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Confiscation: The First Attempt

Surtr said:
Or they could just check their records, since buying a firearm automatically places you in a federal registry.
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really? do tell
 
Surtr said:
They're keeping record of every phone call you make, every text and email you send, and possibly your browser history. Do you honestly believe that the government doesn't keep record of NIC background checks?
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I guess you could ASSume that is happening. They dont keep a record of every phone call, email etc either
 
Surtr said:
Have you not read the news the last couple of months?
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I actually did and I understand what was said. there is a big difference between them keeping a log that Turtle phoned Surtr on August 31 at 4.15 PM from 513-555-5555 to 202-555-5555 versus them recording our conversation.

does the former happen? many a time

does the latter happen-not without a warrant
 
TurtleDude said:
I actually did and I understand what was said. there is a big difference between them keeping a log that Turtle phoned Surtr on August 31 at 4.15 PM from 513-555-5555 to 202-555-5555 versus them recording our conversation.

does the former happen? many a time

does the latter happen-not without a warrant
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You go ahead and believe that, but the history of the NSA suggests otherwise.
 
Surtr said:
You go ahead and believe that, but the history of the NSA suggests otherwise.
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LOL just because one is paranoid doesn't mean they won't get you:mrgreen:

if the NSA has the time to record every single phone conversation and email sent in or to american addresses, they must have more operatives than say the entire population of India
 
TurtleDude said:
LOL just because one is paranoid doesn't mean they won't get you:mrgreen:

if the NSA has the time to record every single phone conversation and email sent in or to american addresses, they must have more operatives than say the entire population of India
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Laugh all you want, but I'm not going to just assume that the government has the best intentions for gun owners, nor am I going to believe that they aren't keeping record of every NIC background check made.
 
Surtr said:
Laugh all you want, but I'm not going to just assume that the government has the best intentions for gun owners, nor am I going to believe that they aren't keeping record of every NIC background check made.
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Oh I don't trust the administration at all but given how cut throat the GOP v Dem contest is, if this was going on Mitch McConnell and Boehner would be holding daily press conferences if the Obama administration was keeping a record of every NICS check. there is no way such activity could remain secret
 
TurtleDude said:
Oh I don't trust the administration at all but given how cut throat the GOP v Dem contest is, if this was going on Mitch McConnell and Boehner would be holding daily press conferences if the Obama administration was keeping a record of every NICS check. there is no way such activity could remain secret
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I believe that the ATF and FBI do, and both belong to the DoJ, which answers to the President of the United States.
 
Surtr said:
I believe that the ATF and FBI do, and both belong to the DoJ, which answers to the President of the United States.
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I know lots of FBI agents and a few ATF ones and even more who are retired. many of them are hard core pro gun types. believe me if this stuff was going on-there would be all sorts of these types coming out of the woodwork
 
TurtleDude said:
I know lots of FBI agents and a few ATF ones and even more who are retired. many of them are hard core pro gun types. believe me if this stuff was going on-there would be all sorts of these types coming out of the woodwork
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That doesn't mean anything. I was in the Army, doesn't mean I know jack about what happens at the top.
 
and what does limiting law abiding citizens ammo capacity have anything to do with solving criminal gun violence? This is imbecilic...
 
ChezC3 said:
and what does limiting law abiding citizens ammo capacity have anything to do with solving criminal gun violence? This is imbecilic...
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It makes the squeemish leftists "feel" better.
 
Surtr said:
Laugh all you want, but I'm not going to just assume that the government has the best intentions for gun owners, nor am I going to believe that they aren't keeping record of every NIC background check made.
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Lots of people buy the line that the NIC checks get shredded within 72 hours.
I called BS on that years ago.
I this is the information age, no keystroke will go un checked or disposed of. Information is power.
Power over you and me is the main goal.
 
TurtleDude said:
I guess you could ASSume that is happening. They dont keep a record of every phone call, email etc either
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Either they are doing it, or they want us to think they are. Fear is a very powerful tool to rule the masses with.
 
