Did Trayvon tell Zim to "Get off me!"

[SheWolf]

I guess you could think Zimmerman tackled Martin and tried to take him down. Then Trayvon over took him.

But as far as this goes, there is no evidence of anything. Some people want to believe Zimmerman 100 percent, others like me don't.

The defense tried really hard to get her to admit or confess Trayvon started the fight, and that didn't happen. I don't think Trayvon was planning on attacking Zimmerman.

Now if all the witnesses had placed Martin on Zimmerman the entire time then DeeDee's statement would seem suspect but given what we know now it seems she's telling the truth.

 

[SheWolf]

Witnesses heard sneaker sounds and running.

Two things I believe are abundantly clear to the naked eye:

1. In a foot race, Trayvon Martin could have run around twenty city blocks in the time it would take for George Zimmerman to run 50 feet. If Martin feared he was being stalked, his escape was easy.

2. Not looking at the nice baby shot that the Martin family shared with the media and the media shows off every time they speak about TM, but looking at the young man as he was at the time of the incident, I highly doubt that pudgy, soft Zimmerman was knocking down Martin. It would have had to been a sneak attack to be possible, and from the testamony of the young lady he was on the phone with, Martin appears to have been watching Zimmerman pretty closely.

 

[nota bene]

The gunfight at the Ok Corral lasted only 30 seconds. Sometimes, a minute is a long time.

 

[SheWolf]

I agree. I think she told TMI for better or worse, and if she were deceitful she would have already cracked on the stand through West's cross exam.


If she were coached, they would have told to leave the creepy ass cracka part out among many other phrases used. Lol

Yes, several witnesses saw Zimmerman on top. Now my theory has always been that when two people are wrestling they will swap places, but Zimmerman claimed he was never on top, which is contradicted by witnesses. In fact, one witness says "the person who was on top got up after the shooting". That's Zimmerman getting up after he killed Martin.

He claimed he stopped looking for Martin, which Rachel has now shown is a lie. She was, shall we say, brutally honest. The idea that Mr. Crump could write up a script for her to recite is one of the more bizarre theories of the case. Say what you will about her, but she's got no filter. What she said is what she heard.

 

[SheWolf]

And he says he was on the body cause he moved around.the hands, which didn't happen. Why would he get on a dead person?

You mean after the gunshot, they looked and saw him get up from on top of Martin... Which is exactly what Zimmerman told police that night.

 

[SheWolf]

I have always questioned that too.

Notice the blood streaks moving downward? And not smeared? Do you think that shows he was bleeding with his head in the same position it's in in that photo?

 

[SheWolf]

The other option is to believe George 100 percent, and with his conflicting statements, why should we?

Unless George Zimmerman himself admitted he didn't identify himself, you don't know that. And you have NO proof whatsoever that he tried to detain Trayvon Martin in any way, much less grab hold of his hoodie.

You cannot do this!!! You can't make up **** and say, "It might have gone down like this."

 

[AlfredENeuman]

And he says he was on the body cause he moved around.the hands, which didn't happen. Why would he get on a dead person?

This is pretty interesting. The question has to be asked why he flipped the body over face down and then attempted to restrain a dead person. He claimed that even while he sat his full 204 pounds down on the torso of a kid with a collapsed lung and blown out heart, the kid was struggling against his force and cursing at him and still talking (which of course no one else heard). He claims he spread his arms apart to restrain him. Is that credible to anyone?

So why add that part if he wasn't on top? Considering that we know, even from witnesses who are generally supportive of his case, that if the argument started at the T, they immediately went running down to the place where the cell phone fell, still upright. This is supported by Jenna Lauer, who heard the scuffling of feet and the argument moving quickly. It's supported by Selene Bajadoor, who heard more running and yelling down by the cell phone, and saw them still standing and grappling. It's supported by Rachel Jeantel, who heard the initial argument and the same sounds that Jenna Lauer heard, followed by get off, get off, which we know happened by the cell phone.

In none of this is it supported that Martin hit him once by the T, he fell immediately down backwards, and never got up. How can anyone, after hearing all of these witnesses, say that assertion is true?

