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Children, Coyotes & Over-supervision

Yeah, it's different, and pretty rare if the 'matches' for that combo at Embark are any indication - I've seen three so far. We did a DNA test - mom 100% beagle and very small (we met the mom - can't imaging the 'coupling' was fun for her), dad 100% GP. We were surprised that it was 50/50, but now that he's grown, it makes sense and he's got both traits. Spends every walk if allowed with nose on the ground, but at about 9-10 months started to "guard" the house, etc.

And I am fascinated by the genes at work with the dog. That reaction to coyotes is entirely innate. I don't think he's actually ever seen one, and he certainly didn't learn to guard against them and we couldn't possibly train it, but he knows the scent and it sends him into a state he NEVER gets with any other animal. Stands tall, front legs out wide, head and tail up, hackles up, the vocalization. With scents of other dogs, or meeting other dogs, he gets excited (in a friendly, "here's a possible playmate!!!" way) or is indifferent.
He sounds like he'd be a hoot to meet someday. 👍

I Love dogs of all kinds. Just precious, precious animals. Dogs are the way people ought to be. Cats? Meh... cats are more the way people are. :)
 
He sounds like he'd be a hoot to meet someday. 👍

I Love dogs of all kinds. Just precious, precious animals. Dogs are the way people ought to be. Cats? Meh... cats are more the way people are. :)
He's a sweet dog, and we love them too. We had two old dogs, brother sister from the Humane Society, and after we lost the second after he was sick for months, but still pretty happy, planned on waiting a few months. Travel, hike without worrying if dogs were allowed, etc. We lasted two weeks, and got the beagle/pyr. Thought, OK, we'll add a second in a year or so. We got the min. schnauzer 3 months later... 🤪
 
I'm jealous of your nesting owls. We have them around, Barred Owls, and I hear them regularly but I only see them maybe once or twice a year, and it's almost always when the crows are after them. I always love it when I spot them.

You may not be so jealous if one parks outside your window every morning, pre-dawn, and hoots way - every single day!

I've never seen a red tailed hawk attack doves, but I think it's because our resident Cooper's Hawks are the ones that mostly do that. I feed birds and the ones that come to the feeder drop seed on the ground and the doves gather to eat that. There's regularly a Cooper's Hawk at the bottom of our yard and I'm sure he's just picking one out for supper. I don't like to see it - seen it once and don't want to again - but it's just what happens. I'll find the pile of feathers occasionally.

And I agree about coyotes. Small pets, cats especially, are definitely part of their food supply in this area, and it's sad when the owners post notices and I know there's no chance once they're missing for more than a day or so. I've warned several with cats who moved into our neighborhood - hope they listened, but we see cats on many walks at night and I never know who they belong to. Our dogs just want to play with them....

I'm actually pretty glad one of our young dogs is a beagle/Great Pyrenees mix and he's big enough - about 60lbs and the coyotes in my area are pretty small - to protect himself and our min. schnauzer. I actually think if the coyotes were around he'd smell them and run them off, or keep them at bay, with his barks etc. The Great Pyrenees livestock guarding dog genes definitely kick in and he gets alert and ready, with huge deep barks, when we cross that smell, unlike anything else - not other dogs, cats, raccoons, skunks, rabbits, etc. Just coyotes. It's a bit embarrassing when it's during our nightly walks but there's nothing I can do. We'll occasionally hear the coyotes yipping back at him, from a distance.... Of course that just sends him over the edge. 🤪

Alright, I'd like to consider myself an experienced dog owner. But, I'm sure you don't run into a lot of same-mix dogs on your walks!

(And while I'm on the subject, how many Golden-Doodles does one society need?)
 
We need to be careful about creating living space for humans and animals. It will take management.
 
We had one that'd perch on a branch maybe 10 feet outside our window at night. Mockingbirds run through a litany of various bird calls and other sounds I guess they pick up on their own. But the "singing" is just non-stop. First an oriole, then a sparrow, then a robin, then a jay, then... then... then...

That is incredibly sobering. I pray I never have to witness anything like that, let alone have to experience it.

Some nights its unnerving in our subdivision, with three different packs of them howling off in the distance. You feel surrounded.

I'm very cautious when I walk our pups - we've had Westies for over 30 years now - all rescues, and the thought that anything could harm them is chilling.

You're wise to be cautious; A Westie is no match - no way!

But, around here at least, coyotes seem to stay away from humans, so there's that.

I carry a Buck 110 at all times around here, just in case - you know, like I'd really go Daniel Boone on them - but I carry one, regardless.

Hah! A classic folding knife, that's ridiculously ubiquitous!

There used to be a 'junior' too. And an 'executive', which can be easily carried in dress pants!
 
Coyotes, bears and cougars. They all make it down into the city one in awhile. Well, the coyotes pretty much live here. See them all the time.

Nobody has been attacked, to the best of my knowledge

Coyotes in our area were bold.

Eating the dog food in bowls on our front porch.
 
