically the US." (How many of you out there feed into their blame game?) Either we find a way to support the affected countries in finding their own solutions to these problems or our sons and daughters will be fighting another, protracted fight.

One thing is certain. They will never find alternate paths to change their social, economic, political, and religious forms while being oppressed by dictators, brutal Mullahs, and influenced by terror groups. (This includes Saddam and his distractions of purchasing suicide bombers from Palestine.)

So, why us? Because we have the power to act and our civillians are dying. No matter how you slice it, Iraq was a lot better choice to start than Saudi or Iran.

 

[GarzaUK]

America's finest values are sacrificed to keep bad governments in place, dysfunctional borders intac6t, and opressed human beings well-behaved.

Don't you see... America is acting as the world's judge, jury and executioner. This is no longer about "terrorism" it is about replacing governments the US DOES NOT LIKE. The above statement proves it. No one can stop America if it decides to take out one regime that it does not like or want. Don't you see how dangerous that is? Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Who's next? The fat leftie in South America? The next man in a desert. America will do whatever it likes, when it likes. Is that how the "leader" of the free world meant to act???

With regards to Iraq...we can no longer afford to sit back and maintain the stability of tyrants, dictators, and oppresive regimes. In the Middle East, the social destruction that has gone on under these government types has produced violence through religion that we haven't seen since the 16th century. And their target is our people - and yours.

Only democracies have shown agility to deal with such problems.

One thing is certain. They will never find alternate paths to change their social, economic, political, and religious forms while being oppressed by dictators, brutal Mullahs, and influenced by terror groups. (This includes Saddam and his distractions of purchasing suicide bombers from Palestine.)

Democracy in the ME is far different than democracy in the west. It seems to be in the excitement of war Bush forget this fact.
Name on stable secular Islamic country in the ME - only Turkey (and that is Europe's doing, further more we did it without a single bullet).
Okay lets out it this way, what would happen if all the countries in the ME and North Africa all the way to Pakistan had free democratic elections. YOu will get Radical Islamic government after radical government after radical government. Not only will Islamic fundalmenatalists will have control of the Suez Canal in Eygpt (America and Europe support this brutal dicatator because of that reason), you will have Islamic fundalmentalists in possession of nukes in Pakistan. That is what is so HYPROCRITCAL about the Bush doctrine, America will never allow democracy to spread in the ME unless it is on their OWN TERMS. So how is this freeing the ME, in fact all you are doing is containing the ME.

Iraq was a neo-con social experiment that went awry, the US chose it because unlike many other Arab countries the US had allies their (kurds and for the most part the Shia). And whether you like it or not gunny, the war SHOULD have been cheap because of the black stuff... no not Guinness, the stuff America is addicted to.

I am amazed that a smart man like you gunny (and I mean that) trusts the Bush administration, a admin that is proven liars and recently have been neck deep in scandals.

 

[MSgt]

Don't you see... America is acting as the world's judge, jury and executioner. This is no longer about "terrorism" it is about replacing governments the US DOES NOT LIKE. The above statement proves it. No one can stop America if it decides to take out one regime that it does not like or want. Don't you see how dangerous that is? Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Who's next? The fat leftie in South America? The next man in a desert. America will do whatever it likes, when it likes. Is that how the "leader" of the free world meant to act???

paranoia....cha cha cha.

This would be a problem were it not for us being a democracy. This is the beauty of America being the super power. Every four years a new leader can emerge and none may stay past 8. No one can ever have absolute power.

Today's actions have everything to do with terrorism. From north Africa to southern Europe to the Middle East and to western Asia. 9/11 was a smack in the face to our leaderships that have always sought stable governments (good or bad) for interests. (And not all interests only benefit America. We're just the ones that get dirty.) The governments in the Middle East were stable and it created a breeding ground for Radical Islam.

Democracy in the ME is far different than democracy in the west. It seems to be in the excitement of war Bush forget this fact.
Name on stable secular Islamic country in the ME - only Turkey (and that is Europe's doing, further more we did it without a single bullet).
Okay lets out it this way, what would happen if all the countries in the ME and North Africa all the way to Pakistan had free democratic elections. YOu will get Radical Islamic government after radical government after radical government. Not only will Islamic fundalmenatalists will have control of the Suez Canal in Eygpt (America and Europe support this brutal dicatator because of that reason), you will have Islamic fundalmentalists in possession of nukes in Pakistan. That is what is so HYPROCRITCAL about the Bush doctrine, America will never allow democracy to spread in the ME unless it is on their OWN TERMS. So how is this freeing the ME, in fact all you are doing is containing the ME.

Iraq was a neo-con social experiment that went awry, the US chose it because unlike many other Arab countries the US had allies their (kurds and for the most part the Shia). And whether you like it or not gunny, the war SHOULD have been cheap because of the black stuff... no not Guinness, the stuff America is addicted to.

I am amazed that a smart man like you gunny (and I mean that) trusts the Bush administration, a admin that is proven liars and recently have been neck deep in scandals.

It is impossible to contain the Middle East. Pull out a map and look where Radical Islam has spread.

