Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)[W:344,639]

[MickeyW]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

I didn't say it works fast...or absolutely reliably, Captain.

But the notion behind much of the Constitution is to protect the minorities from the imposition of majorities.

There is nothing wrong with majority-rules. In fact, that is the way it should be. But the majority cannot be capricious...and arbitrary.

If you have a problem with that...deal with it.

That's just it. Democrats are constantly being capricious and arbitrary when it comes to guns and self defense of an individual. The police cannot and will not protect anyone individually! Therefore, you must be your own First Line of Defense!

Dealing with it? That is why the Demos took a shellacking 2 years ago and why Trump is so supported today! Good people are sick and tired of liberal crap!

Really?

Please explain how it took 65 of those 250 years and a civil war to free the slaves; another 89 years before the law allowed them to be treated equally with Brown v. Board of Education (1954), and another 10 years to ensure their civil rights with the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Kind of whittles down that 250 years of protections a bit doesn't it?

That's not even addressing Native Americans, Women, Asians, or classes of Whites like the Irish.

Right now people are being brainwashed into thinking common citizens do not need to own guns, that guns are a major threat to the safety and security of each and every individual. That if we enact "reasonable and rational" controls this threat would be reduced.

How many times have people heard throughout history "this much and no further," only to find that the line keeps getting redrawn further and further until people find themselves marching into mass graves?

Perhaps it is YOU who should "think things through," and stop lying to yourself and the rest of us?

Damn straight!

I think we're all familiar with how arrogant liberal elites can be, particularly those whose only claim to fame and a microphone is their family relationships. That said, I also think it's unlikely that the Republicans will lose both Houses of Congress and more likely that they'll retain both. As such, there is little likelihood of any federal law that restricts gun ownership rights as they exist at this point in time.

It is more likely, in my view, that lower court rulings, if there are any, that pertain to gun ownership rights will be upheld by a Supreme Court, without a deciding voice, not hearing such a case or not coming to a decision.

What this does do, however, is tear down the screen of liberal non-partisanship when it comes to nominations to your Supreme Court. Liberals like to claim they are nominating moderates and those who will uphold the Constitution when what they really plan and intend is to nominate Justices who will do their bidding and get approved policies and "rights" they could never manage to secure democratically.

Well stated.

Disingenuous doubletalk. What do you imagine Heller establishes, if not that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right? And do you consider McDonald a decision "like Heller?" If so, what about McDonald's ruling that the right to keep and bear arms is also fundamental?

It is only because the Court found the Second Amendment right IS fundamental that it had a basis for holding that it is incorporated in the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states, according to its long-established rules about doctrine called "substantive due process." See, e.g., Washington v. Glucksberg for a restatement of this rule that only fundamental rights--i.e. ones that are "so deeply rooted in this nation's history and traditions" that the are "essential to a scheme of ordered liberty"--may be incorporated.

Or maybe you would like the new "progressive" Court you hope to get just to ignore longstanding rules like that whenever the hell it feels like it. That's exactly what it did in Obergefell, for example, with the rule about substantive due process and fundamental rights I just mentioned. Maybe you're like Anthony Kennedy, and don't give two hoots in hell about the Constitution or the rule of law, just so long as the result can be rigged to your liking.

Stellar post!

 

[MickeyW]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

I have no problems with majority rule, as long as there are bright line protections which prevent that majority from ever abusing any minority...including the individual.

I do not believe in "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" ideology. I prefer "the needs of the many outweigh the desires of the few, or the one."

To me that translates to the rights of an individual outweigh the desires of the many. Therefore, my individual right to self-defense trumps any group desire to feel safe.

YES!!! :thumbs::thumbs:

 

[haymarket]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

YES!!! :thumbs::thumbs:

In your previous post a bit ago you claimed this

Quote Originally Posted by MickeyW View Post

-Registration leads to confiscation....it's a Fool's Folly to think otherwise!

Can you provide the statistics to show us how often that has actually happened?

 

[MickeyW]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

Your post is known as an appeal to common sense (also called a fallacy of disbelief). It is the typical fallacy used to argue in support of gun control.

