Derek Chauvin trial livestream and discussion

[MaryP]

Pics of reactions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/photography/interactive/2021/photos-reactions-to-chauvin-trial-verdict/

 

[SkyFox76]

Pics of reactions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/photography/interactive/2021/photos-reactions-to-chauvin-trial-verdict/

Wonderful photos, TY for sharing.

 

[maxparrish]

Quite aside from the partisan dispute over whether or not the defense closing was effective (I've read commentary on both sides by several attorneys) IF the jury members were fearless, intellectually capable, ruthlessly objective, and inclined to take a deep dive into the evidence, there is little doubt in my mind that they would arrive at a not guilty verdict on the particular charges made.

Mind you, I don't think the jury has the will or ability to fulfill those requirements, and Chauvin will be convicted of at least manslaughter if not also 3rd degree murder. But the jury, if it does, is badly wrong...and obviously so.

In sum:

Cause of Death:

- the cardioid theory, as well as the knee cutting off air flow was pretty well debunked on cross.
- the positional asphyxia theory is questionable.
- there were credible theories of more than one cause, the state witnesses acknowledging the facts of these claims, including put not limited to:

1) Floyd had substantial blockage of his major coronary arteries, two were 75% blocked and the third 90% blocked. Result: heart vulnerable to restriction in blood flow and o2 supply, and to an abruptly increased demand for blood due to stimulation or stress.

2) Floyd had pathological hypertension, with enlarged heart. This increased the heart’s demand for blood and oxygen under even normal resting conditions, also making the heart v vulnerable when stressed where the demand for blood could not readily be met (e.g., because of profound blockage of the coronary arteries).

3) Floyd was an acknowledged drug addict and user of both methamphetamine and fentanyl, as well as other drugs. In the cardiovascular health context, methamphetamine in particular is widely recognized as causing long-term damage to the heart, once again making Floyd unusually vulnerable to heart failure, especially under stressful circumstances.

4) For fentanyl, a reasonable inference can be made that a potentially lethal does of 11ng/ml of the drug found in Floyd’s system, plus another 5ng/ml or so of the active metabolite nor-fentanyl, could have killed, or at least contributed to Floyd’s death.

5) There is evidence of Floyd ingesting this as he was first contacted, while sitting in his SUV. "Ate too much" being yet another indicator.

6) Floyd had the same symptoms (e.g. stomach pains, slow decline of resistence to death under restraint) when he had to be hospitalized for fent. dose two months prior.

7) It is plausible that the stresses on Floyd’s heart were increasing gradually over the course of that 9-minute restraint—his heart’s reserves of oxygen were being depleted at a rate faster than they could be replenished because of the increased demands of an enlarged heart, the coronary artery disease limiting his blood supply, and the fentanyl depressing oxygenation of his blood in any case—but that the actual moment of death came when those gradually increasing stressors hit the threshold needed to trigger a fatal arrhythmia, and that was that—instantaneous death.

8) So the fairest view of the cause of Floyd’s death is that there was not a single cause, but combination of many causes. In other words if Floyd had fought the arrest and placement for the same period of time but was eventually secured in the vehicle would he have died anyway? Was the physical struggle with officers, given the fragility of his cardiovascular system and his substantial (or perhaps even acutely fatal) concentration of fentanyl enough to kill him, all by themselves, without any restraint whatever?

Can we know that the answer to that question is no, and know beyond any reasonable doubt? Because if we can’t, then we can’t conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin’s restraint of Floyd “caused” Floyd’s death and then we’ve failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt of his guilt.

Aside from the question of intent or excessive force, if you can't prove that Chauvin's action caused or substantially caused the death of George Floyd, you needn't bother with considering the charges further...although I will later.

Verdict was not too surprising (but I thought he'd get 3rd degree murder max) but what was surprising is just how craven, unintelligent, , morally warped, and dogmatically unwilling to take a deep dive into the evidence or have the slightest curiosity over anything - its was jury of either tremulous rabbits or adherents of the narrative of white cop is bad man hurting nice black man till proven innocent.

The mere fact that they took less than a day to occasionally glance at the evidence and determine the legal requirements for causality, guilt, and the correct charges shows this jury to have been bereft of integrity.

