Did Anyone Else Read This And Feel Chilled?

[Hip octogenarian]

I wasn't going to post about this but I couldn't let it go. This was in "The Washington Post" today. It doesn't belong in the "Breaking News" forum since it is an opinion piece. It is also behind a paywall so many people would have trouble gaining access to it. But I didn't want to read it and fail to mention it on Debate Politics because I found it so chilling. I wanted to know if other members had also read it and what they thought about it.

"A Trump Dictatorship is increasingly inevitable. We should stop pretending." by Robert Kagan

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/

​

It is not inevitable as long as good people speak up and vote.

 

[Nickyjo]

I'm more disturbed by Trump's supporters than Trump, honestly. Trump has already been president and instead of doing what history's worst dictators have done (e.g. literally imprisoning and executing members of opposition groups, imprisoning and executing minorities, waging conquest type wars, etc.), he typically would just take to Twitter and rant like any other avid Fox News watcher in a La-Z-Boy. Trump is quintessentially an entertainer and provocateur. Compared to history's most notorious dictators, he's more of an attention-seeking clown than an ambitious autocrat. He'd rather get into a highly publicized social media insult battle than start wars, conquer anything or oppress or exterminate anyone.

His supporters, on the other hand, appear to me to have a sort of zeal and attraction to authoritarianism that, if it were someone more ambitious and serious in dictatorial aims, legitimately seems cause for concern that they would enable a dictatorship that could actually get that bad.

Good points, I agree with your analysis of Trump. Concern has arisen among pundits, however, that a new Trump administration will not contain personnel to restrain him as the first one did. Someone like Stephen Miller, for example may have a freer hand under a Trump II administration.

 

[Ambig]

It is not inevitable as long as good people speak up and vote.

Plus, Russian votes really shouldn't count!

 

[MamboDervish]

Then you have no real sense of what an authoritarian government powers would be.

Uh ... maybe. Or, more likely, I have a very real sense about what doing that would actually entail, and I understand that no law enforcement branch in the country would undertake the task of going door to door, literally searching over a hundred million homes for weapons in an effort to confiscate them.

So ... there's that.

 

[mrjurrs]

Uh ... maybe. Or, more likely, I have a very real sense about what doing that would actually entail, and I understand that no law enforcement branch in the country would undertake the task of going door to door, literally searching over a hundred million homes for weapons in an effort to confiscate them.

So ... there's that.

That's cute that you don't think the military would be operating inside the borders of an authoritarian America.

And by not including that likelihood, you add support to my belief that Americans who think an authoritarian government would be okay, just are not thinking.

I do not think that you support an authoritarian America. I do think that maybe you don't fear the idea enough.

 

[MamboDervish]

That's cute that you don't think the military would be operating inside the borders of an authoritarian America.

And by not including that likelihood, you add support to my belief that Americans who think an authoritarian government would be okay, just are not thinking.

And I do not think that a) our own military would be willing to go door to door in over a billion homes to disarm Americans because b) too many who might attempt it will be shot in the face at the door by the "pry my gun from my cold dead hands" crowd that numbers in the millions - which will put a very fast stop to any attempts as simply not being worth the effort.

You'd have catastrophic dissension in the Army, a total collapse of morale, mass resignation of commissions, and military desertions galore, all leaving the country wide open to attack by foreign powers - because the ranks of our military are totally suffused with people who strongly believe in their constitutional right to bear arms.

I do not think that you support an authoritarian America. I do think that maybe you don't fear the idea enough.

No .... the idea of an authoritarian America is very concerning to me. It would be a truly tragic and horrible way for our great experiment to end. But we can easily slip into that without taking guns from our population. In fact, the dissolution of the USA into separate armed states would probably be one result before we fall into a monolithic authoritarian state.

 

[mrjurrs]

And I do not think that a) our own military would be willing to go door to door in over a billion homes to disarm Americans because b) too many who might attempt it will be shot in the face at the door by the "pry my gun from my cold dead hands" crowd that numbers in the millions - which will put a very fast stop to any attempts as simply not being worth the effort.

You'd have catastrophic dissension in the Army, a total collapse of morale, mass resignation of commissions, and military desertions galore, all leaving the country wide open to attack by foreign powers - because the ranks of our military are totally suffused with people who strongly believe in their constitutional right to bear arms.

No .... the idea of an authoritarian America is very concerning to me. It would be a truly tragic and horrible way for our great experiment to end. But we can easily slip into that without taking guns from our population. In fact, the dissolution of the USA into separate armed states would probably be one result before we fall into a monolithic authoritarian state.

All of what you say has been said before in some form by nations that didn't think it could happen to them.

So again, but in my estimation true, 2024 will be the most important election I have ever participated in, and my vote counts about 1/3 as much as someone from WY.
Popular vote, ranked choice voting. Starting in 2028.

 

[MamboDervish]

All of what you say has been said before in some form by nations that didn't think it could happen to them.

