• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Couldn't agree more.

SMTA

Ketsu no anna
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
33,949
Reaction score
8,299
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
So your not ashamed of what conservatives have done? Of how they politicized a young mans death?

Both sides have done wrong here.

You can't be serious!

The MSM and the left has idolized this kid who was banging another man's head into the concrete.

Martin;s behavior resulted in his own death, which was substantiated by the not guilty verdict.
 

SheWolf

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
36,409
Reaction score
13,028
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
Having a fair trial is never a miscarriage of justice.

This was the attitude on fox. Put political spin on it, and republicans didn't even want to see a black kid's killer stand trial.

It's all around disgusting. Zimmerman's rights were not stripped away from him.



We know which side of the political spectrum wanted this trial that should never have been a trial.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,241
Reaction score
19,930
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
You can't be serious!

The MSM and the left has idolized this kid who was banging another man's head into the concrete.

Martin;s behavior resulted in his own death, which was substantiated by the not guilty verdict.

And that was wrong too. Both sides have done wrong, that's the whole point.
 

Dapper Andy

Banned
Joined
Feb 28, 2013
Messages
913
Reaction score
310
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It isn't hard to make up a scenerio where it almost might have been. There are just no facts to support it.

They come face-to-face as Zimmerman says, Trayvon Martin asks, "Why are you following me?" And Zimmerman reaches for his cell phone. (As Zimmerman stated.) Trayvon Martin figures he's reaching for a weapon . . . he's already on alert because Zimmerman's been tailing him . . . and, in self defense, he throws the first punch -- and keeps on throttling him because he's in fear for his life.

We'll never know if that happened; that's not what the facts support, and there are a number of problems with this theory, but it could have happened just that way. This case has been a cluster**** since Jump Street.

I believe Zimmerman's account because when Serino told him there was video of the event? Zimmerman said, "Thank God!"

But even if true, Martin's actions went from self defense to assault to potentially manslaughter if he continued unabated.

That half the country seems to be justifying that level of violence because "he followed him!" seems absurd.

Justice is a two way street. The left has gone crazy over Zimmerman taking matters into his own hands while ignoring Martin doing the same. Zimmerman should have allowed the police to handle it but so should Martin. Unfortunately, Martin happened to be the one who committed the actual crime as he took matters into his own hands. I find it very bizarre that the left seems so intent on ignoring that.
 

Caine

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
23,359
Reaction score
7,218
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Having a fair trial is never a miscarriage of justice.

This was the attitude on fox. Put political spin on it, and republicans didn't even want to see a black kid's killer stand trial.

It's all around disgusting. Zimmerman's rights were not stripped away from him.

What does it have to do with republicans?

And... by its very nature an arrest strips a person of their right to freedom.

By its very nature a house arrest gps monitor anklet strips a person of their right to freedom.

So yes, he was.
 

opendebate

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
7,317
Reaction score
2,926
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
How about then we discuss what this whole mess was REALLY about. Racism in this country. Not that Z is a racist, I don't know him and would never make that claim. But it presented itself through this trial because of the history of racism in this country. You can scream all you want about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton but at the end of the day thousands of people do not join together in protest over something that doesn't really exist.

Please don't right me off as a big spending liberal or ....whatever...you do not yet know my views. I joined this site because I am a very open minded person. I enjoy a good challenge. I truly believe that intelligent, informed people exist on both sides of the isle. I also believe that truly good people exist on both sides. There are no bad guys. I had hoped to have, passionate perhaps, but real discussions with people who I KNOW have a different opinion than me. So far.....very disappointing. Do you think it is possible.?
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
And that was wrong too. Both sides have done wrong, that's the whole point.

No they have not. One side supported the law and justice. One side supported lying, and charging an innocent (now official) man with a crime for nothing but political bullshxt. Sorry both sides were not wrong here.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,241
Reaction score
19,930
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
No they have not. One side supported the law and justice. One side supported lying, and charging an innocent (now official) man with a crime for nothing but political bullshxt. Sorry both sides were not wrong here.

Sad you can't see it. :shrug:
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
How about then we discuss what this whole mess was REALLY about. Racism in this country. Not that Z is a racist, I don't know him and would never make that claim. But it presented itself through this trial because of the history of racism in this country. You can scream all you want about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton but at the end of the day thousands of people do not join together in protest over something that doesn't really exist.

