College mulls renaming building after pro-Hitler comments

[Felis Leo]

Nothing you say matters without undeniable proof from totally unbiased sources that I am wrong. That is how it works.

No. That is how a classical appeal to ignorance fallacy works. You made the claim that Democrats as a whole and without exception have always been non-prejudiced. When challenged on it, you demand to be proven wrong.

Appeal to Ignorance

www.txstate.edu

But if you are truly being honest about wanting to know why I do not share your opinion about Democratic Party's moral perfection from the time of its founding, here is a little snippet from History.com.

Democratic Party

www.history.com

If you think they are being ahistorical, dishonest, or lazy in their thinking, please tell me why.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

This is a small debate site with a few thousand active members. Unless one of us is happens to be the head of state, or a legislator, or the leader of a major governmental department, very little that is stated here or opined on really matters all that much.



It is difficult to take a faulty tone down a notch or two. Have you ever tried?

I just can't recall a time I announced an opinion about what a private org calls a property it owns. When that happens, you can call me out.

 

[jmotivator]

Time-out for some facts:

"Her attitude toward African-Americans can certainly be viewed as paternalistic, but there is no evidence she subscribed to the more racist ideas of the time or that she coerced black women into using birth control. In fact, for her time, as the Washington Post noted, "she would likely be considered to have advanced views on race relations."

Are most of Planned Parenthood's clinics in black neighborhoods?

In 2014, the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research center, surveyed all known abortion providers, including Planned Parenthood clinics, in the U.S. (nearly 2,000) and found that 60 percent are in majority-white neighborhoods.

Planned Parenthood has not released numbers on the neighborhoods of its specific clinics, but responding to a request for demographic information, the organization said that in 2013, 14 percent of its patients nationwide were black. That's nearly equal to the proportion of the African-American population in the U.S."

Link

So Planned Parenthood wouldn't respond to the survey on their neighborhood Democgraphics and this is your evidence that they don't locate their abortion mills in minority neighborhoods.

Also is it your assertion that "minority" = "black"?

 

[jmotivator]

Its a curious way to describe Donald Trump.

Whike it is difficult to see a connection between one believing that a woman has fundamental right to control her own body and eugenics, the similarity between eugenicists and conservatives who feel that the problem for blacks is that, as a group, they make inferior choices to whites is hard to ignore.

Teaching a woman that she needs to kill her unborn child to acheive in life is the big message from the Pro-Abortion folks.

Like I said, there is a slim difference, like the difference between killing someone and talking them into killing themselves.

 

[bomberfox]

I am being dead serious. There is no reason to tell me I am wrong without undeniable proof from totally unbiased historical sources. Failure to show me that is an admission you are lying just to attack me for being a Democrat. That is what conservatives do every day. I have always welcomed proof I am wrong since I registered as Blue Donkey more than two years ago, but nobody ever thought about looking for it. That is how I know people lie when they make claims that are the opposite of mine.

Oh and by the way, questions are not answers. You fail on two counts there.

Your claim was false. Just accept it.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

College mulls renaming building after pro-Hitler comments

Officials at Montana State University-Billings will consider removing the name of the college’s first president from its administrative building after discovering quotes from more than 85 years ago in which he supported Adolf Hitler’s sterilization plan to improve the genetics of the human race...

kstp.com

“I abominate Hitler’s general policies, but if I am correctly informed in regard to his campaign for sterilization of the unfit, I prophesy that Germany will do more for the uplift of her society in the next 50 years through sterilization, than we have done in 85 years through public education.”

The move comes as universities around the country are renaming buildings to remove names of people tied to slavery, segregation, white supremacy or the Confederacy."


I'd say they have to.

Actually, the "if I am correctly informed" (which he wasn't) bit and the "abominate Hitler's general policies" (hardly a ringing tocsin of praise for the Nazis) bit negates the criticism.

At the time, the "Eugenics Movement" has a LOT of support (even support from people who were "liberal").