You may not be so jealous if one parks outside your window every morning, pre-dawn, and hoots way - every single day!
Very true. There's an open area about 100 yards behind my house, then another about 100 yards on the other side, and they hoot back and forth all the time, but from a distance...... ✌️

I'm what one might call an amateur "birder," spend lots of time outdoors, and I've seen 1000s of hawks of all kinds, and plenty of eagles, there are falcons around - rarer but still fairly common - but I can still at nearly 60yo almost count the owl sitings on my fingers and toes. Not quite, but close... I find them fascinating. The primary feathers are really neat to see - I've found several, more than I've seen actual owls.
Alright, I'd like to consider myself an experienced dog owner. But, I'm sure you don't run into a lot of same-mix dogs on your walks!

(And while I'm on the subject, how many Golden-Doodles does one society need?)
Nope! I've seen only one dog that might be close, but he's much more "pyr" looking than ours, with a huge amount of thick hair. Here's the big boy on a hike with me and Dottie...
BoDottieHouseMtn.jpg
 
(And while I'm on the subject, how many Golden-Doodles does one society need?)
They are fantastic as attack dogs. If you don't mind the attempted murder charge by all means acquire a Golden-doodle.
 
They are fantastic as attack dogs. If you don't mind the attempted murder charge by all means acquire a Golden-doodle.
Our bigger dog loves doodles.... 🤪

What I don't really get is if you want that kind of dog, why not a.... poodle? I've never owned a poodle, but those I see are friendly enough, and I know they're very, very smart. Yeah, some are groomed to look ridiculous IMO, but most around here are in standard "dog" trim and I love the look.
 
Coyotes are increasingly widespread in the suburbs. See Are coyotes moving into your neighborhood? - Science News . Predators of the human variety are widely feared. Some people, in neighborhood discussions are saying, and I am paraphrasing, "the premise that they are not a threat to children or small pets is false" and "(i)t’s irresponsible to say that children are safe."

What do we do? Keep our children inside or in cars? Do we avoid unstructured play for children because of the "big, bad...coyote"? Same question with human child molesters.Kids need to run around, bicycle etc. Don't we need to teach our children, as we were taught when we were young, not to talk to strangers?

At most, I would support a "buddy system" leaning towards group activities, such as pick-up games.

Is there a political angle in this post?
 
Coyotes are increasingly widespread in the suburbs. See Are coyotes moving into your neighborhood? - Science News . Predators of the human variety are widely feared. Some people, in neighborhood discussions are saying, and I am paraphrasing, "the premise that they are not a threat to children or small pets is false" and "(i)t’s irresponsible to say that children are safe."

What do we do? Keep our children inside or in cars? Do we avoid unstructured play for children because of the "big, bad...coyote"? Same question with human child molesters.Kids need to run around, bicycle etc. Don't we need to teach our children, as we were taught when we were young, not to talk to strangers?

At most, I would support a "buddy system" leaning towards group activities, such as pick-up games.
There is only one documented case of a coyote killing a child in North America. It happened in Glendale California a suburban city near Los Angeles in 1981. The coyote most likely assumed the child to be a small animal. One other fatal coyote attack on a human occurred in Canada, a young woman hiking alone. Biologist theorized that the coyotes which attacked her were possibly a crossbreed group, which had previous human contact and were not afraid of people. Those were the only TWO fatal coyote attacks in all of the known North American history. Other attacks have occurred, but not fatal. You are many times more likely to be killed by domestic canines off leash than a coyote.

And that being said, coyotes in urban areas are becoming much less afraid of being near human populations, and that is our fault because we make it easy for them to find food. Our little pet doggies and cats are easy prey for coyotes. And our lush green lawns and gardens invite rabbits, moles, field mice, and other critters which make for easy hunting grounds for coyotes.

I live in SoCal near the foothills and we have many coyotes. I see them daily walking along the tops of cinder block walls peering down into yards looking for prey. They have become used to being here, but still are afraid of humans if you challenge them. And that is the key, you must continue to challenge them. Coyotes in suburbs are not challenged the way they are in rural areas where ranchers and farmers shoot at them and harass them. Personally, I love the coyotes here who deal with the rabbits and rodents so I don't have to. I also like the fact that they hunt and kill annoying yapping dogs--- usually smaller dogs--- the coyotes avoid larger dogs, but will hunt them too in larger groups at times.

What I do to discourage them hanging out on my property when they get too comfortable, is to shoot them with a paintball gun loaded with rubber pellets (non paint pellets), and that generally works. It doesn't harm the coyotes, and they remember, and then they move on to easier hunting grounds.
 
When the populace allows the destruction of animal habitats,, my tears are not for the humans. Actions have consequences.
Can’t say I fully agree with your sentiment, especially when considering a child being hurt, but I understand the animal is a victim too.
 
Very true. There's an open area about 100 yards behind my house, then another about 100 yards on the other side, and they hoot back and forth all the time, but from a distance...... ✌️

I'm what one might call an amateur "birder," spend lots of time outdoors, and I've seen 1000s of hawks of all kinds, and plenty of eagles, there are falcons around - rarer but still fairly common - but I can still at nearly 60yo almost count the owl sitings on my fingers and toes. Not quite, but close... I find them fascinating. The primary feathers are really neat to see - I've found several, more than I've seen actual owls.

