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Curious alternative few of best home defense firearm [W:116]

There are likely more instances of voter fraud than there are school shooting, and yet those on the left want guns banned. I'm listening to the news right now, there was a gunman in a school near Atlanta, no one hurt and the shooter was taken in to custody without incident. The kids are being bussed to a nearby WalMart where the parents can pick them up. The parents have to show a photo ID to get their kids. I hope they all have one. Then they could show it before they vote.

Oh wait, you don't need an ID to vote. Makes sense.
 
It's not carrying a gun...it's the assumption that the threat is there 24/7. I am actually PRO-GUN.....I've said that already in this very thread. I just do not agree with SYG laws....it's way too easy to kill someone you don't like by way of saying "I felt threatened".

.....


As a former LEO, I assure you the potential for a criminal threat does indeed exist 24/7, and is no respecter of persons, "safe" places, or circumstances. Just as a traffic accident may occur at any moment in any location, so too may violent crime find you anytime, and anywhere.

Granted, the actual odds vary quite a bit... but the consequences of suffering a violent criminal assault unprepared to offer defense can be most severe... life-altering, if not life-ending. It's similar to what is spoken of in intel analysis as a "black swan event"... something so unlikely it is hard for many to even consider, but which IF it happens can have consequences so severe that preparing for it is prudent despite the odds being against it. Businesses use this principle in preparing to weather unexpected crises of various and even exotic varieties.

In a way it is much like insurance. You hope you don't need it, but you have it anyway. Why? Better to need it and not have it, than have it and not need it... because of the potential consequences of needing it and not having it. To expand on that analogy, you would probably not look favorably on health insurance that didn't cover accidents that occur away from home now would you? Nor life insurance that only pays out if you die between the hours of 8pm and 8am... too risky.

Those whose appreciation and analysis of their risk of violent crime, who have concluded that they need to be prepared for same, have often also realized that there is no time or place that can really be considered "safe".

As a former LEO, I can tell you that it amuses me, in a grim sort of way, to hear people say "Oh my neighborhood is safe, nothing ever happens around here." If I feel it is worth the bother, sometimes I will ask them where they live... and then give them a litany of serious crimes that have happened in or near their neighborhood, which they've typically either forgotten about or never heard of in the first place.


As for the misnamed and much-misunderstood "Stand your Ground" laws, they vary greatly from state to state..,. in most states it simply removes a legal duty to retreat before using lethal force in self-defense, which provision has long needed removing as an unfeasible burden placed on the law-abiding citizen who already has his hands full trying to deal with a sudden and life-threatening crime event.
 
anti gunners and those who fret and worry about concealed carry think there is a safety trade off caused by honest people packing. These worriers think that if you carry a weapon you are more likely to contribute to illegal violence (or even legal violence which many of them oppose since they don't think its right for a criminal to be shot plying his trade) than you are to prevent crime.

That is the sort of silliness we deal with when arguing with the disarmament advocates
 
No the analogy is outta whack, me and the wife have paid car insurance every month for 30 years and never had claim
my P-226 doesn't cost me a dime unless you count the gun oil and such I need to keep it clean n tidy? ;)
hah so it amounts too FREE Insurance!
 
As a former LEO, I assure you the potential for a criminal threat does indeed exist 24/7, and is no respecter of persons, "safe" places, or circumstances. Just as a traffic accident may occur at any moment in any location, so too may violent crime find you anytime, and anywhere.

Granted, the actual odds vary quite a bit... but the consequences of suffering a violent criminal assault unprepared to offer defense can be most severe... life-altering, if not life-ending. It's similar to what is spoken of in intel analysis as a "black swan event"... something so unlikely it is hard for many to even consider, but which IF it happens can have consequences so severe that preparing for it is prudent despite the odds being against it. Businesses use this principle in preparing to weather unexpected crises of various and even exotic varieties.

In a way it is much like insurance. You hope you don't need it, but you have it anyway. Why? Better to need it and not have it, than have it and not need it... because of the potential consequences of needing it and not having it. To expand on that analogy, you would probably not look favorably on health insurance that didn't cover accidents that occur away from home now would you? Nor life insurance that only pays out if you die between the hours of 8pm and 8am... too risky.

