The type of gun is irrelevant. All guns are a bad idea and not helpful, on balance, in increasing home safety.This fella claims he did a study of actual shootings and found that it was basically irrelevant what type firearm a person has in nearly any instance. With that, he points to how fast a person can fire an ordinary .22LR semi-auto rifle accurately compared to other firearms.
Best home defense weapon? Surprise, it's not a shotgun! - YouTube
His "study"
An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association
I've always claimed it is a SEMI AUTO (not pump) 12 gauge for a large man and a 16 gauge semi-auto for a smaller person. But I think he makes a good point. I started thinking about this actually for a .22 pellet gun I bought - full auto. Only 600 feet per second and a pellet is much lighter than a typical bullet. But there is no recoil to speak of and someone getting at the blur of a full auto probably isn't going want to keep charging at it - and in 95% of the USA there is no permit of any kind necessary for a pellet gun, plus most places silencers on them are legal too.
So, then, what about a .22LR semi-auto rifle? Without the barrel lift recoil a person could accurately sling FAR more bullets on target than a pump 12 gauge or any revolver.
Every video I've seen of a robbery or home invasions - even if the robber/invader is armed - it seems if the would-be victim starts shooting at the criminal, the criminal runs. That is his contention. Merely shooting at the "bad guy" makes him run - and you are far more likely to have multiple hits with a .22 rifle than any other firearm.
I think he makes a good point. Do you think there is validity in his claim? That the size of the bullet isn't what matters - rather merely having a firearm and then chances of hitting the target? The more bullets, the more likelihood of a hit.
This fella claims he did a study of actual shootings and found that it was basically irrelevant what type firearm a person has in nearly any instance. With that, he points to how fast a person can fire an ordinary .22LR semi-auto rifle accurately compared to other firearms.
Best home defense weapon? Surprise, it's not a shotgun! - YouTube
His "study"
An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association
I've always claimed it is a SEMI AUTO (not pump) 12 gauge for a large man and a 16 gauge semi-auto for a smaller person. But I think he makes a good point. I started thinking about this actually for a .22 pellet gun I bought - full auto. Only 600 feet per second and a pellet is much lighter than a typical bullet. But there is no recoil to speak of and someone getting at the blur of a full auto probably isn't going want to keep charging at it - and in 95% of the USA there is no permit of any kind necessary for a pellet gun, plus most places silencers on them are legal too.
So, then, what about a .22LR semi-auto rifle? Without the barrel lift recoil a person could accurately sling FAR more bullets on target than a pump 12 gauge or any revolver.
Every video I've seen of a robbery or home invasions - even if the robber/invader is armed - it seems if the would-be victim starts shooting at the criminal, the criminal runs. That is his contention. Merely shooting at the "bad guy" makes him run - and you are far more likely to have multiple hits with a .22 rifle than any other firearm.
I think he makes a good point. Do you think there is validity in his claim? That the size of the bullet isn't what matters - rather merely having a firearm and then chances of hitting the target? The more bullets, the more likelihood of a hit.
This fella claims he did a study of actual shootings and found that it was basically irrelevant what type firearm a person has in nearly any instance. With that, he points to how fast a person can fire an ordinary .22LR semi-auto rifle accurately compared to other firearms.
Best home defense weapon? Surprise, it's not a shotgun! - YouTube
His "study"
An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association
I've always claimed it is a SEMI AUTO (not pump) 12 gauge for a large man and a 16 gauge semi-auto for a smaller person. But I think he makes a good point. I started thinking about this actually for a .22 pellet gun I bought - full auto. Only 600 feet per second and a pellet is much lighter than a typical bullet. But there is no recoil to speak of and someone getting at the blur of a full auto probably isn't going want to keep charging at it - and in 95% of the USA there is no permit of any kind necessary for a pellet gun, plus most places silencers on them are legal too.
So, then, what about a .22LR semi-auto rifle? Without the barrel lift recoil a person could accurately sling FAR more bullets on target than a pump 12 gauge or any revolver.
