Congress: Iraq Pullout Vote Tonight

[MSgt]

The American people deserve to know what victory is in this war. Oh, and just saying, "We're staying until the job is done." doesn't cut it.

The exit strategy has already been laid. The Democratic Party want a timeline. Move past your political BS and acknowledge the situation. There will be a significant with drawl next year and the Iraqi military is doing much better than you obviously think.

The "American people" are STUPID if they think that they will get a clear cut "victory." This war on teror will last generations. Afghanistan and Iraq are battle fields. It will take generations for this civilization to change into a society that no longer produces "martyrs" and mass extremism. Success will never be final, but always a matter of degree - which is the difference between a bloody contest of civilizations and the routine ebb and flow of lesser conflicts.

So what you think "doesn't cut it" is simply a matter of what reality is going to give you.

 

[Navy Pride]

Murtha expressed his opinion on the matter, and the Republicans are trying to spin this into seeming that his position is the position of the entire Democratic party. This is inaccurate, and serves only to prove that the Republicans will do everything in their power to continue to mislead the American people.

The majority of the Democrats in the House and Senate have simply called for an exit strategy, which this administration has yet to provide. I personally think it is wrong to get a very specific timeline, but we should at least get some idea of when the troops we have there are going to be replaced with Iraqi troops. It was demanded of Clinton after only one month of combat in 1999, so why is it so difficult for this administration to provide one after two years?

The American people deserve to know what victory is in this war. Oh, and just saying, "We're staying until the job is done." doesn't cut it.

The president has said over and over again that we will leave Iraq when the Iraqis can handle the security there or if the elected government asks us to leave............That is the plan.....

As far as Clinton goes we were going to be in Bosnia for a year...That ws 10 years ago and we still have troops there..............

 

[26 X World Champs]

As far as Clinton goes we were going to be in Bosnia for a year...That ws 10 years ago and we still have troops there.

Hmmm...10 years you say? How many dead? ZERO? 5 soldiers died today in Iraq.

Ever hear of NATO? We're a minor part of a coalition force in Bosnia. We're almost alone in Iraq. The few countries who were with us in the beginning have gone home leaving us and the UK and the UK is in the south of Iraq away from the front lines.

You know Navy are you ever able to make a point without invoking your hero President Clinton or writing "you lefties"?

Clinton left office almost 5 years ago yet you ALWAYS write about him. Needless to say, or to be expected, what you write about him is WRONG, i.e. he's a rapist, he's a pedophile (you've written so often that Monica "was young enough to be his granddaughter), he's a pothead, he's a convicted criminal etc. Get over it Dude! He's no more a rapist than you are....

 

[MSgt]

HAHAHAHAHA!!! I KNEW IT!!!

I knew that when I saw you were replying to this thread, that you were going to reply to Navy Pride. It never fails. You two follow each other around (I've been watching) the forum and jab each other like it's cool. It's been going on for a looooong time and it is quite enjoyable.

.......And by the way, the countries that have pulled out of Iraq did so according to the terrorists demands. They have actually endangered their civillians for any future endeavor they undertake, because they know that they will negotiate. And since extremists never go away, there will be other undertakings in which Spain, Italy, and others are involved.

 

[26 X World Champs]

HAHAHAHAHA!!! I KNEW IT!!!

I knew that when I saw you were replying to this thread, that you were going to reply to Navy Pride. It never fails. You two follow each other around (I've been watching) the forum and jab each other like it's cool. It's been going on for a looooong time and it is quite enjoyable.

You're welcome! I enjoy it too though usually it is like shooting fish in a barrel. I just can't reconcile how any one person can post so many wrong facts time after time after time, it's mind boggling. It's also a hoot to read the same lame comments, you know, "you lefties", "Clinton's a rapist", "book it" "young enough to be his granddaughter". It's like the movie "Groundhog Day" where the same thing is posted by him day after day.

The question is what's more predictable? Old Faithful in Yellowstone or Old Navy Pride writing "you lefties"?

I will endeavor to keep you and myself amused in future posts.

 

[JustMyPOV]

The exit strategy has already been laid.

Where? Got something tangible on that? Or are we just supposed to take your word for it? Find me an article, a speech, or anything for that matter that's been anything more than incredibly vague, and then I'll be impressed. Also, if there is such a clear exit strategy then why was this in the news just 4 days ago?

"The GOP-controlled Senate rejected a Democratic call for a timetable for a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops in Iraq and, instead, chose to prod the president to outline a strategy for "the successful completion of the mission.""