Those whose appreciation and analysis of their risk of violent crime, who have concluded that they need to be prepared for same, have often also realized that there is no time or place that can really be considered "safe".

As a former LEO, I can tell you that it amuses me, in a grim sort of way, to hear people say "Oh my neighborhood is safe, nothing ever happens around here." If I feel it is worth the bother, sometimes I will ask them where they live... and then give them a litany of serious crimes that have happened in or near their neighborhood, which they've typically either forgotten about or never heard of in the first place.


As for the misnamed and much-misunderstood "Stand your Ground" laws, they vary greatly from state to state..,. in most states it simply removes a legal duty to retreat before using lethal force in self-defense, which provision has long needed removing as an unfeasible burden placed on the law-abiding citizen who already has his hands full trying to deal with a sudden and life-threatening crime event.

VERY WELL WRITTEN! :applaudI agree with every word of it.
 
How many street cars off the show room are running sub 3.0 60 ft?
I ran Division 2 NHRA for 20 years. 10.80 car that ran 2.10s 60 ft. 3800lbs all steel save for the hood and deck, Monte Carlo SS.
How many cars are in the 10s off the show room?
"Modern" tech has nothing to do with drag racing. Traction control is a killer of ET.
Ever had a car drift to the center line or the guardrail at over 100 mph, or pull the wheels to the point where you are only seeing sky? OR had anohter racer lose it and cross over in to your lane?
Then try to contol all that on thin side wall slicks on the back with 4" wide tires on the front?
Race long enough and road racing and circle track racing is for kids.
Hard core heads up drag racing is where its at.

Pondering taking the car my wife got me that currently in the paint shop to a track for exact 1/4th mile et legal (ie "keep it off the street"), I learned that for amateur racing, the NHRA is basically for old guys racing slow antique cars. The car we're working up - and it's 8/9 years old now, totally DOT and EPA legal, quiet and mods that don't even crack open the motor is TOO FAST for NHRA amateur racing. ALL super cars now basically are. Not to divert from this thread again, I started a thread on the NHRA on the sports board.

I suppose I could pull a spark plug or two to slow it down enough to NHRA racing. :roll:

(I won't post more on this topic on this thread though).
 
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Pondering taking the car my wife got me that currently in the paint shop to a track for exact 1/4th mile et legal (ie "keep it off the street"), I learned that for amateur racing, the NHRA is basically for old guys racing slow antique cars. The car we're working up - and it's 8/9 years old now, totally DOT and EPA legal, quiet and mods that don't even crack open the motor is TOO FAST for NHRA amateur racing. ALL super cars now basically are. Not to divert from this thread again, I started a thread on the NHRA on the sports board.

I suppose I could pull a spark plug or two to slow it down enough to NHRA racing. :roll:

(I won't post more on this topic on this thread though).
Please dont, your ignorance of cars is pathetic. You know absolutely nothing about the NHRA. Now if you have something that runs, bring it.
 
Please dont, your ignorance of cars is pathetic. You know absolutely nothing about the NHRA. Now if you have something that runs, bring it.

Read the NHRA rule book.

I suspect I know more about cars in general and more about modern cars. You probably know more about outdated antique cars. Let me guess... all the cars you raced had carburetors, right?
 
REALLY fast cars! Not like today's modern cars. :lamo

MR_model-t-final-larry-blair-took-win-23-142-et-IMG_0011.jpg
 
REALLY fast cars! Not like today's modern cars. :lamo

MR_model-t-final-larry-blair-took-win-23-142-et-IMG_0011.jpg

So, they are on a drag strip? So what? All kind of tracks offer rentals to run clubs, specialty cars, shootouts and special events not associated with the NHRA.
 
So, they are on a drag strip? So what? All kind of tracks offer rentals to run clubs, specialty cars, shootouts and special events not associated with the NHRA.

No, to run on an NHRA track a person has to follow NHRA speed restriction rules. Did you ever actually read NHRA rules?
 
No, to run on an NHRA track a person has to follow NHRA speed restriction rules. Did you ever actually read NHRA rules?