Well now we have three juries of historic ill repute: Rodney Kings, OJ Simpson's, and Derik Chauvin.

 

[Overitall]

@ASHES just wanted to commend you on a thread that was done very well by you.

 

[Grand Mal]

Verdict was not too surprising (but I thought he'd get 3rd degree murder max) but what was surprising is just how craven, unintelligent, , morally warped, and dogmatically unwilling to take a deep dive into the evidence or have the slightest curiosity over anything - its was jury of either tremulous rabbits or adherents of the narrative of white cop is bad man hurting nice black man till proven innocent.

The mere fact that they took less than a day to occasionally glance at the evidence and determine the legal requirements for causality, guilt, and the correct charges shows this jury to have been bereft of integrity.

Well now we have three juries of historic ill repute: Rodney Kings, OJ Simpson's, and Derik Chauvin.

That's why he has a route for appeal.
You'll have to get another narrative ready for then.

 

[SkyFox76]

Verdict was not too surprising (but I thought he'd get 3rd degree murder max) but what was surprising is just how craven, unintelligent, , morally warped, and dogmatically unwilling to take a deep dive into the evidence or have the slightest curiosity over anything - its was jury of either tremulous rabbits or adherents of the narrative of white cop is bad man hurting nice black man till proven innocent.

The mere fact that they took less than a day to occasionally glance at the evidence and determine the legal requirements for causality, guilt, and the correct charges shows this jury to have been bereft of integrity.

Well now we have three juries of historic ill repute: Rodney Kings, OJ Simpson's, and Derik Chauvin.

The prosecution did their job. Slamming the jury for seeing a duck and identifying it as a duck is weak. Had they come back with an acquittal that fast you'd probably be praising them for looking at the evidence and making the correct call.

 

[pamak]

For those of you who followed the details of the trial:

Was the "expert" who testified for the defense that Chauvin used reasonable force an active police trainer?

I would expect demands of his resignation if such is the case...

 

[ASHES]

For those of you who followed the details of the trial:

Was the "expert" who testified that Chauvin used reasonable force an active police trainer?

I would expect demands of his resignation if such is the case...

No he's a private consultant. He used to be in law enforcement.

 

[pamak]

No he's a private consultant. He used to be in law enforcement.

Thanks,

I hope I will not see him in the future consult in any way any law enforcement agency...

 

[Old 'N Chill]

Much respect for the attorneys for the prosecution, they did an excellent and thorough job presenting and explaining exactly what happened and the evidence involved in the murder case. Also, to the brave witnesses who came forth, as painful as it was for some of them, to tell what they knew concerning the events of that fateful day of the deceased Mr. Floyd.

The officers who came forward and spoke the truth should be recognized for sticking their necks out and telling the truth about the murder, instead of following the historic Blue Code of silence, and defending a killer cop. A combination of all these witnesses, attorneys and their outstanding efforts, allowed the jury to come to a just verdict.

Many in America, especially the Floyd family, was able to have a little comfort and breathe a sigh of relief. We need more truth and transparency in any future trials like this, the good police officers don't want to work with, or be associated with, reckless killers. These cops who abuse their power leave a gray cloud over the entire police force, they have to be weeded out, they are toxic to the force and to society, unworthy to wear a badge.

 

[maxparrish]

The prosecution did their job. Slamming the jury for seeing a duck and identifying it as a duck is weak. Had they come back with an acquittal that fast you'd probably be praising them for looking at the evidence and making the correct call.

The prosecution did more than their job, they used every unethical tactic in the book to overload the defense, deny them timely access to exhibits, repeatedly call witnesses to repeat the same opinion testifying to the same thing, lied about testimony, and entertained every wanna-be hero lawyer from corporate America to join in on the fun. Like many prosecutors in America, they mocked their duty to be officers of the court and seek due process justice over conviction.

And no, had the jury come back with an acquittal after 10 hours of deliberation I'd be convinced they didn't look at the evidence or explore the law, and were as prejudiced as any southern white jury in Selma in the 1940s or 50s. The same kind of folk who were also exposed to raging white mobs demanding the conviction of an innocent black men, or release of whites accused to harming or killing a black man or boy.