Please don't right me off as a big spending liberal or ....whatever...you do not yet know my views. I joined this site because I am a very open minded person. I enjoy a good challenge. I truly believe that intelligent, informed people exist on both sides of the isle. I also believe that truly good people exist on both sides. There are no bad guys. I had hoped to have, passionate perhaps, but real discussions with people who I KNOW have a different opinion than me. So far.....very disappointing. Do you think it is possible.?

No it was not racist until the media and President made it about race for no reason, none. It was politically motivated, period. Anything else is just hogwash.
 

SMTA

Ketsu no anna
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
33,949
Reaction score
8,299
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
And that was wrong too. Both sides have done wrong, that's the whole point.

Ah, good, I was inferring a nasty rant from you.

I had felt all along that SD was justified.

That does not mean that I have agreed with the coverage and opinions vetted - most of it was to sell papers and air time.

The public, uninformed as usual, and unwilling, as usual, to think for themselves, bought all the media BS lock, stock, and barrel.

Because of all the useless hyperbole from everybody, now we have a growing chasm of racial divide.

The only winners so far are those selling air time and print media.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,241
Reaction score
19,930
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Ah, good, I was inferring a nasty rant from you.

I had felt all along that SD was justified.

That does not mean that I have agreed with the coverage and opinions vetted - most of it was to sell papers and air time.

The public, uninformed as usual, and unwilling, as usual, to think for themselves, bought all the media BS lock, stock, and barrel.

Because of all the useless hyperbole from everybody, now we have a growing chasm of racial divide.

The only winners so far are those selling air time and print media.

Yeah, that was my whole point, the media coverage was disgusting, on both sides.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,241
Reaction score
19,930
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
No I can see it, but it is irrelevant where the law is concerned, period.

Did I say anything else? Did you not read where I said I agreed with the ruling?

Doesn't mean that I can't be disgusted with the media over their coverage.
 

SMTA

Ketsu no anna
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
33,949
Reaction score
8,299
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Yeah, that was my whole point, the media coverage was disgusting, on both sides.

My best analogy is that is was like watching an F-5 tornado suck up everything in it's path, and only leaving destruction.

In addition, we, again, look like complete idiots to the rest of the world.

We have met the enemy, and it is us.....
 

opendebate

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
7,317
Reaction score
2,926
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
No it was not racist until the media and President made it about race for no reason, none. It was politically motivated, period. Anything else is just hogwash.

You misunderstand. I am not saying the case was about racism. I am saying the reason it became a racially charged discussion is because racism is a real problem in this country. Is that more clear.
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Did I say anything else? Did you not read where I said I agreed with the ruling?

Doesn't mean that I can't be disgusted with the media over their coverage.

The media coverage from Fox or the right was just fine. Of course the way the fat girl was treated was bad but nowhere close to what MSNBC etc did. Not even close. Making fun of one witness compared to hyping up racist bigotry? Yea I mean really tell me which is just stupid and which is dangerous and deserves disgust.
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
You misunderstand. I am not saying the case was about racism. I am saying the reason it became a racially charged discussion is because racism is a real problem in this country. Is that more clear.

That is exactly what I am disagreeing with. Institutional racism in the US is pretty much dead. It exists in some places, but all in all blacks can achieve whatever we want including becoming president. The major problem in this country for me is the political divide. It is much wider and much more dangerous in the long run.
 

SheWolf

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
36,409
Reaction score
13,028
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
Making it a national issue isn't inherently wrong. Making it a political issue and forgetting the real human tragedy only adds to the tragedy.

Zimmerman got death threats, and Trayvon has been demonized beyond anything necessary. It shows America has race issues, we can't talk about race, and we lack tolerance for the opposing political party.

it's disgusting

YS, who was it that made this entire event a national story?
 

Dezaad

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Messages
5,057
Reaction score
2,424
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
You know if you are going to blow smoke up my ass, at least give me the benefit of a reach around. This has nothing to do with those on Zimmerman's side being assholes. We are and were correct in that the evidence did not AND STILL DOES NOT show a crime was committed on his part. That is the extent of what we did. Now that it's over you start the whole "well both sides" No, HELL NO.