There are no speed restrictions. Fuel cars unlimited. Well over 300 in 1000 ft.
Only "restrictions" are in bracket racing where you are categorized by times. Pro, Super Pro, ET and the like.
I have read many years rule books and built cars to those specs. What is your point?
You are also restricted to speeds depending on the level of safety equipment. Or you think a track is going to let you run 9s with no roll cage?
 
There are no speed restrictions. Fuel cars unlimited. Well over 300 in 1000 ft.
Only "restrictions" are in bracket racing where you are categorized by times. Pro, Super Pro, ET and the like.
I have read many years rule books and built cars to those specs. What is your point?
You are also restricted to speeds depending on the level of safety equipment. Or you think a track is going to let you run 9s with no roll cage?

Roll cage. :lamo

How many cars on the Autobaum doing 190 mph have a "roll cage?"

That's an example of "only slow cars need apply" at NHRA tracks and why I point it they really are for racing antique cars that probably need roll cages since once past 50 mph they are basically death traps.

But, then, it is called the National HOTROD Association, so I suppose having it for old hotrods fits the title. It's like the National Association of COLORED people. Old people living in the past.

I do want to overstate what I am claiming. It simply is that modern state-of-the-art high performance cars in fact will go into the 9s with very little modifications and while still in DOT, EPA and full dress with all options street legal form. A couple decades ago, no such manufactured car existed. Now they do.

There are some folks I'm on forums with - super car forums - for which they basically get 1 try at a drag strip (virtually all are NHRA) for which they lie about what they think their car can do. At the end of the run they get cursed out and banned for doing a high 9 or surpassing 150 mph.

The difference in terms of performance (I've been to may drag races at tracks, never in one) is the "bracket racers" with huge tires, super low ratio rear gears, and lightened up with plex and stripping it inside and out ready hit it coming off the line. Street cars can't because they lack the tires. But what modern street cars do is the are come-back kids. Most non-pro track-only cars are 0-90 kings. Modern cars are 60 to 150 kings.

Without cracking open the motor and even with full cat-convertors and 3 full mufflers and full exhaust, the only question on the CL65 she/we are working up - a full size luxury car with a curb weight with 1 driver and half a tank of gas will be right at 5,000 lbs. The question of the ET will be whether it is 10.2 or 9.9. And over or under 150.
On street tires as it sits now? An identical car in every way EXCEPT the other one is down 50 horsepower and down about 75 ft/lbs torque does 10.27 at 138 mph.

When the Mickey Thompsons go on, the launch control reprogrammed for those, and the tranny tweaked some, it'll be close. 9.9 and 150+ is her goal - because her goal is to best the new ZR1 - and that's no easy trick. BUT this Merc ("Mercedes" now has the "Merc" name, not Mercury anymore), will be entirely street with all that comes with that including all luxury items.

Modern performance cars are increasingly FAST, particularly since do now come with turbos and superchargers. Nearly ALL are greatly downtuned by the manufacturers for warranty reasons - and tires traction limited mainly do to needing to get at least 25,000 miles out of them. It takes very little to turn them into 10 second cars, with 9 seconds not the far off or difficult to obtain.

While those are costly cars (no, not $500,000 as you suggest), their prices fall used like everything else. She'll/we'll have less than the price of a new Camero Z28 - and that includes having it completely taken down body-wise for a showcar repaint and some body customization - and it's going on 9 years old. It was a watershed design in '05, one of the models leading to the next generation super-cars - all of which are at least 11 second cars and become 10 second cars merely by reprogramming - and very low 10s if the go to performance tires and other very modest upgrades.

My point is the NHRA is behind the times on safety. The roof structures of modern high performance cars likely exceed the protection of a "roll cage" - and unlike the boxy, simplistic interiors of the past do not lend themselves to installing a roll cage without severely gutting the interior, inhibiting entrance/exit, and inhibiting visibility - plus people aren't going to do it to their street cars for obvious reason.

Each year is going to bring faster high performance cars and each year is going to add another year to those already made being used cars.

The NHRA should rethink it's safety rules in relation to modern cars' structural designs and the modern cars' safety features, unless they want amateur drag racing to increasingly being just old guys driving old cars.
 