Nope! I've seen only one dog that might be close, but he's much more "pyr" looking than ours, with a huge amount of thick hair. Here's the big boy on a hike with me and Dottie...
View attachment 67385257
👍
 
Our bigger dog loves doodles.... 🤪

What I don't really get is if you want that kind of dog, why not a.... poodle? I've never owned a poodle, but those I see are friendly enough, and I know they're very, very smart. Yeah, some are groomed to look ridiculous IMO, but most around here are in standard "dog" trim and I love the look.
I used to have a Royal Standard poodle from 1973 to 1978, when my mother was dating and then married to my stepfather. Golden Retrievers are notoriously ferocious. With their tails as well as their front end.
 
Is there a political angle in this post?
No. I feel that children are not learning to cope, with being driven and taken everywhere. My older son, now 26, was one of the few that bicycled the three or so miles into town. He got that habit from a European teen tour and then from our encouragement.
 
Coyotes are one of those "unspoken problems" where I live. My wife and I live in a semi-urban environment, but we have three different packs of coyotes nearby. Small dogs, cats - family pets are frequently "lost" to these vermin. We live in a rather large community, adjacent to a local park and have two small dogs which we never let out into the yard unsupervised. I've seen coyotes in the neighborhood on a number of occasions.

In my state, coyotes are "open season" - there's no limit on taking them, and we can take them year round - as several of my buddies are fond of doing.

What most people around here don't know is that the state actually hires coyote hunters to quietly take care of the population - unbeknownst to most - which I totally support. I can't stand coyotes, the thought that one of them could attack and eat one of our precious pets.
Heaven forbid a wild animal does what it needs to survive. There are far too many 'pets' euthanized for lack of owners, I've got no issue with coyotes eating prey, they're predators.
 
I used to have a Royal Standard poodle from 1973 to 1978, when my mother was dating and then married to my stepfather. Golden Retrievers are notoriously ferocious. With their tails as well as their front end.
We had a golden retriever and several labs (growing up) and the lab tail is far more lethal!
 
Heaven forbid a wild animal does what it needs to survive. There are far too many 'pets' euthanized for lack of owners, I've got no issue with coyotes eating prey, they're predators.
There's always one in the crowd.
 
Heaven forbid a wild animal does what it needs to survive. There are far too many 'pets' euthanized for lack of owners, I've got no issue with coyotes eating prey, they're predators.
Guess you're not a dog or cat owner..... For those of us who are, our 'pets' are not exactly items like cars that can be simply replaced if they're killed by a coyote.

I don't blame the coyotes for being coyotes, including killing the dogs and cats they can catch - it's what they do - but how many dogs and cats are euthanized every year has nothing to do with anything we're discussing.
 
Can’t say I fully agree with your sentiment, especially when considering a child being hurt, but I understand the animal is a victim too.
I understand. I was just pointing out that in places where large numbers of animals are displaced, the developers and the politicians who let the developers destroy those
very habitats, never seem to relocate the animals to a better place...than just leave the populace to deal with them.
Here in Florida, the developers can essentially kill the animals without a word from the authorities. It's sickening how the bastards destroy gophers, deer and many other
species with their bulldozers. I should have made a better point at my other post. Probably too pissed off to think right.. :)
 
When the populace allows the destruction of animal habitats,, my tears are not for the humans. Actions have consequences.
Yeah, I read a bumper sticker recently that said, "When you trash the earth, the earth will trash you." Same concept.
 
There's always one in the crowd.
When you buy a pet you buy a tragedy. Almost certainly your pet will die before you. Is there a difference between the manners of death? As long as the coyotes don't do it in your view, I'd say there isn't.
 
Guess you're not a dog or cat owner..... For those of us who are, our 'pets' are not exactly items like cars that can be simply replaced if they're killed by a coyote.

I don't blame the coyotes for being coyotes, including killing the dogs and cats they can catch - it's what they do - but how many dogs and cats are euthanized every year has nothing to do with anything we're discussing.
I own both cats and dogs. And I've euthanized them as well as having them die violently. Imo, euthanizing is worse because you've had them longer. What euthanizing has to do with the threads is that pets die, and there is nothing pet owners can do to stop it...no reason to kill other animals to try to prevent it.
 
When you buy a pet you buy a tragedy. Almost certainly your pet will die before you. Is there a difference between the manners of death? As long as the coyotes don't do it in your view, I'd say there isn't.
True enough - if you don't care about your pets, who cares how or when they die?
I own both cats and dogs. And I've euthanized them as well as having them die violently. Imo, euthanizing is worse because you've had them longer. What euthanizing has to do with the threads is that pets die, and there is nothing pet owners can do to stop it...no reason to kill other animals to try to prevent it.
We all die, and there's nothing we can do to stop that. Our parents die. Does it matter if they're beaten to death while healthy, happy, living a good life, versus die of old age? If we don't witness the beating, I'd say no! Why do we even bother arresting murderers? So they speed the inevitable death ahead by a few months, years, decades - who should care? Dead is dead, amirite? Great points you're making!
 
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