Democrats, you are creating room for Donald Trump

[NatMorton]

Stop watching Fox News and you’ll be fine.

Some of what you are writing is correct but you are mostly reacting to propaganda intended to make the Democratic Party look as bad as possible.

Let’s take crime as an example.

Please look at the actual data:

US crime: Is America seeing a surge in violence?

Law and order promises to be a key talking point in the US midterms. We look at the numbers.

www.bbc.com

The Jim Crow talk about changes to voting laws is definitely an exaggeration, and the Democrats should sidestep discussion of voter identification, but some changes are bad. For instance, the changes in some states are intended to give Republicans the power — the Option — to arbitrarily overturn future elections if they want to.

A lot of the stuff about critical race theory only deals with topics discussed at the college level. K-12 schools aren’t getting critical race theory instruction. It doesn’t apply. There isn’t enough time in a school day to discuss it. And assuming that’s the goal, what difference does it make. Instruction and curriculum is locally controlled to a large extent. It’s a non issue. A talking point intended to get high ratings for Hannity and Tucker Carlson.

Don't watch Fox News. Stop assuming so much and you'll be better.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Don't watch Fox News. Stop assuming so much and you'll be better.

So where did you get the idea that crime was a big problem? Something managed to convince you it was a problem. If it wasn't Fox News, then what was it? We, Democrats, need to know so we can prevent Trump from being elected again.

Throw us a bone here.



This is what you wrote:

Here's a thought for our friends on the left. Have you ever stopped to consider that the irrational positions many of your leaders hold:

• That the current spike in violent crime has nothing to do with the social justice movement's anti-law-enforcement message.

What "spike" are you talking about? Based don't the data above there is no "spike" in crime. This is false.

How did you fall for the pro-Trump and anti-Democratic Party propaganda?

Maybe it was just messaging and Democratic Party propaganda? Maybe the Democratic Party is simply failing with its messaging and PR? What recommendations do you have for Democrats that they can use to convince Trump supporters that they are being lied to about the issue of crime?

 

[dncc]

Here's a thought for our friends on the left. Have you ever stopped to consider that the irrational positions many of your leaders hold:

• That the current spike in violent crime has nothing to do with the social justice movement's anti-law-enforcement message.
• That basic voter identification requirements and voting deadlines are the new Jim Crow.
• That higher taxes on goods and services aren't going to translate into higher prices for those least equipped to pay more.
• That teaching CRT is no more than teaching about racism.

... are going to create an opportunity for then candidate Donald Trump to craft a set of campaign messages that make sense and appeal to moderates?

Trump has never gotten more votes than a Democratic Party opponent. The worst thing that could happen to the GOP in 2024 is having Trump on the ballot.

But don't let me dissuade you.

 

[NatMorton]

So where did you get the idea that crime was a big problem? Something managed to convince you it was a problem. If it wasn't Fox News, then what was it? We, Democrats, need to know so we can prevent Trump from being elected again.

Throw us a bone here.

View attachment 67343048

This is what you wrote:



What "spike" are you talking about? Based don't the data above there is no "spike" in crime. This is false.

How did you fall for the pro-Trump and anti-Democratic Party propaganda?

Maybe it was just messaging and Democratic Party propaganda? Maybe the Democratic Party is simply failing with its messaging and PR? What recommendations do you have for Democrats that they can use to convince Trump supporters that they are being lied to about the issue of crime?

If you read the OP more carefully you’d realize it’s a warning. I’m not a Trump supporter.

Try to be less reflexively partisan. You’ll make fewer mistakes.

 

[NatMorton]

Trump has never gotten more votes than a Democratic Party opponent. The worst thing that could happen to the GOP in 2024 is having Trump on the ballot.

But don't let me dissuade you.

^^^ another reflexively partisan reply.

 

[dncc]

^^^ another reflexively partisan reply.

^^^ can't tell me what "partisan" means

 

[W_Heisenberg]

If you read the OP more carefully you’d realize it’s a warning. I’m not a Trump supporter.

Try to be less reflexively partisan. You’ll make fewer mistakes.

I'm not being reflexively partisan. And I want you to know I'm a former Republican.

I am merely trying to understand why you think crime is something Democrats have to address.

Do you accept the data on the crime I posted, or do you not?

If you do accept the crime data I posted, then I ask the following:

• If the crime rate is not rising in comparison to a longer historical trend, why does the issue matter?
• If this is an issue solely about lies on the part of Republicans/Trump supporters, then where are these lies coming from, and how do you suggest Democrats address these lies?
• Is this only an issue of dropping defund the police messaging? Is that it?