In fact, the theoretical basis for the "Eugenics Movement" (that not allowing the 'inferior' members of the herd to breed would lead to improving the breeding stock) makes a lot of sense. In fact, most of the food stuffs that you eat today were developed using EXACTLY that same technique.

Where the "Eugenics Movement" went wildly astray was in its definition of 'inferior' (which - in the US - could be reduced to "anyone who was not 'White', 'Straight', and 'Christian'").

 

[bomberfox]

I clearly pointed out YOUR ironic painting with a broad bush to her broad brush......which you finally recognized.

I'll let it go....if you will.

Overblowing this a bit much.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Product of his time. Many progressives in the early 20th century peddled "the science" of eugenics.

Eugenics Project: A Documentary History

You might want to take a look at the difference between "eugenics", "selective breeding", and "animal husbandry" because they BOTH have the same theoretical underpinning and "animal husbandry" has been how the vast majority of the breeds of livestock was produced while "selective breeding" has been how the vast majority of non-animal agricultural products have been produced.

 

[bomberfox]

Actually, the "if I am correctly informed" (which he wasn't) bit and the "abominate Hitler's general policies" (hardly a ringing tocsin of praise for the Nazis) bit negates the criticism.

At the time, the "Eugenics Movement" has a LOT of support (even support from people who were "liberal").

In fact, the theoretical basis for the "Eugenics Movement" (that not allowing the 'inferior' members of the herd to breed would lead to improving the breeding stock) makes a lot of sense. In fact, most of the food stuffs that you eat today were developed using EXACTLY that same technique.

Where the "Eugenics Movement" went wildly astray was in its definition of 'inferior' (which - in the US - could be reduced to "anyone who was not 'White', 'Straight', and 'Christian'").

Where it went wildly astray was treating humans as livestock and changing with the social winds like when the Irish were treated as subhuman non white people and this culling the herd mentality.

It is the belief that the “lesser” have a duty to make way for the “betters”. Its a hell of a lot more garbage than just selective breeding.

 

[bomberfox]

You might want to take a look at the difference between "eugenics", "selective breeding", and "animal husbandry" because they BOTH have the same theoretical underpinning and "animal husbandry" has been how the vast majority of the breeds of livestock was produced while "selective breeding" has been how the vast majority of non-animal agricultural products have been produced.

Eugenics is pretty different from selective breeding.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

So Planned Parenthood wouldn't respond to the survey on their neighborhood Democgraphics and this is your evidence that they don't locate their abortion mills in minority neighborhoods.

Also is it your assertion that "minority" = "black"?

OMG, an org that provides primarily medical care for low income individuals......are located in low income areas?

 

[aociswundumho]

Margaret Sanger was amazing. Way ahead of her time in matters of sexuality, and was willing to go to great lengths to help women with birth control. Her interest in eugenics is unfortunate, but she never adovacted for laws to enforce it.

She wasn't just interested in eugenics, she believed in it, and advocated for it. Sanger and other white birth control advocates founded "The Negro Project" in order to set up as many clinics in black neighborhoods as possible.

She was a true progressive.

 

[Nickyjo]

Margaret Sanger supported the same thing and the leftist progs absolutely LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE her

You don’t get a gold, but perhaps a bronze in the Missing the Point Olympics. Maybe if this guy pioneered for women’s or other people’s rights as Sanger did, his position on eugenics might be overlooked. Apologies if he was heroic in some other ways.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Henry Ford loved Hilter, I would not consider him a progressive, certainly not libertarian

Good point.

I think that the company named after him should change its name to a more acceptable one. And, of course, there shouldn't be anything else that is named after him either.

And then there is that notorious so-called "Cradle of Liberty" ("Faneuil Hall" named after a notorious slave trader). That name CERTAINLY has to go as well.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Surely you are not being serious. Alright, let's do a history refresher course. Which political party led the Southern States to secede over the issue of maintaining slavery?

And after the South lost the Civil War, which political party enacted the Jim Crow racial segregation laws when they attained power in Southern state legislatures?