Every video I've seen of a robbery or home invasions - even if the robber/invader is armed - it seems if the would-be victim starts shooting at the criminal, the criminal runs. That is his contention. Merely shooting at the "bad guy" makes him run - and you are far more likely to have multiple hits with a .22 rifle than any other firearm.
I think he makes a good point. Do you think there is validity in his claim? That the size of the bullet isn't what matters - rather merely having a firearm and then chances of hitting the target? The more bullets, the more likelihood of a hit.
I am a manly man. I would never miss an intruder.
I probably wouldn't miss, but I probably wouldn't have my gun handy either, ergo the best defense I have is a few mean ass stranger hating dogs that will give me time to get the gun out, find my cape, and squeeze into my speedo
Agree with the mean dog - the rest is quite creepy! :mrgreen:
Well, sometimes my underroos are dirty and I have to improvise :2razz:
Have had po-po tell me some funny stories about how scared pootless most people are of the dogs. They have on occasion faked people out of hiding by making them think they were releasing the k-9's on them by going through the motions and then barking like dogs and making a bunch of noise when the K-9's were not really on scene.
This fella claims he did a study of actual shootings and found that it was basically irrelevant what type firearm a person has in nearly any instance. With that, he points to how fast a person can fire an ordinary .22LR semi-auto rifle accurately compared to other firearms.
Best home defense weapon? Surprise, it's not a shotgun! - YouTube
His "study"
An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association
I've always claimed it is a SEMI AUTO (not pump) 12 gauge for a large man and a 16 gauge semi-auto for a smaller person. But I think he makes a good point. I started thinking about this actually for a .22 pellet gun I bought - full auto. Only 600 feet per second and a pellet is much lighter than a typical bullet. But there is no recoil to speak of and someone getting at the blur of a full auto probably isn't going want to keep charging at it - and in 95% of the USA there is no permit of any kind necessary for a pellet gun, plus most places silencers on them are legal too.
So, then, what about a .22LR semi-auto rifle? Without the barrel lift recoil a person could accurately sling FAR more bullets on target than a pump 12 gauge or any revolver.
Every video I've seen of a robbery or home invasions - even if the robber/invader is armed - it seems if the would-be victim starts shooting at the criminal, the criminal runs. That is his contention. Merely shooting at the "bad guy" makes him run - and you are far more likely to have multiple hits with a .22 rifle than any other firearm.
I think he makes a good point. Do you think there is validity in his claim? That the size of the bullet isn't what matters - rather merely having a firearm and then chances of hitting the target? The more bullets, the more likelihood of a hit.
Yeah, well... that's lovely IF we're talking about a scenario where the BG is the sort to be scared off by gunfire, or where the BG retreating is even a viable option.
I'm not particularly fond of betting my life on such assumptions.
.22LR, regardless of the difficulty in treating wounds from that caliber in some cases, is a PISS POOR MAN STOPPER.
That says it all to me.
If the scumbag ISN'T scared off instantly by gunfire... if he keeps coming or SHOOTS BACK.... I want something I can rely on to put a big enough hole in him that he was STOP, DROP and CEASE his action with one or two well-placed shots.
That involves things like handguns of .40+ caliber or "magnum" on the rim, shotgun shells with "OO" on them, and so on.
Did the guy also mention just how often a fast-shooting rimfire may jam, FF or stovepipe? There's that too...
This just gets a big whopping NO from me, for too many life-risking assumptions and dubious conclusions,.
I have to agree with the OP. I'm a target shooter mostly and have done a lot of research on 22lr and different ammunition, from 25 yards out to 150 yards, over 30 different types of ammo, chronograph, penetration, accuracy, production consistency, well you get the picture. Everybody has their thing, and mine is 22lr rifles.
Any defensive instructor will tell you shot placement is key. With a 22 that's easy, and follow up shots are just as easy. At 25 yards I can dump a 25 round magazine on an 8 inch target in under 4 seconds. You know what size that group is in your living room?