Surtr said:
Laugh all you want, but I'm not going to just assume that the government has the best intentions for gun owners, nor am I going to believe that they aren't keeping record of every NIC background check made.
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Yep. They rarely persue those turned down but insist that is is necessary to expand the system. Hmm....
 
TurtleDude said:
hopefully the citizens in your state will stand up to this nonsense
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It will never happen. A majority of the voters want government handouts and they vote in liberal legislature. The liberal legislature wants gun control. Voila...California has gun control and other measures (gay marriage) that the majority of their citizens have already voted and said they dont want.
 
CRUE CAB said:
It makes the squeemish leftists "feel" better.
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I don't know, having the right tool for the job always is what make me feel better...
 
ernst barkmann said:
if i make a purchase of a legal product, and legal by law to purchase the product, ...government CANNOT come back later and charge me with any crime of owning that product.

that is a retro- active law, and not legal


"The California legislature moved ahead with a measure Friday night that will require CA gun owners to turn in any magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds that can't be "fixed" to hold only 10 rounds........ Failure to comply and end up in possession of a hi cap magazine will result in a misdemeanor "gun" charge

a misdemeanor is a crime

Misdemeanor Charges. A misdemeanor is a criminal charge. Misdemeanor offenses are a lessor offense than a felony, but they are not without penalties ...
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It would be a retroactive law if they charged you for purchasing the magazine when it was legal to do so, however its not retroactive to charge you for owning something after its made illegal.
 
So if you have 10 mags for a handgun, many of which are $30 to $40 each and more for extended mags.
You are just supposed to "give away" three to four hundred dollars of your personal property?
And if you dont, what will be the level of proof before issuing a warrant to search your homes.
This is the slippery slope that everone has talked about for years. Welcome to the top of the slope.
 
Wiseone said:
It would be a retroactive law if they charged you for purchasing the magazine when it was legal to do so, however its not retroactive to charge you for owning something after its made illegal.
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sorry no, you cannot charge me with a crime, becuase i have a product, even though at the time of purchase it was legal.

the founders are clear on this in the notes of the constitutional convention.

no expost facto laws cannot be passed if it is of a criminal nature.

James Madison--Col: Mason moved to strike out from the clause (art I sect 9.) "No bill of attainder nor any expost facto law shall be passed" the words "nor any ex post facto law". He thought it not sufficiently clear that the prohibition meant by this phrase was limited to cases of a criminal nature--and no Legislature ever did or can altogether avoid them in Civil cases.

Georage Mason--Both the general legislature and the State legislature are expressly prohibited making ex post facto laws; though there never was nor can be a legislature but must and will make such laws, when necessity and the public safety require them; which will hereafter be a breach of all the constitutions in the Union, and afford precedents for other innovations.
 
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Exactly,

This is why I said, the first attempt, at confiscation.

The legal battle will brew, and probably the US Supremes will have to decide
since the 9th Circuit always sides with the most radical left on just about
anything they want. I have little hope in the CA supreme court.

There would be no search warrant or confiscation unless you would be
caught with a hi cap magazine - like at a range or outdoors in the wildnerness
areas shooting.

We all know its impossible to tell a 10 round Glock 17/19 magazine from a 15.
Its impossible to tell my 10 round Ruger P series magazines from 10 vs 15.
So if police see a 10 round magazine on these types of hand guns they will
enjoy "probable cause" to search further for the hi cap criminal. I suppose the
same is true with 10/30 magazines for the AR though I never understood or
wanted one - don't own one.

I'm thankful my dad had the for sight to buy land in Nevada and that he
taught me so many things - I was able to build my own home there. All of
my personal property is now out of that horrible state. I still have real estate
in CA and that's bad enough the taxes I pay on that, but my belongings are
safe (for now).




CRUE CAB said:
So if you have 10 mags for a handgun, many of which are $30 to $40 each and more for extended mags.
You are just supposed to "give away" three to four hundred dollars of your personal property?
And if you dont, what will be the level of proof before issuing a warrant to search your homes.
This is the slippery slope that everone has talked about for years. Welcome to the top of the slope.
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