And the members of which political party (in the southern US states) deserted that party and joined which political party when the majority of the political party that they belonged to supported the civil rights movement and racial equality?

 

[aociswundumho]

The Democratic Party of the Nineteenth Century had a completely different ideological view than today.

Bullshit.

Consider my state of CT, which is controlled by Democrats. It's a wealthy state filled with all-white suburbs and one of the most racially segregated public school systems in the entire country. It's not like this is some big secret. This is how they want it, and in this state controlled by the Democratic Party, it is politically impossible to change it.

 

[CaughtInThe]

OMG, an org that provides primarily medical care for low income individuals......are located in low income areas?

btw, that's a block on Deandre.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The Democratic Party of the Nineteenth Century had a completely different ideological view than today. I find it more damning when people or parties don't change or as the Republicans have done -- go from believing in democracy to believing in autocracy.

You appear to have missed the point that <SARC>everyone with the same name believes exactly the same things as those with that name believed in the past</SARC>.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

No. That is how a classical appeal to ignorance fallacy works. You made the claim that Democrats as a whole and without exception have always been non-prejudiced. When challenged on it, you demand to be proven wrong.

If you do not prove me wrong the way I told you to, you lied, because that can only mean you have nothing to support your claim.

Again, I welcome any proof you have that is from a completely unbiased source that Democrats had ever been prejudiced in the past. That is very easy to do if it is true, so don't tell me the "you can't prove a negative" nonsense.

The reason I demand to be proven wrong is I have absolutely no faith that Republicans tell the truth anytime they disagree with me when what I say is accurate. I need to know when Republicans make claims they are not repeating lies that were written deliberately to support Trump the Terrorist or hate the Democratic Party. If Republicans behaved the same way as Democrats, who are very happy to post links to unbiased sources to support their claims, I would not have to do this. It is not my fallacy that Republicans have.

If you refuse to show me the proof, this conversation is over. I cannot be more clear about my position and will stand by it as long as Republicans do what they have always done.

 

[Linc]

Margaret Sanger supported the same thing and the leftist progs absolutely LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE her

Republicans crawled into bed with Nazis 100 years ago. Maybe Putin could denazify them.

 

[Warcok]

Republicans crawled into bed with Nazis 100 years ago. Maybe Putin could denazify them.

Now the leftist progs have crawled into bed with Nazis

 

[Deuce]

Margaret Sanger supported the same thing and the leftist progs absolutely LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE her

It's weird that you people think we love her.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Where it went wildly astray was treating humans as livestock

Nope.

Where it went wrong was in believing that skin colour or income had something to do with "worth" (or even more tellingly "potential value").

and changing with the social winds like when the Irish were treated as subhuman non white people and this culling the herd mentality.

You mean they weren't? [Says he who is eligible for Irish citizenship.]

It is the belief that the “lesser” have a duty to make way for the “betters”. Its a hell of a lot more garbage than just selective breeding.

It is in the definition of "lesser" being "not like me".

Ask yourself this question - "If a person with an IQ of 100 possessed a dominant gene that ALWAYS resulted in a 10% drop in IQ for their descendants, how many generations would it take before their descendants had IQs of less than 50?", and this theoretical question "Is it a good thing for someone with a dominant gene that ALWAYS results in a 10% drop in IQ for their descendants to be allowed to breed freely?".

I also refer you to "The Marching Morons".

PS - Just to clarify, I do NOT support what the "Eugenics Movement" actually did nor do I agree with their definition of "inferior".

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Eugenics is pretty different from selective breeding.

Nope. "Eugenics" and "selective breeding" are exactly the same thing.

However, the "Eugenics Movement" applied the principles of "eugenics" using entirely false postulates.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Yikes. Yeah that's pretty damning, particularly coming from an educator. It would be like a prosecutor saying "I think we need more vigilante street justice; vigilantes would be more effective than I am."

Lol, what do you mean “coming from an educator” teachers and professors have a superiority complex and often believe it is their job to correct people they view as inferior to their way of thinking.