From an AP article @ http://news.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=us/0-0&fp=4380fe1698c8b665&ei=HRWAQ9STGKmQFtyEgcAF&url=http%3A//www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf%3F/base/news-3/1132122303309720.xml%26coll%3D1&cid=0

The Democratic Party want a timeline.

I'd be happy with a coherent explanation as to what victory is in this instance. This administration has not been forthcoming with one as yet. Yeah, we know, train troops, but we've been training troops for quite some time now and haven't trained enough to allow the withdrawal a single American serviceman/servicewoman?

There will be a significant with drawl next year and the Iraqi military is doing much better than you obviously think.

I'm sure they're doing a fine job, but again, after all this time, not well enough, apparantly to bring any of our brave men and women home. Oh, and I'm quite sure that this significant withdrawal will occur at the perfect time to benefit the Republicans for next year's elections, touting a great victory all the way to the polls.

The "American people" are STUPID if they think that they will get a clear cut "victory." This war on teror will last generations. Afghanistan and Iraq are battle fields. It will take generations for this civilization to change into a society that no longer produces "martyrs" and mass extremism. Success will never be final, but always a matter of degree - which is the difference between a bloody contest of civilizations and the routine ebb and flow of lesser conflicts.

Clearly, the "American people" being stupid is exactly what the Republicans and this administration hope for to ensure their continued "success". Everyone knows that there won't be 100% stability when we exit, that is something that we've naturally come to expect from the Middle East. But at what degree of stability do they have to be before we can stop shelling out $100Billion/year, driving us further into debt, while the Iraqi people pay 6cents/gallon for gasoline, and don't seem to be assuming a whole lot of the costs involved in defending/rebuilding their own country?

 

[MSgt]

Where? Got something tangible on that? Or are we just supposed to take your word for it? Find me an article, a speech, or anything for that matter that's been anything more than incredibly vague, and then I'll be impressed. Also, if there is such a clear exit strategy then why was this in the news just 4 days ago?

"The GOP-controlled Senate rejected a Democratic call for a timetable for a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops in Iraq and, instead, chose to prod the president to outline a strategy for "the successful completion of the mission.""

From an AP article @ http://news.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=us/0-0&fp=4380fe1698c8b665&ei=HRWAQ9STGKmQFtyEgcAF&url=http%3A//www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf%3F/base/news-3/1132122303309720.xml%26coll%3D1&cid=0



I'd be happy with a coherent explanation as to what victory is in this instance. This administration has not been forthcoming with one as yet. Yeah, we know, train troops, but we've been training troops for quite some time now and haven't trained enough to allow the withdrawal a single American serviceman/servicewoman?



I'm sure they're doing a fine job, but again, after all this time, not well enough, apparantly to bring any of our brave men and women home. Oh, and I'm quite sure that this significant withdrawal will occur at the perfect time to benefit the Republicans for next year's elections, touting a great victory all the way to the polls.



Clearly, the "American people" being stupid is exactly what the Republicans and this administration hope for to ensure their continued "success". Everyone knows that there won't be 100% stability when we exit, that is something that we've naturally come to expect from the Middle East. But at what degree of stability do they have to be before we can stop shelling out $100Billion/year, driving us further into debt, while the Iraqi people pay 6cents/gallon for gasoline, and don't seem to be assuming a whole lot of the costs involved in defending/rebuilding their own country?

For the last time, there will not be a timeline. One can not be placed. It will all unfold next year and this has been stated numerous times. It doesn't take Bush to say it. You may take my word for it. Say, "not good enough" now, but next year, I expect a kiss upon my ass. Ask around. I haven't been wrong yet.

There are less Marines in Iraq this year than there was last year, so your "haven't trained enough to allow the withdrawal a single American serviceman/servicewoman" is trite.

As I predicted just 10 minutes ago in a converstaion with "Champs" Democrats will parade that our significant with drawl next year will be used to grandstand as a Republican tool for the Presidency, all the while claiming this as a tool for their own candidate. Congratulations...you were the first.

"what degree of stability do they have to be before we can stop shelling out $100Billion/year".....I don't know. How much is it worth to effectively encourage change in the Middle East so that more 9/11's don't occur? Oh yes...9/11 was the act of a few rogues of Middle Eastern Islam..right? Once we get Bin Ladden all will be well and the civilization that acts as a recruitment pool for numerous terrorist organizations will fix itself while it continues to digress. :roll:

 

[JustMyPOV]

The president has said over and over again that we will leave Iraq when the Iraqis can handle the security there or if the elected government asks us to leave............That is the plan.....