You confuse my understanding for the bigger picture for trust. Shady is as politicians do. Don't forget that I'm not some ordinary American citizen that hangs on every word. I didn't care about "WMD" in Iraq. Saddam had to go and I believe we stumbled into our destiny with the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. I doubt that he fully understands everything going on. One would have to study history, Islam, Radicalism, terrorist psychology, and warfare. I do not believe that he is knowledgable in these areas, but everything that is occurring suggests that he is listening to the people who have done the study. I also don't care and approve of wire tapping select individuals in our country. I also believe in our current operations in Bosnia, Chad, and Pakistan.

What I do know is he's the first President that is listening to the military and the CIA. Like I have said before...we have been screaming and predicting this future since Reagan. Bush Sr. was the head of the CIA and knew all of this, yet chose to take the easy road, like so many others, of continuing to look the other way for the "stability" that assured oil flow. Our enemy is ugly and it is going to take some ugly action. The war in Afghanistan and Iraq merely brought to surface what was inevitably going to happen.

Have you ever read Samuel P. Huntington's "The Clash of Civilizations?" You should check it out. Here is an excerpt...

http://www.alamut.com/subj/economics/misc/clash.html

 

[teacher]

I see that this swill has been well responded to. Haven't read those posts yet. Want to keep my two cents fresh. So if I repeat folks, my bad.

Doesn't surprise me really, i used to just think it was the American politicians that were ignorant white supremecist neo conservative terrorists and not worthy of the air we breath,

Jet stream flows in your direction chap. Take a deep breath, I just farted.

i have however decided to turn that into a blatant dislike of everything American,

the shitty sitcoms that i get in the UK everyday. ER ****, Friends ****!, Medium ****, The West Wing ****, The OC ****, One tree Hill ****, the crappy hollywood movies that infest the cinemas of my country with their big explosions and guns, pyrotechnic displays and sheer unimagination, the outragously crappy music that travels through the mainstream into Britain,

And yet you wankers eat them up like Pez. Typical whining canker swill. Instead of complaining how about you all come up with something of your own. Nothing good has come from your side of the pond since Monty Python. Though the arrest of Hugh Grant was midly ammusing.

gawd, i dunno what they spray the fields with over there but Jessica Simpson???? Please kill this whore of satan!

Well, you have a point there. Have you seen the clip where Jessica is asking Nick if Tuna is fish or meat because they call it chicken of the sea?

and Britney MKUltra Spears, encouraging the next generations of sluts to hit me baby one more time, oh and is there any more blatant brainwashing than the gansta rap scene imported worldwide from America, shoot niggaz hustle crack and smack bitches, if you want 50's riches, man 50 cent what an uniteresting heathen, why don't these americans learn to speak before they make music for the kids in my country!

Speaking of speaking do us all a favor and hit spell check. It will also help out with your capotalizing problem. It might just tend to make your posts less self smacking.
They are making it for the kids in my country. We have lots of black people here. What is your excuse? Maybe we should send Ted Nugent over there to hunt you down with a compound bow. Stormtrooping baby.

If thats all the land of the free has to offer then give me oppression any day of the week!

Didn't Winston Churchill say the same thing?

The reason Europe is approved of worldwide IMO is the sheer diversity of culture it incorporates,

Over there you have to cross a border. In this nation you just have to walk a few blocks to go from little Italy to Chinatown. I lived in Germany for two years. I didn't see much diversity. Unless you call Bratwust and Pomme Frits diverce from Currywurst and Pomme Frits. In my town I can get served Warsteinter and a Jagerschnitzel by Hiedi and then walk next door and get a Bud, wings and fried clams served by Bambi. You were saying something about diversity...?

Europe truly is the land of the free, a place where anyone may feel free to go about their business without worrying about the apocolyptic fantasies of a megalomaniac, warmongering cretin in charge.

Yet we have the freedom here to listen to some gap toothed dandy shake his fist and scream at us from across the pond. Then we giggle.

But Britain, hmm britain and America being such close allies would lead me to conclude that Europe is more important to the world without the inclusion of Britain all the while Tony Blairs government's foreign policy is dictated by the states, i would like to see Britain sever all ties with the United Masonic States and along with the rest of Europe set up a strong base of opposition to American Globalisation, offer the world a more understanding and ethnically diverse superpower, one which will not stand for the American funded genocide we have seen ever since the outcome of world war two, a group of countries united in their morals and interests for the people of europe, instead of the businesses of America and Britain, but until the Anglo-American sphere is punctured i fear Europe will just become more and more useless without the inclusion of a pro european Britain.

I tire of this. Let me end with "God save the Queen." You do know what a queen over here is, right?

 

[Inuyasha]

Over there you have to cross a border. In this nation you just have to walk a few blocks to go from little Italy to Chinatown. I lived in Germany for two years. I didn't see much diversity. Unless you call Bratwust and Pomme Frits diverce from Currywurst and Pomme Frits. In my town I can get served Warsteinter and a Jagerschnitzel by Hiedi and then walk next door and get a Bud, wings and fried clams served by Bambi. You were saying something about diversity...?

