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Chicago prepares for a rough night as body cam footage of police killing a 13 year old boy is about to be released

Crime is always going to exist. It's in black neighborhoods, brown neighborhoods, white neighborhoods, and mixed neighborhoods. But only certain ones have cop cars rolling up and down the streets constantly looking for reasons to harass people. Why? Because if that sort of shit was happening in white suburbia the police would have already been reformed years ago.
There are some really crappy white neighborhoods outside of Boston and in New Jersey where the white criminals there have a very adversarial relationship with the police too. Alot probably getting shot and killed too. But we don't hear about those.......
 
The special needs kid complied.
And the cop had no way of knowing that.

The trained, armor wearing, adult, did not.
Again you mention the body armor. Why?

And with what did the adult not comply?

I've also been wondering and, based on your debate "style," name, and location, have to ask: were you active on internet forums 15-20 years ago? Specifically, several forums on the EZBoard platform? Under the username BostonDave?
 
I dont think the officer should go to prison. I think we as a nation need to address why lethalforce as the number 1 go to when dealing with stress.
No, that's not what you said. You said 100% perfection 100% of the time is required when using deadly force.
 
And police should be expected to act reasonably instead of shooting first and asking questions later
This officer did act reasonably.
 
And the cop had no way of knowing that.


Again you mention the body armor. Why?

And with what did the adult not comply?

I've also been wondering and, based on your debate "style," name, and location, have to ask: were you active on internet forums 15-20 years ago? Specifically, several forums on the EZBoard platform? Under the username BostonDave?

Look, all these things give the officer an edge: Age, training, body armor.

I have been on internet forums off and on since around 2000. However, I don't believe I ever used BostonDave. If I did it must have been briefly because I don't remember it. For how long did you see that user name?
 
But here's the thing...we don't operate on what we think, we operate on what we know.
Garbage. You can never know in a situation like this until it's too late. You can't know if the kid still has a gun until he's wheeled around and possibly leveled it at you, already starting to squeeze the trigger. You can't know the gun is even loaded until lead starts making its way in your general direction.

Knowing is not required. Being reasonable is what's required. And the officer was, given the totality of circumstances, reasonable.
 
Look, all these things give the officer an edge: Age, training, body armor.
So what? Age doesn't stop a bullet. Training doesn't stop a bullet. Body armor only stops some bullets and getting shot while wearing it is still pretty much incapacitating.

You make this sound like it's supposed to be a fair fight. It isn't.

I have been on internet forums off and on since around 2000. However, I don't believe I ever used BostonDave. If I did it must have been briefly because I don't remember it. For how long did you see that user name?
It was several years, from perhaps 2002 for five years or so. It was a long shot, since there's a good chance that there's more than one Dave in Boston, and he used that name across more than one forum (and a brief Googling suggests he's still out there on other forums, based on those users' names, political inclinations, and style) and I don't see why he wouldn't keep it here also.
 
No he did not
100% he did. Kid had a gun for the whole pursuit, refusing to drop it the whole way. When he did drop it, he did so out of view of the officer, who less that a second before could see the gun in his hand. The kid suddenly turns, and the officer has half a second to decide what to do. There was no reason to assume the kid had suddenly dropped the gun after a block-long chase where he had every opportunity to do so but didn't.

Why should he be compelled to make that assumption when being wrong means death or serious physical injury?

Totality of circumstances means this was reasonable. All day. Every day.
 
It was several years, from perhaps 2002 for five years or so. It was a long shot, since there's a good chance that there's more than one Dave in Boston, and he used that name across more than one forum (and a brief Googling suggests he's still out there on other forums, based on those users' names, political inclinations, and style) and I don't see why he wouldn't keep it here also.

Not me.


As for this?

So what? Age doesn't stop a bullet. Training doesn't stop a bullet. Body armor only stops some bullets and getting shot while wearing it is still pretty much incapacitating.

Nonsense, you're missing every point by a mile. The cop knows he could've waited and it'll eat at him for the rest of his life.
 
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Nonsense, you're missing every point by a mile. The cop knows he could've waited
He knew no such thing at the time he pulled the trigger. He couldn't know.
 