Isn't it obvious that the scuffle involved running, grappling while standing, wrestling, straddling, and flipping over? And if so, why isn't it plausible that both people were at times on top?

I'd say the evidence is strong that after John Good went inside, Zimmerman flipped him over using techniques he learned while doing NINE HOURS OF MMA TRAINING EVERY WEEK and then shot him. Really curious what ballistics says.

On that note, please remember that he claims the way he got his right hand free was by pinning Martin's left hand against the ground, somehow reaching the gun by his hip (try that at home) and then with elbow to ground, Martin's hand pinned, he fired. How then does a shot go straight through and not right to left? I think this will be an important piece of evidence to consider.

 

[AlfredENeuman]

I have always questioned that too.

It could be that he hit his head once, got control immediately afterwards, and flipped Martin over. If he was bleeding while on the grass, the blood would smear against the grass and not have those perfect rivulets, would it? And they are going down away from the back towards the front. I showed that picture to my wife and that was the first thing she said about it.

 

[Jerry]

Zim says Trayvon knocked Zim to the ground. Dee Dee says she heard the sound of grass, and heard Trayvon tell Zim to "Get off me!"

Before that, Dee Dee heard Trayvon say, "Get your hands off me." This sounds more like Zim knocked Trayvon down, then Trayvon was able to get on top, after a scuffle in the grass. Did Trayvon throw his first punches, after Zim had knocked him down, and not till after Trayvon was able to get out from underneath of Zim?

Does this show more of a murderous intent in Zim's mind?

I don't remember Zim claiming he asked Trayvon to ge off him. Zim just said he called for help.
//

It's believable, but not provable.

 

[AlfredENeuman]

Thanks for lining up the evidence like that. It looks like the fight lasted, what, a minute until the gun shot went off.

That's what I find so amazing. This is a fist fight that took less than one minute from start -- which involved arguing, then running -- to finish -- which involved something like 30 seconds on the ground at most. In 30 seconds, Zimmerman went from angry and chasing Martin (****ing punks always get away) to fear of life and limb so complete that he was forced to pull his gun and kill him. And all he has to show for it is a bloody nose and two small cuts on his head. Maybe a few abrasions so tiny that the PA who looked at his bald head in a doctor's office the next day couldn't see them.

But damn, 30 seconds of fighting and he had to pull his weapon and fire? From a kid he outweighed by 50 lbs, from a guy who trained 9 hours a week at an MMA fight training gym?

30 SECONDS.

 

[Grim17]

And he says he was on the body cause he moved around.the hands, which didn't happen. Why would he get on a dead person?

I believe he said he held or pinned his arms down, and the reason he did that was because at first he thought the shot might have missed because Martin continued talking... His first thought was that he missed but Martin was giving up because of the gun, so when Martin fell off him, Z got on top of him and held him down thinking he was still a possible danger to him.

 

[ecofarm]

But damn, 30 seconds of fighting and he had to pull his weapon and fire? From a kid he outweighed by 50 lbs, from a guy who trained 9 hours a week at an MMA fight training gym?

30 SECONDS.

Being ambushed is not fun.

 

[AlfredENeuman]

Being ambushed is not fun.

Accepting everything an admitted killer says is not smart.

 

[ecofarm]

Accepting everything an admitted killer says is not smart.

I'm looking at the evidence and testimony, it all lines up with his story (except perhaps the girlfriend on the phone).

 

[AlfredENeuman]

I'm looking at the evidence and testimony, it all lines up with his story (except perhaps the girlfriend on the phone).

No it doesn't. Not at all. Have you ever actually read his initial written statement to police or listened to his initial interview with Singleton?

Because it sure sounds like you're just mindlessly accepting everything he says at face value and have from the first minute you heard "...and today Jesse Jackson was in Florida..."

 

[SheWolf]

I guess Zimmerman didn't say he flipped the body over. He just said he moved the hands out, but police evidence suggests Trayvon's hands were clutching his chest.

So if witnesses were seeing Zimmerman on top, after the gun shot, why would he be on Trayvon? He apparently didn't move his hands.

