Derek Chauvin trial livestream and discussion

[SkyFox76]

Just watching HLN and they give information on how the jury is reacting to the witnesses. This particular witness had their full attention and they were all taking notes. When he was timing Floyds last breath on the video they were all eyes glues, Floyds family member was just staring straight forward unable to watch. Just as an example of other witnesses, one juror dozed off (I don't recall which expert testimony was going on) and others just seemed bored. So this guy is doing his job and doing it well. I love how a lot of experts are somewhat quirky. Accents and looks wise.

 

[PoS]

Well the pulmonary expert's testimony was pretty damning. I wonder if the defense will call their own expert to refute it?

 

[Callen]

He was mesmerizing and made it all so understandable.

 

[ASHES]

Well the pulmonary expert's testimony was pretty damning. I wonder if the defense will call their own expert to refute it?

No doubt, there are over a dozen medical expert witnesses scheduled to testify. Won't hear from them(the defense experts) for awhile though.

Cross examination of this witness in particular will be important, he's probably going to attack the drug angle, pulmonary edema, and that the doctor doesn't know MPD policies and practices.

 

[Callen]

that the doctor doesn't know MPD policies and practices.

The doctor doesn't need to know that, that is not why he is there and not what he is testifying to. I think the defence has a hard row to hoe with this witness.

 

[ASHES]

The doctor doesn't need to know that, that is not why he is there and not what he is testifying to. I think the defence has a hard row to hoe with this witness.

No doubt, but it is likely they will bring up that he practices in Chicago, and maybe that he got his doctorate in Ireland. It seems like it would be difficult refuting a lot of the individual points made by the witness. The one that stuck with me the most was that Floyd did not have depressed breathing as would be expected in a fentanyl OD.

 

[JANFU]

I mean im taking you step by step to show you where you are wrong right here and now for free even.

Perhaps you should start your own thread
Nah, go and make your own thread

 

[Callen]

but it is likely they will bring up that he practices in Chicago, and maybe that he got his doctorate in Ireland

They can if they want to look stupid. He was accredited in the States and has international credentials including international awards that make your head spin. All that would do in my mind is reinforce how eminently qualified he is.

 

[Binary_Digit]

I mean i dont care if its spamming at this point but if you cant tell the difference in metrics involved maybe you should step back from covering this case. Its a goddamn simple question.

Look man, I'm probably as convinced as anybody that Floyd died from a knee, not drugs or health problems, but come on. The autopsy report says what it says. ASHES is just being the messenger on that point and is overall doing a great service to the entire DP community here. Why you insist on taking HIM to court over what the autopsy report says makes no damn sense at all, and I think you should either back off from attacking him or take a break from this thread. Your outrage is aimed at the wrong person.

 

[Lursa]

Back on the record. He says we can tell the oxygen became insufficient (brain injured) when he straightened up his legs.

It will be my lunch recess soon and I will be unable to update during that time.

I've been reading the testimony on various sites today and it is very specific and it is damning as hell.

The details on placement, position, timing, GF's condition, etc.

The defense will try to poke holes in it all, of course, but what it usually comes down to is, "but is it possible it did/did not?" and the expert usually cannot say 100%. But it's the note they leave that witness on..."it's possible." A dull or stupid jury needs to be reminded of reality.

 

[Lursa]

11 what and what is the fatal level of fentanyl? Gogogogogo!

And it wasnt 'under normal circumstances.' I dont know why that qualifier is ignored. It was added to the report for a reason.

 

[JANFU]

I've been reading the testimony on various sites today and it is very specific and it is damning as hell.

The details on placement, position, timing, GF's condition, etc.

The defense will try to poke holes in it all, of course, but what it usually comes down to is, "but is it possible it did/did not?" and the expert usually cannot say 100%. But it's the note they leave that witness on..."it's possible." A dull or stupid jury needs to be reminded of reality.

IIRC
Dr Tobin also ruled out fentanyl as COD-

 

[ASHES]

IIRC
Dr Tobin also ruled out fentanyl as COD-

Like this:

The last expert testified to that. They said a fentanyl OD would have decreased his respiratory rate significantly from his regular respiratory rate. His respiratory rate was 22 when he was being restrained, just before he lost consciousness. The normal respiratory rate is 12-22. The Dr. would have expected to see a depressed respiratory rate of around 10 in a fentanyl OD in Floyd.

 

[Lursa]

IIRC
Dr Tobin also ruled out fentanyl as COD-

Yes, of course. I dont know what to tell you. And every single ME report stated COD as homicide. Not suicide or accident. That rules out drugs as proximal COD.

After seeing it verified by experts that they can tell so much so specifically about when GF ceased breathing, and about his physical struggles and how long it all took...IMO the defense will never be able to over come that Chauvin went way overboard, knowingly used excessive force, denied GF medical assistance (from himself and the other cops), and demonstrated clear depraved indifference. Murder 3 easily and since they've proven he was a fully trained veteran officer? Who violated using the proper procedure? I'm hoping Murder 2.