 

[gino]

There was 2 billion dollars in damage in the past year from Democrat supported riots. This is violence that did not have to happen, but did with the provocation of the Democrats. It doesn't matter if the total crime statistics went down.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

There was 2 billion dollars in damage in the past year from Democrat supported riots. This is violence that did not have to happen, but did with the provocation of the Democrats.

But Democrats did not support the violent rioters. They supported the peaceful protestors.

Just because Hannity and Tucker Carlson told you Democrats supported the violent rioters doesn't mean they were telling you the truth.

It doesn't matter if the total crime statistics went down.

Huh?

That doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't the actual level of crime matter? Isn't that what actually matters?

 

[gino]

But Democrats did not support the violent rioters. They supported the peaceful protestors.

Just because Hannity and Tucker Carlson told you Democrats supported the violent rioters doesn't mean they were telling you the truth.

Nice try. Even Kamilla Harris said she was contributing to a fund to bail out rioters that were arrested. And MANY democratic politicians openly supported the riots by refusing to arrest the rioters and by ordering the police to not do their jobs in quelling the riots. Hell, even national congresswomen openly supported violence before the George Floyd verdict. Democrats own 2 billion dollars in damage.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Nice try. Even Kamilla Harris said she was contributing to a fund to bail out rioters that were arrested.

The fund wasn't designed specifically for rioters. It was a fund to provide bail money to everyone. Also, everyone has the right to bail. And even if someone is given money for bail a judge still has to make a decision as to whether or not it's safe for the community.

And MANY democratic politicians openly supported the riots by refusing to arrest the rioters and by ordering the police to not do their jobs in quelling the riots.

A handful, maybe. The vast majority of party members and elected officials did not support the rioters in any way.

Hell, even national congresswomen openly supported violence before the George Floyd verdict. Democrats own 2 billion dollars in damage.

Who? How many? Do you have citations or references?

The vast majority of Democrats did not support violence and actively condemned it.

I am curious what sources of news do you consume?

 

[911Sparky]

Which if I'm not mistaken also describes the conventional wisdom on the prospects of Trump becoming President shortly after he announced his candidacy in 2015.

This is true, many people underestimated trump in 2016, but then voters only had a feeling he was not a great candidate, but better than Clinton. After 4 years in office all democrats, most independents, and even a good percentage of Republicans saw what he really was, and are not going to vote for him. Of course there are Republicans who will not vote for any
Democrat, and thus would pull the lever for trump, but not in numbers sufficient to put him in the White House again. My own belief is that trump won't run in 2020, but may have some sway over who does.

 

[911Sparky]

I think those with Trump endorsements in 2022 will fare VERY well.

His endorsements only produced winners about 50% of the time when he was in office, it's unlikely he can improve on that percentage now that he is out of office. Then when you add in the fomenting of the insurrection, and the constant lying about the election results will certainly hurt his credibility with all but the mindless trumpers who would make a meal out of dog crap if he told them to.

 

[911Sparky]

Actually, that's 100% true. The DNC forced Hillary through. If it had been Bernie vs Donald, we would have had 4 years of Sanders.

It is highly doubtful that Sanders would have won, the socialist label is a hard one to overcome. Even if he somehow had managed a win, how many of his policies would have passed through a Republican controlled House and Senate, not many I'll bet.

 

[gino]

It is highly doubtful that Sanders would have won, the socialist label is a hard one to overcome. Even if he somehow had managed a win, how many of his policies would have passed through a Republican controlled House and Senate, not many I'll bet.

If the Democrats had not rigged the primaries, Sanders would have been the nominee and there is a good chance he could have won. I doubt he could have done much, he isn't well-liked by either party. Truthfully, he really hasn't accomplished much in his entire career as far as getting things passed.

 

[Jay59]

Here's a thought for our friends on the left. Have you ever stopped to consider that the irrational positions many of your leaders hold:

• That the current spike in violent crime has nothing to do with the social justice movement's anti-law-enforcement message.
• That basic voter identification requirements and voting deadlines are the new Jim Crow.
• That higher taxes on goods and services aren't going to translate into higher prices for those least equipped to pay more.
• That teaching CRT is no more than teaching about racism.

... are going to create an opportunity for then candidate Donald Trump to craft a set of campaign messages that make sense and appeal to moderates?

Trump does not need opportunities, but he's not going to run.

The more interesting thing is to view these points as they apply to the 2022 midterm elections, which launch in just a few weeks.

• Democrats own the phrase defund the police, which undercuts any statements they make on crime, particularly violent crime.
• Minorities, including specifically blacks, support voter ID requirements, so calls of vote suppression have been hollow
• Higher taxes are never popular, nor is inflation.
• CRT is unpopular and seen as intrusive.
• Add that leading indicators point to a poorer economy in 2022 and persistent unemployment.

Is it any wonder that Republicans are expecting to retake both House and Senate?