This is pretty interesting. The question has to be asked why he flipped the body over face down and then attempted to restrain a dead person. He claimed that even while he sat his full 204 pounds down on the torso of a kid with a collapsed lung and blown out heart, the kid was struggling against his force and cursing at him and still talking (which of course no one else heard). He claims he spread his arms apart to restrain him. Is that credible to anyone?

So why add that part if he wasn't on top? Considering that we know, even from witnesses who are generally supportive of his case, that if the argument started at the T, they immediately went running down to the place where the cell phone fell, still upright. This is supported by Jenna Lauer, who heard the scuffling of feet and the argument moving quickly. It's supported by Selene Bajadoor, who heard more running and yelling down by the cell phone, and saw them still standing and grappling. It's supported by Rachel Jeantel, who heard the initial argument and the same sounds that Jenna Lauer heard, followed by get off, get off, which we know happened by the cell phone.

In none of this is it supported that Martin hit him once by the T, he fell immediately down backwards, and never got up. How can anyone, after hearing all of these witnesses, say that assertion is true?

Isn't it obvious that the scuffle involved running, grappling while standing, wrestling, straddling, and flipping over? And if so, why isn't it plausible that both people were at times on top?

I'd say the evidence is strong that after John Good went inside, Zimmerman flipped him over using techniques he learned while doing NINE HOURS OF MMA TRAINING EVERY WEEK and then shot him. Really curious what ballistics says.

On that note, please remember that he claims the way he got his right hand free was by pinning Martin's left hand against the ground, somehow reaching the gun by his hip (try that at home) and then with elbow to ground, Martin's hand pinned, he fired. How then does a shot go straight through and not right to left? I think this will be an important piece of evidence to consider.

 

[SheWolf]

That's stupid. So apparently he says Trayvon fell off him and not on him? If Zimmerman was under him, wouldn't Trayvon have fell over on him? And if he fell over, wouldn't Z think he was injured?

I believe he said he held or pinned his arms down, and the reason he did that was because at first he thought the shot might have missed because Martin continued talking... His first thought was that he missed but Martin was giving up because of the gun, so when Martin fell off him, Z got on top of him and held him down thinking he was still a possible danger to him.

 

[ecofarm]

Because it sure sounds like you're just mindlessly accepting everything he says at face value and have from the first minute you heard "...and today Jesse Jackson was in Florida..."

It sounds like you're mindlessly inventing things while others examine evidence. I presume the last part of your comment is calling me a racist.

 

[SheWolf]

Or suggesting you don't like Jesse Jackson.

It sounds like you're mindlessly inventing things while others examine evidence. I presume the last part of your comment is calling me a racist.

 

[ecofarm]

Or suggesting you don't like Jesse Jackson.

Why?

.

 

[Grim17]

That's stupid. So apparently he says Trayvon fell off him and not on him? If Zimmerman was under him, wouldn't Trayvon have fell over on him? And if he fell over, wouldn't Z think he was injured?

Well let me ask you something then... Assuming what the defense said in their opening statements was true (and there's no reason to think it wasn't), that they are going to bring in a ballistics expert and scientifically prove that Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired, will you still think "that's stupid"? If so, then what other reason can you think of that would make better sense?

 

[year2late]

Actually, Zimmerman is guilty of killing someone. The State doesn't need to prove he did that. In this situation, he needs to provide something that justifies his claim to self-defense. The State must then prove beyond a reasonable to doubt that his reason was either a lie or implausible. Everything rests on his statements regarding the event.

His statements and how it connects to the physical evidence, etc.

 

[SheWolf]

Its stupid to sit on a.dead body. It wasn't moving. He was face down. What is the point of getting on him?

And Zimmerman probably did move the body, if he had to get out of under it then it was moved.

Well let me ask you something then... Assuming what the defense said in their opening statements was true (and there's no reason to think it wasn't), that they are going to bring in a ballistics expert and scientifically prove that Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired, will you still think "that's stupid"? If so, then what other reason can you think of that would make better sense?

 

[SheWolf]

Do you like Jesse ?

Why?

.