So again, but in my estimation true, 2024 will be the most important election I have ever participated in, and my vote counts about 1/3 as much as someone from WY.
Popular vote, ranked choice voting. Starting in 2028.

Good luck with that.

 

[Mircea]

Are you a liberal?

If not, how do you know so much about their goals?

Are you an American? Do you not live in America?

Obviously, you don't.

 

[Nickyjo]

How would that be any different than a Hiden Dictatorship?

Since the goal of Liberals is to destroy the federal republic by shifting it to a unitary-State --which would be necessary for dictatorship -- I'm not seeing any difference.

Seriously, two old guy hacks is the best the US can do for presidential candidates?

Um, where is it written that my goal as a liberal is to destroy the federal republic by shifting it to a “unitary state”? That ship sailed beginning with Teddy Roosevelt, or farther back, with the amendments that followed the Civil War. And I repeat that people have looked towards DC when local and state governments drop the ball, and/or are dominated by corporate interests to the detriment of the people. Had Mississippi respected black people’s rights, no need for the Voting Rights Act of 1965. And now that the Supremes declared the Act no longer needed, pretty obvious that the states that were covered are proving the Court wrong.

 

[Ambig]

Are you an American? Do you not live in America?

Obviously, you don't.

What?

 

[Mircea]

Um, where is it written that my goal as a liberal is to destroy the federal republic by shifting it to a “unitary state”?

You support their agenda. Enough said.

And I repeat that people have looked towards DC when local and state governments drop the ball, and/or are dominated by corporate interests to the detriment of the people.

The States didn't drop the ball.

The pseudo-federal government took over food stamp programs run by States and counties because it wanted more power.

It took over subsidized housing programs from States counties and cities because it wanted more power.

It took over the social security programs of the States because it wanted more power.

It took over the disability programs of the States because it wanted more power.

Had Mississippi respected black people’s rights, no need for the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

That was a legitimate action by the government but note it doesn't give the government more power.

And now that the Supremes declared the Act no longer needed, pretty obvious that the states that were covered are proving the Court wrong.

The act is no longer needed and no one is denying anyone's right to vote.

 

[Captain America]

I wasn't going to post about this but I couldn't let it go. This was in "The Washington Post" today. It doesn't belong in the "Breaking News" forum since it is an opinion piece. It is also behind a paywall so many people would have trouble gaining access to it. But I didn't want to read it and fail to mention it on Debate Politics because I found it so chilling. I wanted to know if other members had also read it and what they thought about it.

"A Trump Dictatorship is increasingly inevitable. We should stop pretending." by Robert Kagan

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/

​

Whereas, I must admit that Trump has the personality and makings of a dictator, I don't think he would ever get there. The country would burn down first.

When I hear all this "Dictator! Dictator!" stuff I give it about as much weight as I do when I hear all the RW "Commie! Commie!" stuff.

Did you guys see my Chicken Little meme I posted earlier today? Pretty cool, huh?

 

[Nickyjo]

You support their agenda. Enough said.

And we number in the many tens of millions. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

The States didn't drop the ball.

Mississippi didn’t do anything about lynching. Dropped the ball. So the NAACP pushed the feds for an anti-lynching law. You approve of that or not?

The pseudo-federal government took over food stamp programs run by States and counties because it wanted more power.

That’s a cause some counties refused to participate. I lived in one of those in California some decades ago. People had to line up for bulk commodities. You approve of what (Tulare, I believe) county did?

It took over subsidized housing programs from States counties and cities because it wanted more power.

Why?

It took over the social security programs of the States because it wanted more power.

Ot was wrong to make SS a national program?

It took over the disability programs of the States because it wanted more power.

Fine with me.

That was a legitimate action by the government but note it doesn't give the government more power.



The act is no longer needed and no one is denying anyone's right to vote.

Really? Just search for the number of bills introduced in all the states covered by the Voting Rights Act - plus other republican ones - that restrict voting. Some of my faves are ones that took polling places out of campuses, prohibited people from giving
water to those in line, and one which says student picture ID is no good, but concealed carry is.

Face it: republicans like Trump and Paul Weyrich have been quite open about not wanting lots of people to vote.

 

[NewfieMom]

The act is no longer needed and no one is denying anyone's right to vote.

As Hamish Howl said to you, "Why don't you just go post in Stormfront"? You have been posting as if you were a normal DP member and not the Nazi you proved yourself to be when you engaged in Holocaust denial. You lie constantly, either because you want to fool others or because others have completely pulled the wool over your eyes when you were made into a Nazi. For that reason all your arguments are suspect. No one should believe what you post as fact.

"The Voting Rights Act, a landmark law that has for decades protected Black Americans from attempts to erode their political power, was dealt one of its most significant challenges this week when a federal appeals court moved to strike down a crucial part of the legislation.

