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Confiscation: The First Attempt

CalGun

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The California legislature moved ahead with a measure Friday night that will require CA gun owners to turn in any magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds that can't be "fixed" to hold only 10 rounds. The legislative act will provide a 90 day window starting Jan. 1, 2014 and concluding near the end of March for gun owners to comply. Failure to comply and end up in possession of a hi cap magazine will result in a misdemeanor "gun" charge. A few misdemeanors with a specific "gun" relation bar the convicted from future ownership of firearms. The legislative action does not call for door to door collection of hi cap magazines but does mandate anyone with a business license (IE shooting ranges) turn over offenders or face termination of their license.

I'm sure the LA street gangs will line up to comply. Glad I was able to relocate all my hi caps to the lake front property in NV before this quagmire kicks in.
 

Goshin

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Registration leads to confiscation. Anybody who said we're crazy for believing that needs to apologize.
 

Lutherf

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Why would you relocate your magazines and not yourself and your family WITH those magazines?
 

LaMidRighter

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Registration leads to confiscation. Anybody who said we're crazy for believing that needs to apologize.
And honestly, those accusing people of "being gun nuts" when their side is the one on the attack just need to be silent. There is nothing worse than citizens backing actions against fellow citizens' rights, and if they "win" there will be a time they will have something they care about under regulation, they will have no defenders because of ill will sown prior and be left to the ultimate outcome of their lax attitudes towards liberty.
 

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The rogue Obama Administration will continue trammeling individual rights until challenged. That is how Socialist/Communist governments advance.

This will be challenged in the US Supreme Court and it should be easily defeated, but now that Roberts has turned into Obama's boy, who knows.

When the time comes, Americans will stand up for themselves. It is important for the Obama agenda that Americans not be able to defend themselves from their government, so the time of individual seizure will come. The ruling Obama Administration has moved far beyond any recognition as an American government. It no longer even pretends to legitimacy, it is filled with the hot eyed zeal of hatred of all things and people American.

Think of the nightmare you and your family will suffer if you are not armed and capable of defending yourself.
 
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MACS-24

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If the government ever wanted a fairly good list to serve as a starting point for gun registration they'd start with the NRA membership list.

NRA keeps database of gun owners and potential members: Report

That being said, there's no registration of magazines going on here.

Did you read any of those posts or just opening title? If you read any your idea was already debunked there. http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-control/170464-nras-national-database-gun-owners-w-90-a.html
 
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VanceMack

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There will be no shortage of "gun owners" on this site that will swoop in shortly and defend these measures and pooh pooh how its not REALLY yet another anti gun measure.
 

VanceMack

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That was fast!
 

Master PO

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That's not what ex post facto means.


the law is simple it means you cannot hold a person accountable for a crime, after the fact.

if i buy something, and its a legal purchase, then the government cannot make a law for what i purchase a crime against me..it can only be made for future purchases.

ex post facto adj. Latin for "after the fact," which refers to laws adopted after an act is committed making it illegal although it was legal when done, or increases the penalty for a crime after it is committed. Such laws are specifically prohibited by the U. S. Constitution, Article I, Section 9. Therefore, if a state legislature or Congress enact new rules of proof or longer sentences, those new rules or sentences do not apply to crimes committed before the new law was adopted.
 
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Wiseone

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the law is simple it means you cannot hold a person accountable for a crime, after the fact.

if i buy something, and its a legal purchase, then the government cannot make a law for what i purchase a crime against me..it can only be made for future purchases.

ex post facto adj. Latin for "after the fact," which refers to laws adopted after an act is committed making it illegal although it was legal when done, or increases the penalty for a crime after it is committed. Such laws are specifically prohibited by the U. S. Constitution, Article I, Section 9. Therefore, if a state legislature or Congress enact new rules of proof or longer sentences, those new rules or sentences do not apply to crimes committed before the new law was adopted.

This law would violate the ex post facto provision if and only if the State of California tried to use it to prosecute you for owning or otherwise possesing a magazine with a capacity over 10 rounds prior to the date the law went into affect, ie Jan 1 2014, OR if the law itself specifically stated that when it goes into affect that it will retroactively make certain actions that people already did, such as owning a perticular magazine, a crime and seek to punish them for it.

However it does not violate ex post facto to say that something, like a magazine, is illegal after a certian date because the law will only apply to persons possesing a magazine after that date.

In other words no one who had a 10+ magazine prior to 1Jan2014 will be prosecuted for anything nor will they have committed a crime.
 

Master PO

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This law would violate the ex post facto provision if and only if the State of California tried to use it to prosecute you for owning or otherwise possesing a magazine with a capacity over 10 rounds prior to the date the law went into affect, ie Jan 1 2014, OR if the law itself specifically stated that when it goes into affect that it will retroactively make certain actions that people already did, such as owning a perticular magazine, a crime and seek to punish them for it.

However it does not violate ex post facto to say that something, like a magazine, is illegal after a certian date because the law will only apply to persons possesing a magazine after that date.