Yet the facts do not support this "common sense" argument, because what the facts actually show is that every time a "rational restriction" is passed new attempts to move for more restrictions soon follow. All based on the failure of the original restrictions to actually stop any of the harms they were touted as preventing.

The bottom line for "common sense" gun control arguments is that if citizens did not have any access to firearms then there would be no firearm deaths. But the only truth to this is that if firearms did not exist at all, then and only then would there never be another firearm death. Something that will never happen because the genie is already out of that particular bottle.

So the real goal of gun control is to provide restrictions so onerous and costly that very few, if any, common citizens could legally keep and bear arms. This would then empower government forces to do what governments do best...use overwhelming force to oppress and assail those who disagree.

So basic and easy to understand....even a Conservative 5th Grader would get it. Not so with a liberally indoctrinated, 5th Grader.

 

[MickeyW]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

In your previous post a bit ago you claimed this

Can you provide the statistics to show us how often that has actually happened?

Sure, and you could easily do it too.

You mean aside from Cuba, China, Russia, and most other totalitarian states?

let's see...New Zealand, 1921 the ownership of revolvers were allowed in the name of personal defense, 1970s this list was used to confiscate all revolvers.

Canada...registration list 1990s, old guns grandfathered in, but this list is used for the state to confiscate the guns upon the death of the holder with no compensation to the estate

1996 Australia used it's list of registered semiauto hunting rifles to confiscate all those weapons.

The UK government instituted handgun registration in 1921, and about every 10 years or so they further restrict what can be owned and use the registration rolls to collect what is illegal.

How about Chicago, put in registration of long guns, used that same registration to confiscate semiauto long guns in the early 1990s

What about California, couldn't make up it's mind if the SKS was covered or not (1989), decided AFTER the registration period was closed that they needed to be registered, declared a second 'grace period' for registration...then about 5 years ago they decided that those SKSs registered during the grace period were illegal because the grace period was illegal, and in certain cities and counties sent law enforcement to the listed addresses demanding surrender of the firearm. Because there is the legal option of removing the gun from the state of CA, and these officers had no warrants, smart gun owners turned them away with the claim 'I gave it to a relative in Oregon (or whatever)' but MANY were seized with no compensation. (Cities and counties later on offered compensation for anyone who had a receipt, but the police weren't giving out receipts, only a few people who demanded them had them and they were basically notes scribbled on whatever spare paper the officer had)

Side Note, the SKS was the MOST common weapon in the hands of Korean Shop Owners who used them to defend themselves and businesses when the LA riots happened.

That is why I can never go back to my home state of Commiefornia....to live.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

Sure, and you could easily do it too.

Actually I can't. But its your point so I am happy to see you are willing to provide those stats.

Do you have them.

 

[MickeyW]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

Please continue to feel safe.

As long as my family and I are well armed and ammoed up....it's a safe bet!

For the fools who think they really have police protection from criminals.....:roll: Tinker Bell is alive!

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

In your previous post a bit ago you claimed this





Can you provide the statistics to show us how often that has actually happened?

It did happen here in Canada.

RCMP seizure of High River guns sparks probe - Canada - CBC News

If law enforcement "seizes" such an opportunity in Canada, do you think it wouldn't happen in the US?

 

[MickeyW]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

Can't tell ya how anxious I am to pull that lever over her name, Mickey. I suspect she will make a fine president...and I'm glad she and Bill have a daughter willing to speak her mind the way she is doing.

I can't tell you how anxious I am for the criminal bitch to go to prison, after all the crap she has pulled!

 

[MickeyW]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

Does not change the fact that Trump has as much chance at the WH as I do. Even the RNC know it, the only ones who have denied it are Trump supporters themselves. Independents will insure there is no Pres Trump.

That remains to be seen. Many folks will not admit that they support Trump, for fear of scapegoating by their peers!

Actually I can't. But its your point so I am happy to see you are willing to provide those stats.

Do you have them.

Posted.......and don't forget about German. First they confiscated the guns....then the books!

Think it can't happen here? It can happen anywhere. No place is totally safe from criminals....including liberal political criminals!