But the ruling on Monday, which would block private citizens and civil rights groups from suing under a key provision of the law called Section 2, is just one of dozens of threats the law has faced: The Voting Rights Act has been under sustained legal and political assault since the day Lyndon B. Johnson signed it in 1965."

How the Voting Rights Act, Newly Challenged, Has Long Been Under Attack (Published 2023)

A federal ruling this week was only the latest in decades of legal challenges to a law that has shored up Black Americans’ political power.

www.nytimes.com

John Roberts’s Long Game

Is this the end of the Voting Rights Act?

www.theatlantic.com

 

[it's just me]

His cultist worshipers and suckers hate America and hate Democracy, so this is their wet dream.....make no mistake. When people show you who they are, pay attention.

Vote Democratic to Protect Our Rights and Democracy.

We don't hate America, it's the nutjobs on the left we dislike.

 

[Jason Warfield]

Some liberals are feigning fear of a dictatorship under the Honorable Donald John Trump.

He could not be a dictator if he tried.

The American system of government is full of safeguards that prevent that.

When President Trump asked for troops to patrol D.C., the Pentagon told him to go pound sand.

When it was feared that besieged President Nixon might use the troops to stay in power, his Secretary of Defense told all generals to ignore any orders from the President.

I have read that the Washington Post is in serious financial straits.

That's great news!

Besides, if there ever is a dictatorship (such as a president unilaterally forgiving college loans!), it will be under a "Democratic" president and Congress. Maybe in 2025.

Most likely correct, but he will try to usurp the election again as he tried in 2020 if he doesn't win again.

And there wouldn't be a dictatorship in 2025 under a Democrat not only for the same reasons as you listed. but because Biden (and other Democrats) isn't actively trying to make it happen, unlike Trump.

Side note - Biden's unilateral loan forgiveness was struck down by the Supreme Court. He is now doing is piecemeal and with a lot of caveats (like the current $39 billion, you have to have paid for at least 20 years off of your debt). That is one of the many safeguards that you alluded to. Also, all presidents have made unilateral decisions and all have had some of those decisions...aka executive orders...reversed by the Supreme Court or Congress.

Executive Orders | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

 

[Cordelier]

In my experience, only enemies of the people tend to use the phrase "enemy of the people".

 

[Old 'N Chill]

We don't hate America, it's the nutjobs on the left we dislike.

Trump worshipers hate America and democracy, just like he does. They also are deceptive and will never admit the truth, they follow the path of their new Jesus, traitor trump the COUP inciting, Putin sucking failure/conman/grifter/scumbag/racist/liar/rapist/ignorant criminal.

 

[Ganondagan]

A supporter of dictatorships would cheer the demise of a newspaper that employs fact checkers. Kind of a giveaway.

I'm pretty sure the Washington Post's fact checkers are ot checking facts at all, they're protecting the leftist narrative

 

[CLAX1911]

I wasn't going to post about this but I couldn't let it go. This was in "The Washington Post" today. It doesn't belong in the "Breaking News" forum since it is an opinion piece. It is also behind a paywall so many people would have trouble gaining access to it. But I didn't want to read it and fail to mention it on Debate Politics because I found it so chilling. I wanted to know if other members had also read it and what they thought about it.

"A Trump Dictatorship is increasingly inevitable. We should stop pretending." by Robert Kagan

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/

​

It's hyperbole. The point is to scare you. But it's absurd. If Trump gets elected he'll serve his four years and be fine just like the last round.

To think he wants to be a dictator is stupid.

 

[justabubba]

Looks like you have broken Godwin's Law.
Already comparing Trump to Adolf Hitler.
Such a clever comparison. Never saw that made before.

If the foo shits, wear it

 

[MamboDervish]

It's hyperbole. The point is to scare you. But it's absurd. If Trump gets elected he'll serve his four years and be fine just like the last round.

?? WHAT ?? He was never fine after losing the last round !! In fact, more than 3 years later, he's still not fine after the last round! It's far too early for this feeble revisionist history. Come back and try this again in 40 years, when most people might have forgotten.

To think he wants to be a dictator is stupid.

He very much does, which most people agree IS stupid!

 

[CLAX1911]

?? WHAT ?? He was never fine after losing the last round !!

you are lying he voluntarily left. He questioned the election but you're allowed to do that.

In fact, more than 3 years later, he's still not fine after the last round!

so he's been acting as a shadow government for the country?

It's far too early for this feeble revisionist history. Come back and try this again in 40 years, when most people might have forgotten.

He very much does, which most people agree IS stupid!

See what I mean? When the likes of you say it's not stupid you are affirming what I said thank you for agreement.

Perhaps it's just that you've lived in ultra privileged life that you have no idea what a dictator is. I thought her education system did that but apparently it failed you.

 

[Ambig]

you are lying he voluntarily left. He questioned the election but you're allowed to do that.

Why are you defending a man who tried to steal the US presidency?

We all know Trump would have never left except that he knew he was about to be dragged out by force.