In other words no one who had a 10+ magazine prior to 1Jan2014 will be prosecuted for anything nor will they have committed a crime.


if i make a purchase of a legal product, and legal by law to purchase the product, ...government CANNOT come back later and charge me with any crime of owning that product.

that is a retro- active law, and not legal


"The California legislature moved ahead with a measure Friday night that will require CA gun owners to turn in any magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds that can't be "fixed" to hold only 10 rounds........ Failure to comply and end up in possession of a hi cap magazine will result in a misdemeanor "gun" charge

a misdemeanor is a crime

Misdemeanor Charges. A misdemeanor is a criminal charge. Misdemeanor offenses are a lessor offense than a felony, but they are not without penalties ...
 
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TurtleDude

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The California legislature moved ahead with a measure Friday night that will require CA gun owners to turn in any magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds that can't be "fixed" to hold only 10 rounds. The legislative act will provide a 90 day window starting Jan. 1, 2014 and concluding near the end of March for gun owners to comply. Failure to comply and end up in possession of a hi cap magazine will result in a misdemeanor "gun" charge. A few misdemeanors with a specific "gun" relation bar the convicted from future ownership of firearms. The legislative action does not call for door to door collection of hi cap magazines but does mandate anyone with a business license (IE shooting ranges) turn over offenders or face termination of their license.

I'm sure the LA street gangs will line up to comply. Glad I was able to relocate all my hi caps to the lake front property in NV before this quagmire kicks in.

I hope all those who voted for that become stricken with Ebola Zaire

or better yet, targeted for Manson like break ins:mrgreen:
 

TurtleDude

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Registration leads to confiscation. Anybody who said we're crazy for believing that needs to apologize.

you, of course, are right, but you may remember one major league Obama supporter who demanded us to prove that EVERY CASE OF registration leads to confiscation or else accept that registration was legitimate.
 

TurtleDude

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TurtleDude

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CalGun

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I did. Papers were filed to change residence some time ago. My permanent residence is now NV. In fact I have a DMV apt tomorrow for my new DL. I still own a home in CA, still have a job there, but my residency is now in NV and my primary income is earned in NV and free of CAs attempt to tax me for leasing property in NV ( I'm a landlord)

Why would you relocate your magazines and not yourself and your family WITH those magazines?
 

ttwtt78640

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The California legislature moved ahead with a measure Friday night that will require CA gun owners to turn in any magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds that can't be "fixed" to hold only 10 rounds. The legislative act will provide a 90 day window starting Jan. 1, 2014 and concluding near the end of March for gun owners to comply. Failure to comply and end up in possession of a hi cap magazine will result in a misdemeanor "gun" charge. A few misdemeanors with a specific "gun" relation bar the convicted from future ownership of firearms. The legislative action does not call for door to door collection of hi cap magazines but does mandate anyone with a business license (IE shooting ranges) turn over offenders or face termination of their license.

I'm sure the LA street gangs will line up to comply. Glad I was able to relocate all my hi caps to the lake front property in NV before this quagmire kicks in.

It would help to post a link to the actual law text. This seems to fail the smell test on many fronts. "Capable of holding" meaning what? Can one simply pop a stick inside the magazine to prevent adding more than 10 rounds? Obviously that "fix" can be reversed in a few seconds, just like removing the plug from a shotgun tube magazine. "Turn it in" for payment or replacement or do they expect you to drive it to them at your expense and just give it away? If it "can be fixed" who will do that fixing and at what expense? If a police officer enters a shooting range (or even a 7-11) is the owner supposed to rat them out or lose their business license?
 

CalGun

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The tablet I'm using wont copy the link but I will when at the computer.
It is senate bill 396 by Hancock and it has been passed by two committees and is now eligible for a floor vote. Democrats are claiming to throw this and "all" 11 anti gun bills thru with their super majority in both houses. The state AG is on record supporting all 11 bills including this one labeled " magazine confiscation" and there are others requiring AR registration, taxes, penalties for unsafe storage, added liability so insurance companies can charge you more, etc etc.


It would help to post a link to the actual law text. This seems to fail the smell test on many fronts. "Capable of holding" meaning what? Can one simply pop a stick inside the magazine to prevent adding more than 10 rounds? Obviously that "fix" can be reversed in a few seconds, just like removing the plug from a shotgun tube magazine. "Turn it in" for payment or replacement or do they expect you to drive it to them at your expense and just give it away? If it "can be fixed" who will do that fixing and at what expense? If a police officer enters a shooting range (or even a 7-11) is the owner supposed to rat them out or lose their business license?
 

TurtleDude

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Bill Text - SB-396 Firearms: magazine capacity.

Here it is. Also it's been modified to go into effect July 1, 2014

the laws should be set by the courts to include all civilians. IF the Peoples' Collective of Kalifornia does not trust its serfs to possess more than ten round magazines, then the state employees who guard the masters and enlightened lords should be limited to ten rounds as well
 

CalGun

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We know that will never happen.

The left, as shining examples in my former state, are very adapt at do as I say not as I do. God this state still thinks obamafarcecare is going to magically save their lives.


the laws should be set by the courts to include all civilians. IF the Peoples' Collective of Kalifornia does not trust its serfs to possess more than ten round magazines, then the state employees who guard the masters and enlightened lords should be limited to ten rounds as well
 

TurtleDude

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We know that will never happen.

The left, as shining examples in my former state, are very adapt at do as I say not as I do. God this state still thinks obamafarcecare is going to magically save their lives.

hopefully the citizens in your state will stand up to this nonsense
 
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