 

[Moot]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

And THIS is a major reason why I would never vote for Hillary Clinton.

With 80% to 90% of the public favoring "universal back ground checks"....I don't think gun control is going to be a reason for most people not to vote for her.

 

[Thrilla]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

Jesus Christ....the asinine fear-mongering "they're coming for your/our guns" insanity is just NEVER going to stop is it?

It's mind-blowing how often this crap gets spewed.

There's more guns in the USA than people.

Nobody is going to take your f'n guns.

:roll:

I almost agree with you... but as i see it, there are folks who seek to prevent people from having guns.... and no, i don't buy, for a second, they only want to prevent bad guys from getting guns, so don't even bother going there.

I have no doubt the guns I currently own are safe.... but i don't have any confidence in liberal politicians to not prevent other people from having guns.... Democrats and illiberal Liberals are heavily invested in violating that particular constitutional right.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

That's just it. Democrats are constantly being capricious and arbitrary when it comes to guns and self defense of an individual. The police cannot and will not protect anyone individually! Therefore, you must be your own First Line of Defense!

Dealing with it? That is why the Demos took a shellacking 2 years ago and why Trump is so supported today! Good people are sick and tired of liberal crap!



Damn straight!



Well stated.



Stellar post!

Okay. We'll see how it goes this time.

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

She is such a well indoctrinated young woman, telling the story of Clinton philosophy, word for word, right down to the kids at Sandy Hook.

A spokesperson for the status quo, with enhancement by way of strict gun control laws.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

Nothing like playing to peoples basic fears, not the first time wont be the last

For the majority of Americans the fear of the Dems taking there guns is not on there radar come election time

Not normally.

But THIS election there is a spot open on the SCOTUS that could turn the majority one way or the other on gun rights, with the distinct possibility of another spot opening up in the next four to eight years.

There are tens of millions of gun owners (80 - 110 million depending on the poll), Democrat, Republican, and Independent who ARE worried about that issue.

Gun rights supporters seem to rally and vote for this concern when the issue is pressed. Which was why citing this thread's source, Hillary's daughter, is so apropos.

Hillary's well-know stance on gun control is one of the reasons why I would never vote for her.

 

[imyoda]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

Scalia opinion in Heller reaffirmed the right of government to enact rules and regulations of the use of guns............... There was never anything that preclude states right to regulate before or after Heller

 

[Captain Adverse]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

With 80% to 90% of the public favoring "universal back ground checks"....I don't think gun control is going to be a reason for most people not to vote for her.

This is only true because they have been consistently sold a bill of rotten goods.

I used to support background checks when I was younger. That's because I thought only violent convicted criminals would be denied access to purchasing a weapon.

Then I realized that background checks open up the possibility of denying all sorts of people this access, thereby infringing on their right to keep and bear arms.

The current list contains several restrictions that offend my ideals. They include drug use, dishonorable discharge, persons subject to restraining orders/orders of protection, and those who renounce citizenship.

Furthermore, additional restrictions can be added under the law. There are constant attempts to add new restrictions all the time, thankfully unsuccessful so far.

If background check restrictions were limited to convicted violent offenders then I would have no problem with them either.

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

If Scotus goes to a liberal majority there will eventually be some gun controls but only pertaining to purchase and maybe gun shows. Its impossible to take guns theres more guns than humans in this country.

More worrisome to me is huge taxs or regulations on ammunition.

At some point in time gun control will make ownership expensive, limited and inconvenient. That will not just apply to new sales. First you have to get firearm owners to buy into gun control. That is happening right now and a guess would be some 30% to 80% of firearm owners now support some form gun control. The time to start reversing that is now.

 

[matchlight]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

I have repeatedly stated that I have no problem with the Court deciding in favor of the winning party in Heller.

More doubletalk: The winning party in a Supreme Court decision is the winning party precisely because a majority of the Court decided in its favor.

More disingenuousness: Your statement is nothing but a paraphrasing of "I have repeatedly stated that I agree with what the majority decided in Heller," while everyone here knows very well you have not.

What I objected to was the invention of a new right that had not been there for the first two centuries of our nation.