Martin supporters made **** up and out and out lied. Now that it's over... Both sides my ass.

Eat your sour grapes and like em.

Nope. I said very early on that they were both at fault. And I dropped out of paying to much attention because it was frustrating to read the hyperbole on both sides, especially here. I was just naturally more upset about Zimmerman's fault in the matter because the other dumb**** had already lost his life. I still believe that. So, yeah, Hell yeah. There are a lot of assholes on both sides.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,241
Reaction score
19,930
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
The media coverage from Fox or the right was just fine. Of course the way the fat girl was treated was bad but nowhere close to what MSNBC etc did. Not even close. Making fun of one witness compared to hyping up racist bigotry? Yea I mean really tell me which is just stupid and which is dangerous and deserves disgust.

No it wasn't just fine, they were using a teen's death to further their own political agenda. Both sides were doing it, and it is both equally disgusting.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,241
Reaction score
19,930
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Making it a national issue isn't inherently wrong. Making it a political issue and forgetting the real human tragedy only adds to the tragedy.

Zimmerman got death threats, and Trayvon has been demonized beyond anything necessary. It shows America has race issues, we can't talk about race, and we lack tolerance for the opposing political party.

it's disgusting

Couldn't agree more.
 

SheWolf

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
36,409
Reaction score
13,028
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Other
Her quote in OP says it. Depending on your party, you act a certain way.

Conservatives blame black leaders, liberals, and the media. It's just typical political values coming out, per network news talking points.


Your Star, what have conservatives done? I don't understand that comment at all. How have they politicized his death? I don't get it. I know I was happy as a little clam with the Not Guilty verdict and felt like celebrating, but that was because I felt justice had been served -- and, because of the politicizing done by others, I fully expected them to find him guilty of the lesser charge. I celebrated justice.

Please tell us what Conservatives did to politicize this tragedy. It is the ACLU on a witch hunt. It's race baiters who refuse to accept the jury's verdict and think the sky has fallen. What have Conservatives done?
 

Caine

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
23,359
Reaction score
7,218
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
How about then we discuss what this whole mess was REALLY about. Racism in this country. Not that Z is a racist, I don't know him and would never make that claim. But it presented itself through this trial because of the history of racism in this country.
It presented itself throught the trial because race baiters made it an issue throughout the trial. There is NOTHING about this case that is racist. People who make a living off of creating a racial divide in this country threw in the bait and weak minded people took it, hook line and sinker.

You can scream all you want about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton but at the end of the day thousands of people do not join together in protest over something that doesn't really exist.
Weak Minded People do.


Please don't right me off as a big spending liberal or ....whatever...you do not yet know my views. I joined this site because I am a very open minded person. I enjoy a good challenge. I truly believe that intelligent, informed people exist on both sides of the isle. I also believe that truly good people exist on both sides. There are no bad guys. I had hoped to have, passionate perhaps, but real discussions with people who I KNOW have a different opinion than me. So far.....very disappointing. Do you think it is possible.?
Here is the thing.... when you go on to stamp this as a racial issue and your reason is "because of the history of racism in our country", it looks like a cop out. People want to push the racial issue, and people want to keep pushing it even when they know in their hearts this issue has nothing to do with race, so they drop in the old classic standby "history of racism".

News Flash. History doesn't change. There will ALWAYS be a "history of racism" in our country. But how does it apply to this case? It doesn't? Then why bring it into this case?

That is my question. How does the history of racism in this country correlate to this case?
 

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
16,141
Reaction score
21,236
Location
Mid-West USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
As for me, the thing I have learned from this trial is the type of folks I am in bed with when I support gun rights. I realized I was in bed with the crazies, I just didn't realize all the implications of that. Now it is just that much harder. It is really hard to support gun rights when the crazies you are consorting with are so incredibly irresponsible.

"In bed with the crazies" for supporting gun rights? That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?

There are always going to be extremists in any issue that is emotionally charged. But the Bed is big enough for them too. NO need to get OUT simply because you don't like everyone under the covers...just roll over closer to people you do find compatable and stick to your own rationales for supporting the issue.
 
Top Bottom