Most murder trials take 2 days, not 2 weeks. There was a ton of evidence to examine, a lot of differing takes on Minn. law on the exact meaning of causation, etc. - Emulating the OJ Simpson trial. (At least the Rodney King verdict took 7 days of deliberation...and it wasn't a 1/10th as complex as this one).

So there it is, yet another trial based on anything other than due process, by the threat of days of city wide rioting (LA burned for six days)...because the "woke" mob and their enablers hates due process.

 

[SkyFox76]

The prosecution did more than their job, they used every unethical tactic in the book to overload the defense, deny them timely access to exhibits, repeatedly call witnesses to repeat the same opinion testifying to the same thing, lied about testimony, and entertained every wanna-be hero lawyer from corporate America to join in on the fun. Like many prosecutors in America, they mocked their duty to be officers of the court and seek due process justice over conviction.

And no, had the jury come back with an acquittal after 10 hours of deliberation I'd be convinced they didn't look at the evidence or explore the law, and were as prejudiced as any southern white jury in Selma in the 1940s or 50s. The same kind of folk who were also exposed to raging white mobs demanding the conviction of an innocent black men, or release of whites accused to harming or killing a black man or boy.

Most murder trials take 2 days, not 2 weeks. There was a ton of evidence to examine, a lot of differing takes on Minn. law on the exact meaning of causation, etc. - Emulating the OJ Simpson trial. (At least the Rodney King verdict took 7 days of deliberation...and it wasn't a 1/10th as complex as this one).

So there it is, yet another trial based on anything other than due process, by the threat of days of city wide rioting (LA burned for six days)...because the "woke" mob and their enablers hates due process.

Okay

 

[maxparrish]

Much respect for the attorneys for the prosecution, they did an excellent and thorough job presenting and explaining exactly what happened and the evidence involved in the murder case. Also, to the brave witnesses who came forth, as painful as it was for some of them, to tell what they knew concerning the events of that fateful day of the deceased Mr. Floyd.

The officers who came forward and spoke the truth should be recognized for sticking their necks out and telling the truth about the murder, instead of following the historic Blue Code of silence, and defending a killer cop. A combination of all these witnesses, attorneys and their outstanding efforts, allowed the jury to come to a just verdict.

Many in America, especially the Floyd family, was able to have a little comfort and breathe a sigh of relief. We need more truth and transparency in any future trials like this, the good police officers don't want to work with, or be associated with, reckless killers. These cops who abuse their power leave a gray cloud over the entire police force, they have to be weeded out, they are toxic to the force and to society, unworthy to wear a badge.

Yes...I understand. It was so hard on the prosecution...like they only had 12 attorneys, most from other areas of the country. I mean, how do you arrange to feed all those people?

And yes, "those officers" risked SO MUCH when they dutifully echoed what their supervisors and their bosses demanded...'through Chauvin under the bus" being about as much personal risk as freezing in a snowstorm in the Florida Keys.

LOL..what a lame tribute and fake solemnity.

 

[SkyFox76]

Yes...I understand. It was so hard on the prosecution...like they only had 12 attorneys, most from other areas of the country. I mean, how do you arrange to feed all those people?

And yes, "those officers" risked SO MUCH when they dutifully echoed what their supervisors and their bosses demanded...'through Chauvin under the bus" being about as much personal risk as freezing in a snowstorm in the Florida Keys.

LOL..what a lame tribute and fake solemnity.

Seems Chauvin wasn't high enough on the totem pole for the likes of Lin Wood, but Nelson put up an ok fight. Fortunately there was video of the murder.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

Yes...I understand. It was so hard on the prosecution...like they only had 12 attorneys, most from other areas of the country. I mean, how do you arrange to feed all those people?

And yes, "those officers" risked SO MUCH when they dutifully echoed what their supervisors and their bosses demanded...'through Chauvin under the bus" being about as much personal risk as freezing in a snowstorm in the Florida Keys.

LOL..what a lame tribute and fake solemnity.

Looks like we have another butt hurt "conservative" here, that is pissed the killer cop was convicted. Not surprising, but unpatriotic and disgusting. Why do you hate justice so much? I know, you only like it when cops who kill black Americans get off scott free.....gorcha. I'll let you in on a little secret, that's not justice.