The custom car shop where it's being repainted does LOTS of old muscle cars and hot rods, including some really built up one. He finished a tricked out '69 Nova with a 427 emblem (actually a 502) with a blower last week. Beautiful. Probably only a high 10 car as he didn't want to tube out the rear wheel wells with narrowed axles.

For the '05 CL65 Mercedes we took there, his initial impression was that it is a big luxury coupe that will probably ultimately get rolling pretty fast with a V12 - until he started researching it. And the basically factory recommended performance mods to it. On what are relatively skinny longlife (hard) tires for it's weight it's at least 10.5 and one somewhat down from it on horsepower has a documented 10.37. After research it and inspecting it too, he exclaimed "technologically it's a starship compared to other cars" he works on. Just putting 1 1/2 wider M/Ts and reprogramming launch control (built into it's design) puts it at or below 10 seconds, depending on how well the person launches to the light and whether forward or back staged. It'll be close. Add Nitrous? And easy sub-10. Full size luxury cruiser. Doesn't look like a 10 second car. But it is. And it will do it by coming on like a gang-buster the second half of the 1/4th, putting it over 150 mph. The old bracket racers will still beat it the first 100 feet. There are a lot of cars like that now as off the assembly line.

It is not unique, and it take little thought to grasp that it's competitors by all the manufacturers that have since come along and at 1000+ lbs lighter are PLENTY quick - once reprogrammed.

The NHRA is falling behind times in terms of the rapid advances in automobile design and technology. And safety. So are you. So was I until I started researching MODERN performance cars. Performance cars today have little in common with performance cars made just 10 years ago.
 
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I quit reading at you laughing at roll cage.
You build a car to specs, race it for 20 years then get back to me.
No factory car can withstand top end speed crashes and keep the occupants safe without cages and harnesses.
Oh, and I didnt hear you say anything about picking up a wrench or welder and doing anything yourself.
And learn how to spell Autobahn.
 
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I quit reading at you laughing at roll cage.
You build a car to specs, race it for 20 years then get back to me.
No factory car can withstand top end speed crashes and keep the occupants safe without cages and harnesses.
Oh, and I didnt hear you say anything about picking up a wrench or welder and doing anything yourself.
And learn how to spell Autobahn.

It would appear you are unwilling to either discuss or debate a topic.
 
The custom car shop where it's being repainted does LOTS of old muscle cars and hot rods, including some really built up one. He finished a tricked out '69 Nova with a 427 emblem (actually a 502) with a blower last week. Beautiful. Probably only a high 10 car as he didn't want to tube out the rear wheel wells with narrowed axles.
10.5 Record is in the low 7s. So only running 10 because he dont want to tub it means its just not a competitive car.
 
It would appear you are unwilling to either discuss or debate a topic.

What is to discuss? You think that a factory car is safe enough to race at highspeed. You are wrong and there are numerous racing sanctioning bodies that say so.
IHRA, NHRA, IMSA, NASCAR, ADRL, F1, WOW to name a few.
 
What is to discuss? You think that a factory car is safe enough to race at highspeed. You are wrong and there are numerous racing sanctioning bodies that say so.
IHRA, NHRA, IMSA, NASCAR, ADRL, F1, WOW to name a few.

I'm specifically referring to amateur drag racing, not road course racing.
 
I'm specifically referring to amateur drag racing, not road course racing.

NHRA, IHRA, ADRL all the various fast street car shoot out series are professional drag racing series.
They all must follow series and sactioning body rules as well as track rules as far as safety equipment.
 
Thought you might like this video...

1 kilometer drag racing (5/8ths mile). Russia. There are piles of videos of these pitting almost all different manner of street cars - most though are modern. 1/8th and 1/4th mile drag racing limits are very American.





This is my favorite as the other car (left lane) is the same model as ours, though that one a fair amount less HP and torque.

 
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I dont see your point.
There is all kinds of racing and all sanctioning bodies have rules with regard to safety.
 
Eh, forget about making "points." There are almost no motorheads on the forum anyway, not really. I'm just posting about performance cars and drag racing.
 
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