As far as Clinton goes we were going to be in Bosnia for a year...That ws 10 years ago and we still have troops there..............

Haha! Didn't I hear Vice President Cheney say that the war in Iraq could last weeks, maybe months? Didn't I hear President Bush declare victory from the flight deck of an aircraft carrier awhile back? And here we are, and just now, the Senate, controlled by his own party calling on him for an exit plan.

Hell, if we could get the number of our troops in Iraq pared down to the number we still had in Bosnia after two years, I think I'd probably agree with you that Bush was some great hero. Until then, I'm going to think that this operation was boched from the top, and thank God that our brave, fighting men and women are the best in the world, and have maintained the fight so damned well despite who is leading them. Please don't jump on me, either, for drawing parallels between two completely different and unrelated wars. You're the one who brought it up.

 

[teacher]

Explain this:

During the debate the last night we saw the Democrates read letters. From wives, children, family members of the troops in Iraq. Get our boys home, they all read. The Republicans also read letters. From troops in Iraq. Let us stay, let us finish the job, we do a good thing here.

Who you gonna believe?

I expect no reply to this.

 

[JustMyPOV]

For the last time, there will not be a timeline. One can not be placed. It will all unfold next year and this has been stated numerous times. It doesn't take Bush to say it. You may take my word for it. Say, "not good enough" now, but next year, I expect a kiss upon my ass. Ask around. I haven't been wrong yet.

There are less Marines in Iraq this year than there was last year, so your "haven't trained enough to allow the withdrawal a single American serviceman/servicewoman" is trite.

As I predicted just 10 minutes ago in a converstaion with "Champs" Democrats will parade that our significant with drawl next year will be used to grandstand as a Republican tool for the Presidency, all the while claiming this as a tool for their own candidate. Congratulations...you were the first.

"what degree of stability do they have to be before we can stop shelling out $100Billion/year".....I don't know. How much is it worth to effectively encourage change in the Middle East so that more 9/11's don't occur? Oh yes...9/11 was the act of a few rogues of Middle Eastern Islam..right? Once we get Bin Ladden all will be well and the civilization that acts as a recruitment pool for numerous terrorist organizations will fix itself while it continues to digress. :roll:

Ok, you still didn't answer my question as to the exit strategy. An exit strategy for the military ought to consist of more than a one liner in a political speech, don't you think? These are our people, our sons, brothers, sons and daughters over there dying for this cause, and you think that a one-liner in a political speech is an adequate exit strategy?

 

[JustMyPOV]

Explain this:

During the debate the last night we saw the Democrates read letters. From wives, children, family members of the troops in Iraq. Get our boys home, they all read. The Republicans also read letters. From troops in Iraq. Let us stay, let us finish the job, we do a good thing here.

Who you gonna believe?

I expect no reply to this.

I believe both, of course. Our troops have done one hell of a job, as I said, despite the flaws in the administration's war policy. That is why our elected officials are working to ensure that the exit strategy is not flawed and, for that matter, that one actually exists, so that they can come home safely to their families who miss them terribly.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Hay here's the deal that you morons don't seem to get is that Murtha had a resolution for the withdrawl of troops that he wanted put forward the Republicans said ok if you want this put through then we'll put it to a vote overwhelmingly his moronic resolution to pull out the troops was defeated almost unanimously, I don't give a **** if this guy is a congressional medal of honor winner his service record is not at issue here, what is at issue is that his resolution failed and now he's crying about it.

 

[teacher]

despite the flaws in the administration's war policy.

What flaws? Be specific.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Hay here's the deal that you morons don't seem to get is that Murtha had a resolution for the withdrawl of troops that he wanted put forward the Republicans said ok if you want this put through then we'll put it to a vote overwhelmingly his moronic resolution to pull out the troops was defeated almost unanimously, I don't give a **** if this guy is a congressional medal of honor winner his service record is not at issue here, what is at issue is that his resolution failed and now he's crying about it.

How can you be so wrong? It's shocking that you seem to have missed the point of all of this? Christ! Instead of calling people "morons" maybe you need to do some self-examination?