 

[Callen]

And every single ME report stated COD as homicide

Homicide is the killing of one person by another but is not necessarily a crime. Criminal homicide is called murder or manslaughter. However, the fact the ME's all say it was a death caused by another human is damning. I expect the defence will say the homicide was caused by the guy in the car who supplied Floyd with the drugs.....which is why that person is claiming the 5th.

 

[JANFU]

Like this:

Yes that does it -

 

[ASHES]

Defense cross. Afk

 

[Lursa]

Homicide is the killing of one person by another but is not necessarily a crime. Criminal homicide is called murder or manslaughter. However, the fact the ME's all say it was a death caused by another human is damning. I expect the defence will say the homicide was caused by the guy in the car who supplied Floyd with the drugs.....which is why that person is claiming the 5th.

Yes I know that. The ME makes no charges at all. THose 3 designations have very clear meanings in ME reports tho: homicide means he was killed. (What I bolded in your post ) Intention, method, etc not involved in designating that category...it's just a determination that it wasnt suicide or accidental.

 

[ASHES]

Defense questioning him on the specifics of the physics involved in weight distribution, and how it is fluctuating moment to moment.

Questioning the witnesses' calculations, calling them theoretical, and he's making assumptions. Witness is pushing back.

Defense says he assumes the weight is equal on both legs throughout, bit that in reality the weight can shot back and forth. The witness agrees.

Bringing up Floyd's medical conditions, now blood pressure and covid.

Witness says Floyd was not hyperventilating, which assists in removing excess CO2.

Asking about other conditions, smoking, etc. Back to fentanyl.

 

[MaryP]

Same here. And I've listened to it on four different sets of speakers. I hear the ahh ha I (either) ate or ain't followed by unintelligible

By suggesting repeatedly what Floyd is saying, the attorney is using a well known technique that we were always warned against when interviewing children. But it works on adults as well. It's suggestion, sometimes called 'leading.' He is implanting an idea in jury's minds, and the more often it's repeated, the more likely some will start to believe it. We were always told that the judge wouldn't find such an interview valid, so I'm not sure why the judge here allowed it. Unless maybe the judge heard it too.

 

[ASHES]

Asking about how a combination of meth, fentanyl and adrenaline might affect the heart rate.

Defense done, state re-cross.

Witness says he isn't bruised on his buttocks by the church pew so he wouldn't expect to see bruising on Floyd's neck.

Addressing the preexisting conditions. He says none of the conditions mattered in Floyd's death.

About substances, he didn't die of fentanyl, and he says no evidence of fentanyl or meth. Says he saw no evidence Floyd ingested fentanyl in the 5 minutes before his death, and did not have a depressed respiratory rate. State done. Defense re-cross.

Brings up his high CO2 again. Also says fentanyl can cause death from low oxygen. State redirect, one question, do people go into a coma before they die, yes, was Floyd in a coma, no, witness excused. 5 minute recess until 3:25pm ET.

 

[bomberfox]

And it wasnt 'under normal circumstances.' I dont know why that qualifier is ignored. It was added to the report for a reason.

Probably because it would blow a certain narrative out of the water.

 

[bomberfox]

ok since Ashes wants to avoid this point altogether, why? The hell if i know. I remember in another argument i clarified with Ashes what he thinks was a fatal level of fentanyl and he showed me this.

Fentanyl: What Is a Lethal Dosage? | Oxford

Lethal doses will vary depending on who is taking the drug. Learn more about Fentanyl misuse and how to get treatment for Fentanyl addiction.

oxfordtreatment.com

And continued to conflate 11 with 2 and only he knows why he doesnt want to talk about the metrics involved but its the most laughably dishonest take ive seen on this subject. 2 mg in the fatal dose is not the same as the blood concentration. 11 is larger than 2 so it must be more than 3 times riiiiiiiight gais? Heheheh aint that cuuuute?

But its wroooong!

1. 11ng/mol is the blood concentration of a substance, not the dosage. I corrected Ashes before on this subject but he refuses to let up still!

2. no way in **** all is 11 nanograms 3x higher than 2 miligrams

3. in order to tell if Floyd had 3x the lethal level of fentanyl we would have to look at more than the vague ass passage in a preliminary autopsy which prompts me to ask what is the lethal level of fentanyl he is talking about?

i find all this dodging to be patently dishonest.

 

[bomberfox]

I've been reading the testimony on various sites today and it is very specific and it is damning as hell.

The details on placement, position, timing, GF's condition, etc.

The defense will try to poke holes in it all, of course, but what it usually comes down to is, "but is it possible it did/did not?" and the expert usually cannot say 100%. But it's the note they leave that witness on..."it's possible." A dull or stupid jury needs to be reminded of reality.

Yeah that tactic of “well its possible nuuuurrr!” Is so infuriatingly sleazy.

 

[bomberfox]

No one is forcing you to participate if you don't like my analysis.

Im disappointed because you can do better but apparently when your feet are held to the fire ya buckle.