I can agree with most of what you say although i would have expressed it with different words. The only thing i disagree with is the diversity idea. I don't mind crossing borders to see new things. But i was brought up in one of those ethnic enclaves that you say give us diversity. i don't think so. It has taken four generations to get us out of there and into the mainstream of American society. We were there for two reasons. One Fear of others and two, discrimination by others. Not only that the immigrants brought with them a stifling regionalism that just adds to the negative qualities. The older ones have little or no comtact with the rest of America, they often refer to Americans of different ethnicities as "foreigners". They pumped us full of hate for others.Even within the same groups. The Northern Italians still hate the southern Italians and with in the group Sicilians, for example are not trusted by other Italians, the Neapolitans are low class, the Calabrase are all gangsters. The same is true in Eastern European "barrios". I know people who have lived here for 40 years and still speak Ukrainian, Polish or Greek or what have you and cannot handle the English language. It is because they don't care to not because they can't. They prefer to stay in their ethnic enclaves so in a sense they are good Americans because they pay their taxes, some vote and serve the country but they are not such good Americans when they withdraw and look down in others out of inferiority complexes which is often the case. I was lucky to escape all that at 16 because we moved to an area where there were very few of "our people" but just plain Americans. Places like Little Italy or Chinatown may be fine for the tourist trade but for those trapped in them they are a "bone in the throat".

 

[teacher]

I can agree with most of what you say although i would have expressed it with different words.

Hell bro, I don't say much different than many here. It's just that I express it with different words. I find a way to do it in a different style. If I couldn't then I'd be the same as the unwashed masses. Go check who's leading the pack in the No-Billo prize. Giddyup.

 

[teacher]

No matter how you slice it, Iraq was a lot better choice to start than Saudi or Iran.

Rather fortunate the series of events that led to Iraq. Saddam invades Kuwait and upsets the world. He was genuinely a bad guy. Oil. Location. Really the only Arab nation that was not a theocracy. Occupying a theocratic Muslim state might lead to a real Jihad. Iraq used to be a decent place of modern potential. The French were in bed with him. All in all, the best place to begin this quest to free the women.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

Do you even know what colonialism is? I mean seriously you're comparing free trade to mercantalism, gimme a break.

I think it's you that need to check up on basic american history. The years from the independence to late 19:th century. Because how USA took over large part of the north american continent was through colonisation. This is fact and nothing you can argue about.

 

[MSgt]

I think it's you that need to check up on basic american history. The years from the independence to late 19:th century. Because how USA took over large part of the north american continent was through colonisation. This is fact and nothing you can argue about.

You are actually continuing Trajan's argument about European colonization. Europeans came to America. We are the descendants.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

You are actually continuing Trajan's argument about European colonization. Europeans came to America. We are the descendants.

Yep USA as a nation can of course have no responsibility for the action before there independence. But USA got most of the land beyond the appalaches after the indepencence and they then used the same colonization methods as the european nations. The diffrence is that you had a small native poplulation that could be wiped out and/or neutralized. So therefor you didn't have the problem with a big native population that wanted to take back there right to freedom.

Also as I said before you have been involved in international affairs alot ecpecially sens the second world war. So you also have to take a responisibilty like for example for Iran, because you had a big influence before the islamic revolution.

 

[MSgt]

Yep USA as a nation can of course have no responsibility for the action before there independence. But USA got most of the land beyond the appalaches after the indepencence and they then used the same colonization methods as the european nations. The diffrence is that you had a small native poplulation that could be wiped out and/or neutralized. So therefor you didn't have the problem with a big native population that wanted to take back there right to freedom.

Also as I said before you have been involved in international affairs alot ecpecially sens the second world war. So you also have to take a responisibilty like for example for Iran, because you had a big influence before the islamic revolution.

This is not the argument. History cannot be undone. The argument is what has Europe done about anything of theirs? Native Americans enjoy every freedom (plus) that everyone else has in America. Like you said, America has been involved with foreign affairs heavily since the end of WWII. We learned a lesson. Isolationalism is deadly to our people. If left to your own devices, Europe would have surely had a third world war involving Russia and we would have had to come across the ocean, yet again, to clean up your mess. We are not the hypocrits when it comes to responsibility. Our affairs are out in the open for all to see and for all to use to exonerate themselves from doing anything for anybody. All natiouns turn their backs on their responsibilities form time to time, but Europe has developed it into a super human talent.

When it comes to the Muslim world, using America is a cop out. These people need to hate us and they search for any excuse to do it. It's what allows them to justify their behaviors and their backwards culture. Do they need American troops on Saudi soil to drop skyjacked airplanes on our soil? Do they need British troops in Iraq to murder civillians in London? Do they need American troops in Iraq to murder their fellow Muslim? Do they need western influence in Indonesia to murder civillians in Bali, Indonesia? Do they need western cooperation in Jordan to murder Jordanian civillians? Do they need an economic seperation to riot and commit violence in France? And what do they need to burn buildings, murder civillians, and kidnap all over the world......a cartoon?

You should stop looking for their excuses and open your eyes to what they are - a civilization looking for any reason to blame outsiders for their own self-inflicted failures.