Let's see if we can overcome the reading comprehension issue and actually examine the exact wording of Murtha's proposed referendum vs. the words of the REPUBLICAN's PHONEY referendum? Read this first, slowly if you have to, or even read it more than once. Rep. Murtha proposed:

Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of American in Congress assembled, That:

Section 1. The deployment of United States Forces in Iraq, by direction of Congress, is hereby terminated and forces involved are to be redeployed at the earliest practicable date.

Section 2. A quick-reaction U.S. force and an over-the-horizon presence of U.S. Marines shall be deployed in the region.

Section 3. The United States of America shall pursue security and stability in Iraq through diplomacy.

See now? THREE PARTS to the referendm. 1, 2, 3. Get it? Read it one more time before reading what the Republicans, specifically Duncan Hunter's ONE PART that he actually put forth:

Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately.

1 Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately.

Unless you're incapable of reading clearly written English ANYONE can see the gigantic difference in the two referendums. I wrote this yesterday, but it still applies, even Stevie Wonder can SEE the differences.

So how about we debate the facts and not have to endure posts that are factually correct? Too much to ask? C'mon Republicans, you can do it! Read both versions and then why not impress us all with an educated comment on what was being done here, why it was done, and that the two referendums are vastly different and that it's completely unfair and untrue to attribute Hunter's bullshit submission to Murtha.

C'mon, surprise us all with the truth?

 

[Cremaster77]

Hay here's the deal that you morons don't seem to get is that Murtha had a resolution for the withdrawl of troops that he wanted put forward the Republicans said ok if you want this put through then we'll put it to a vote overwhelmingly his moronic resolution to pull out the troops was defeated almost unanimously, I don't give a **** if this guy is a congressional medal of honor winner his service record is not at issue here, what is at issue is that his resolution failed and now he's crying about it.

Do you not understand that it was Hunter's resolution and not Murtha's that was voted down? So you are basically saying that when a Republican proposes a ridiculous resolution that is soundly defeated that the Democrats are the ones to blame?

I don't understand how there's not more outrage from the Right that instead of discussing the points, the Republican-led Congress stopped working on vital budge details to propose a ridiculous resolution in a game of political brinkmanship. Say what you will, Murtha's resolution was offered in ernest. The Republicans clearly countered with politcal game-playing.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Do you not understand that it was Hunter's resolution and not Murtha's that was voted down? So you are basically saying that when a Republican proposes a ridiculous resolution that is soundly defeated that the Democrats are the ones to blame?

I don't understand how there's not more outrage from the Right that instead of discussing the points, the Republican-led Congress stopped working on vital budge details to propose a ridiculous resolution in a game of political brinkmanship. Say what you will, Murtha's resolution was offered in ernest. The Republicans clearly countered with politcal game-playing.

:wcm

I agree with your post completely. Sadly I think that there will be some Republicans in this community who will post and repost that the Dems suffered this outrageous defeat yada yada.

The truth is, as you wrote, that instead of doing their job and dealing with the budget (which they're trying to avoid at all costs right now) they pulled this BS stunt.

Good post!

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

How can you be so wrong? It's shocking that you seem to have missed the point of all of this? Christ! Instead of calling people "morons" maybe you need to do some self-examination?

Let's see if we can overcome the reading comprehension issue and actually examine the exact wording of Murtha's proposed referendum vs. the words of the REPUBLICAN's PHONEY referendum? Read this first, slowly if you have to, or even read it more than once. Rep. Murtha proposed:

See now? THREE PARTS to the referendm. 1, 2, 3. Get it? Read it one more time before reading what the Republicans, specifically Duncan Hunter's ONE PART that he actually put forth:

Unless you're incapable of reading clearly written English ANYONE can see the gigantic difference in the two referendums. I wrote this yesterday, but it still applies, even Stevie Wonder can SEE the differences.

So how about we debate the facts and not have to endure posts that are factually correct? Too much to ask? C'mon Republicans, you can do it! Read both versions and then why not impress us all with an educated comment on what was being done here, why it was done, and that the two referendums are vastly different and that it's completely unfair and untrue to attribute Hunter's bullshit submission to Murtha.

C'mon, surprise us all with the truth?

Let's see if you know anything about U.S. military mobility, the earliest practical date is tomorrow buddy, do you really think you libs are going to be able to use your classic manipulations of the English language to trick congress into surrendering, why don't you just be honest with yourself? What you really want is for the U.S. to be defeated and layed prostate to the terrorists CONFESS AND YOU SHALL BE SAVED!!!!!! Murthur is obviously calling for U.S. pullout and you damn well know it to bad for you the Reps didn't just let it slide this time they fought back and you can't stand it.