There is no way the officer could have known that. Plus we're talking about South Side Chicago here..
There is absolutely a way for an officer to determine if it is a toy gun. Accurate threat assessment. This kid was killed within 20 seconds of the officer leaving his vehicle.
 
There is absolutely a way for an officer to determine if it is a toy gun. Accurate threat assessment. This kid was killed within 20 seconds of the officer leaving his vehicle.

Ok great...please inform everyone....how the officer could have determined if it was a toy gun.....ready? Go.....
 
100% he did. Kid had a gun for the whole pursuit, refusing to drop it the whole way. When he did drop it, he did so out of view of the officer, who less that a second before could see the gun in his hand. The kid suddenly turns, and the officer has half a second to decide what to do. There was no reason to assume the kid had suddenly dropped the gun after a block-long chase where he had every opportunity to do so but didn't.

Why should he be compelled to make that assumption when being wrong means death or serious physical injury?

Totality of circumstances means this was reasonable. All day. Every day.
So that is your version of the story
 
So that is your version of the story

Is there another version??? I mean ****, it's on tape for **** sake....

What did he say...that wasn't backed up on tape?
 
Ok great...please inform everyone....how the officer could have determined if it was a toy gun.....ready? Go.....
Waiting more than 20 seconds to make the determination would be the first step. Not firing in the first instant you see the perceived criminal would be a good second step. Not firing at someone that has his hands raised without a weapon would be a good third step. Did I miss something?
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No doubt it is confusing to cops as well; kids apparently used to have sling shots in their back pocket, now they're running around with Glocks tucked into their pants.
Yep, it's the entire 'environment'. Cops are feeling embattled & endangered, and they are! The more lethally efficient modern class of weaponry ubiquitously in the hands of the general public is part of that environment. We've come a long way from 38 snubbies & bolt action rifles!
 
Waiting more than 20 seconds to make the determination would be the first step. Not firing in the first instant you see the perceived criminal would be a good second step. Not firing at someone that has his hands raised without a weapon would be a good third step. Did I miss something?
View attachment 67329416
Yes. You missed the gun.
 
Waiting more than 20 seconds to make the determination would be the first step. Not firing in the first instant you see the perceived criminal would be a good second step. Not firing at someone that has his hands raised without a weapon would be a good third step. Did I miss something?
View attachment 67329416

Yea, you missed the question entirely, "..how the officer could have determined if it was a toy gun..."

Your 1st answer - They were both running, how is the officer supposed to determine it was a toy gun?

Your 2nd answer - Firing or not firing has no bearing on the officer determining it was a toy gun

Your 3rd answer - Again, has no bearing on the officer determining it was a toy gun.

It was your assertion that the officer could have determined it was a toy gun.......and your only claim to back that up was....well not firing....

Seriously?
 
Yea, you missed the question entirely, "..how the officer could have determined if it was a toy gun..."

Your 1st answer - They were both running, how is the officer supposed to determine it was a toy gun?

Your 2nd answer - Firing or not firing has no bearing on the officer determining it was a toy gun

Your 3rd answer - Again, has no bearing on the officer determining it was a toy gun.

It was your assertion that the officer could have determined it was a toy gun.......and your only claim to back that up was....well not firing....

Seriously?
Exactly. Accurate threat assessment. What would have happened if he had not fired? The child would be alive.
 
Exactly. Accurate threat assessment. What would have happened if he had not fired? The child would be alive.

Yea, there is a reason hindsight is called 20/20.....

What would you be saying if he shot the cop? That the cop knew what he was getting into?
 
Exactly. Accurate threat assessment. What would have happened if he had not fired? The child would be alive.
"The child" would have been alive if he wasn't shoooting at cars on the street at 2:30AM
 
Exactly. Accurate threat assessment. What would have happened if he had not fired? The child would be alive.
Threat assessment.. someone is running from you in the dark with a gun in their hand. They stop and hide the gun behind their back before turning to face you with their gun hand. He doesn't have x-ray vision. A reasonable officer would shoot in the situation.
 
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