Ammo choices: for penetration the best is the Aguila Interceptor. At 1470 feet per second it is the fastest 40 grain 22lr round on the market and the hardest hitting. I chronoed them at 1448 fps out of a carbine with an 18.5 inch barrel. At 25 yards they consistently go thru 1 1/2 steel drums. The exit holes look the same as 9mm holes, as they should since the collected bullets average 38 grains and are sharp edged 10mm discs.
Perhaps more interesting is fragmentation. My favorites are the CCI SEGMENTED hollowpoints. The are lighter at 32 grains and faster at 1640 feet per second. The interesting thing about these rounds is they are prefractured in to 3 equal sized pieces and create 3 separate wound channels. You take a handful of those and it's not important what the exit wounds look like, those wound channels are not straight. Your internals have the consistency of course ground sausage. You are not going to survive it. It is not like plugging a thru and thru hole or even controlling bleeding from a mushroomed hollowpoints. The channels are random. You get shot in the chest with one and the pieces could end up anywhere. You may have one in your leg, one in you neck and one in your arm. It just depends what they bounce off of. BTW the speed of sound is roughly 1130 feet per second. You do the math. Tiny little supersonic random sharp edged objects. Any of you size queens want to step up for a demonstration? I've shot them in to hams at various distances and then cut them open. It's a mess and there is considerable bone fragmentation.
Not to say I don't have other choices. I have a 12 gauge pump, it has 00 buck in it. I have larger pistols too. But the shot to kill ratio on handgun rounds all the way up to .45cap is more than one and less than two. Even if the .45 is 1.1 (it is) and the 22lr is 1.6 ( it is) you are still pulling the trigger twice. With the 22 shot placement is near perfect, fast, and I can still hear.
Like I said I have other choices. My 00 shells are short. They are made by Aguila and have 6 shots in them (there are 9 in a normal one) and they have less powder behind them to avoid over penetration. On the up side my 5 shot Mossy will hold 7 of them, or 9 of the shortly slugs. Assuming my wife remembers the racking thumb safety on the left side and doesn't stand there fumbling with trying to load a shell that's fine. But we're all intimately familiar with 10 22s. People don't fly back off their feet when they get shot like in the movies. If you've been shot you are not aware of whether it was a 22 or a 9mm. Did you see how fast the guy in the video was unloading those shots on target? That was about right. With the 22 you have just been shot and you are still being shot. Whatever was on your mind is gone and you are not on task.
I agree about the #8. A friend of mine on shotgun target rounds:
"A shot from a 12 gauge at close range carries about 3 times the energy of a .45. A shotgun target round has about 85% of what 00 does. So you are taking 15% off of 3 rounds of .45. By all means use the target rounds."
... and you can shoot a man center-of-mass ten times with a 22LR and he may well still be able to return fire.... that is reality, it happens in the real world.
Its far less likely that he will return fire if he takes TWO doses of 12ga buck or .45 jhp in his center of mass.
22LR may kill, but it sucks at stopping.
Once upon a time, my niece dated an Olympic shotgun competitor. We had a conversation about shotgun pellet size, and he opined that he didn't understand why cops used buck shot instead of #8 shot, since the latter gave you a better pattern.... I said "because we're trying to blow large holes in men who are trying to kill us, not break a clay pidgeon." That's the diff...
the Olympic guy tried that argument with me. My reply can be summed up in one word: penetration. Buck goes deep, number 8 not so much. Energy transfer is only one factor.
the Olympic guy tried that argument with me. My reply can be summed up in one word: penetration. Buck goes deep, number 8 not so much. Energy transfer is only one factor.
One reason I prefer a pump shotgun for self defense is that in the right situation just the sound of racking the gun is enough to deter a home invasion without ever needing to actually fire the weapon. I had someone break a window in my apartment trying to break in, when he heard that his hand flew out the window so fast I don't see how he didn't get cut on the broken glass. If he were to continue to try and come in I would have been confident that the 00 shot would have permanently prevented him from ever making that mistake again. I also keep a .40 beside the bed in the event I cant make it to the shotty.
Well... that's one theory. You've got good weapons anyway... but I just don't like the notion of not having a round under the hammer ready to go, or having to rack the slide first. To each his own.
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