 

[Navy Pride]

Hmmm...10 years you say? How many dead? ZERO? 5 soldiers died today in Iraq.

Ever hear of NATO? We're a minor part of a coalition force in Bosnia. We're almost alone in Iraq. The few countries who were with us in the beginning have gone home leaving us and the UK and the UK is in the south of Iraq away from the front lines.

You know Navy are you ever able to make a point without invoking your hero President Clinton or writing "you lefties"?

Clinton left office almost 5 years ago yet you ALWAYS write about him. Needless to say, or to be expected, what you write about him is WRONG, i.e. he's a rapist, he's a pedophile (you've written so often that Monica "was young enough to be his granddaughter), he's a pothead, he's a convicted criminal etc. Get over it Dude! He's no more a rapist than you are....

The point is dude your daddy said we would be out of Bosnia in a year and the fact remains your are a lefty, he is and allefged rapist and he did smoke dope but he did not enhale...yeah right....:roll: and I did not call him a pedophile with Monica because she was of legal age, Barely........

I just call them as I sees em my left wing friend..........

 

[Navy Pride]

I believe both, of course. Our troops have done one hell of a job, as I said, despite the flaws in the administration's war policy. That is why our elected officials are working to ensure that the exit strategy is not flawed and, for that matter, that one actually exists, so that they can come home safely to their families who miss them terribly.

I think there is a better way of telling who to believe.......Look at who the troops voted for in the 2004 elections.............That will answer the question.......

 

[DeeJayH]

Your post is totally and completely untrue! Surrender of the US Military! How can anyone debate with you when you post such idiotic words? Do you really not understand or are you simply trying to post stupid nonsense?

only because you are caught up in the semantics of an idiots Surrender request
How can a marine every say Surrender? Didnt think it was in his vocabulary

Negotiating means getting the three major groups to compromise for the best interests of Iraq.

We need to make the election next month work, then solowly pull back while empowering the new government to defend themselves.

is that Bush's plan or Murtha's plan
sure sounds like what bush's team has been doing since day ONE

You're never going to defeat them militarily so what other recourse is there?

dont we have a kill ratio of 20:1
sure sounds like we are winning to me

Murtha's plan to pull back into neighboring countries and to maintain a quick strike force is ingenious, and it is the sane solution.

that is the same as SURRENDER
you do not invade and than walk away
you either WIN or you LOSE, this is war
Terrorists would be emboldened by this move
and the World would have no respect/fear of us because it would show the country to be bunch of weak stomached ******s that can not see a battle to its logical end, that being Victory

 

[DivineComedy]

Not long after the “Mission Accomplished” thing I emailed the Whitehouse suggesting something to the effect that we establish a government in Iraq as soon as possible and withdraw to a base in the desert to only come out occasionally for raids. I wish I had kept a copy of the email.

Anyway, the basic logic behind the Congressman’s idea is nothing new at all.

The difference between his so-called “plan” and my suggestion is that I did not suggest totally leaving Iraq before it was stable, but just suggested a more limited presence, which is logical in the face of the average Muslim‘s xenophobic ignorance. A base with a deserted kill zone that would attract the bad guys where our troops could quietly grease them would be useful, and totally leaving before Iraq can police themselves would not even give us that.

Once we leave Iraq we never need to go back, so I am against any idea of leaving Iraq to only come back in with a rapid deployment force. That sounds too much like reason for endless containment!

I do not want our rapid deployment force in another country to save our troops from attack, only so some butt ugly terrorist can attack a wedding with a drop dead gorgeous bride in the country our troops are hiding in.

I repeat “Once we leave Iraq we never need to go back!”

 

[26 X World Champs]

Let's see if you know anything about U.S. military mobility, the earliest practical date is tomorrow buddy,

How can anyone debate with you when you post ridiculous words like this? How idiotic is it to write that Murtha meant tomorrow? It's this type of LIE that people in the USA are sick to death of hearing from some Republicans. Instead of responding to the actual words that he said you chose to make up new words, throw in some anger and then act like you know what he meant despite Murtha never having said what you wrote. Great job! :wow:

do you really think you libs are going to be able to use your classic manipulations of the English language to trick congress into surrendering, why don't you just be honest with yourself?

See, more of the same made up $hit. You keep using the word "surrender" but no one else does? Then you take your own words and assign them to no one in particular, just the generalized "libs". Very creditable. Besides you and Navy Pride, do you think anyone else believes your posts? What does it tell you if only the lunatic fringe words that you wrote are believable by the most extreme right wingers in this community?

What you really want is for the U.S. to be defeated and layed prostate to the terrorists CONFESS AND YOU SHALL BE SAVED!!!!!!

See, it's incredibly stupid words like this, which you employ in too many posts, IMHO, that make debating with you impossible. No facts, just bluster, no truths, just made up $hit.

Murthur is obviously calling for U.S. pullout and you damn well know it to bad for you the Reps didn't just let it slide this time they fought back and you can't stand it.

His name is MURTHA! If you're going to attack a war hero and 30+ year Congressman the least you could do is learn his name.

It's also obvious you've not heard nor even read what he said, so why are you trying to debate something you've got zero knowledge about? How stupid is that?:2no4:

 

[26 X World Champs]

The point is dude your daddy said we would be out of Bosnia in a year

Only an idiot would look at our effort in Bosnia, zero dead, peace and stability and write that it's a failure. Repeat, only an idiot would believe that Bosnia was a failed mission. What do you believe Navy Pride?

and the fact remains your are a lefty,

Wow! Your articulation is a fine example of who you are. You're debating skills are unmatched by anyone I've ever known, in or out of this community.

What does it mean when someone calls someone a "lefty"? Navy uses it as a slur. He's trying to be acerbic, but the fact is that using the word "lefty" as often as Navy does is confirmation of his inability to debate. Instead of writing a point of view of substance he acts like a 5 year old and says "you are a lefty." :laughat:

he (Clinton) is and allefged rapist

Again with the rapist attack of President Clinton? :rofl

I just call them as I sees em my left wing friend.

I most definitely are not "your friend." I would never have a friend like you because I respect my friends and I have zero respect for you.

 

[26 X World Champs]

only because you are caught up in the semantics of an idiots Surrender request How can a marine every say Surrender? Didnt think it was in his vocabulary

I really feel like I'm debating these guys: :stooges , Navy Pride, Trajan and DeeJay! Yikes!

Why must you toss out the word "surrender" which Murtha never, ever said and then write that he did say it and build your entire post around Murtha saying "surrender"? It's a falsehood to say this $hit.

dont we have a kill ratio of 20:1 sure sounds like we are winning to me

Are you saying that we've killed more than 40,000 insurgents? That is a lie. Total exaggeration. The real number is between 26K and 30K. Why can't you tell the truth?

Source: http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

that is the same as SURRENDER you do not invade and than walk away you either WIN or you LOSE, this is war emboldened by this move
and the World would have no respect/fear of us because it would show the country to be bunch of weak stomached ******s that can not see a battle to its logical end, that being Victory

It's really small minded to write "you either WIN or you LOSE". The world that you want to fear us actually hates us, that's not exactly the position that I envision for the USA. It's not only ignorant to want the world to fear us, it's plain wrong. I do not know of one great civilization that survived by ruling in fear. Nor did I know that we as Americans have the right to rule anything outside of our borders.

To worry about being perceived as "be bunch of weak stomached ******s" is the essence of what is wrong with your point of view. Who judges a nation using are they a "bunch of weak stomached ******s" or not? Maybe in a football game, but not in the real world.

The mentality that we must not be looked at as ******s is sickening to me.

 

[DeeJayH]

Why must you toss out the word "surrender" which Murtha never, ever said and then write that he did say it and build your entire post around Murtha saying "surrender"? It's a falsehood to say this $hit.

and you are deluded if you think our enemies will see it as anything else

between 26K and 30K

i am sorry, you are right, we are getting our ass handed to us
we should surrender immediately:doh

It's not only ignorant to want the world to fear us, it's plain wrong.

out of context rubber
friends respecte
enemies fear
hence the use of respect/fear
thought it was clear enough that even you would grasp that:2wave:

Nor did I know that we as Americans have the right to rule anything outside of our borders.

outright rule.....of course not
rule through influence and pressure.....absolutely
thats why we are the Sole Super Power left standing

To worry about being perceived as "be bunch of weak stomached ******s" is the essence of what is wrong with your point of view. Who judges a nation using are they a "bunch of weak stomached ******s" or not? Maybe in a football game, but not in the real world.
The mentality that we must not be looked at as ******s is sickening to me.

might it make you sick because you are a Weak stomached *****?:mrgreen: j/k