Of course the individual right to keep and bear arms was widely recognized in English common law by the late 1600's, as Heller carefully documents. That was the same law used in America when it was populated by English subjects, and it did not suddenly change when the shots were fired at Concord.

"t has always been widely understood that the Second Amendment, like the First and Fourth Amendments, codified a pre-existing right."

What you object to is the majority decision in Heller. Various silly remarks you have made about that decision show that you don't understand the complex, detailed reasoning in it. That would require you to have read it very carefully, and as someone who has done that, several times, I am certain you have not.

And even then I could accept the entire "individual right" thing as an evolution of the militia right as the militia waned in actual participation and reality

That is just gobbledygook. Justice Scalia based his conclusion that the right is individual and unconnected with militia service on the text of the Second Amendment, in particular on various kinds of evidence of what the terms "the people," "keep arms," and "bear arms" were taken to mean in 1791.

if the Court at the same time also recognized the same corresponding evolution of government regulation of firearms as they developed over time far far beyond anything the Founders could have envisioned.

But the Court did do that. It recognized that the government regulation of firearms at issue in the case--a District of Columbia prohibition on the possession of usable handguns in the home--had developed "far far beyond anything the Founders could have envisioned." That's exactly why it held that prohibition unconstitutional.

But Scalia played politics and his scope was intentionally limited to reward only his political allies.

You haven't the faintest idea if he played politics, or poker, or piano--you are just yammering.

 

[MickeyW]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

With 80% to 90% of the public favoring "universal back ground checks"....I don't think gun control is going to be a reason for most people not to vote for her.

If that is true and I really think it's a crock of ****, then they are being duped by the lies of the anti-gun groups!

What most people don't seem to realize, is that there is a huge Black Market of guns out there and they are as easy to obtain as illegal drugs...if you have the money. BGCs are nearly useless, except to penalize the law abiding citizens.

I almost agree with you... but as i see it, there are folks who seek to prevent people from having guns.... and no, i don't buy, for a second, they only want to prevent bad guys from getting guns, so don't even bother going there.

I have no doubt the guns I currently own are safe.... but i don't have any confidence in liberal politicians to not prevent other people from having guns.... Democrats and illiberal Liberals are heavily invested in violating that particular constitutional right.

Heavily.

She is such a well indoctrinated young woman, telling the story of Clinton philosophy, word for word, right down to the kids at Sandy Hook.

A spokesperson for the status quo, with enhancement by way of strict gun control laws.

Yep.

This is only true because they have been consistently sold a bill of rotten goods.

I used to support background checks when I was younger. That's because I thought only violent convicted criminals would be denied access to purchasing a weapon.

Then I realized that background checks open up the possibility of denying all sorts of people this access, thereby infringing on their right to keep and bear arms.

The current list contains several restrictions that offend my ideals. They include drug use, dishonorable discharge, persons subject to restraining orders/orders of protection, and those who renounce citizenship.

Furthermore, additional restrictions can be added under the law. There are constant attempts to add new restrictions all the time, thankfully unsuccessful so far.

If background checks were limited to convicted violent offenders then I would have no problem with them either.

Ditto!

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

Scalia opinion in Heller reaffirmed the right of government to enact rules and regulations of the use of guns............... There was never anything that preclude states right to regulate before or after Heller

What or who's right is excluded from the constitution. Please explain this exception you believe is present? Do quote and provide verifiable information.

I missed the clause that says the constitution does not apply to...... please point it out.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

The Clintons remind me of these guys:

:roll:

 

[MickeyW]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

Okay. We'll see how it goes this time.

Last time I voted Democrat was in 1968........and there hasn't been a Demo worth a crap, since.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

It did happen here in Canada.

RCMP seizure of High River guns sparks probe - Canada - CBC News

If law enforcement "seizes" such an opportunity in Canada, do you think it wouldn't happen in the US?

I realize that it has happened. But again, an anecdotal example is hardly sufficient. I asked for the data that shows us how often registration leads to confiscation.

Can you provide that so we can determine if this is just the oddball occurrence in some foreign nation or is it a real serious problem that happens with alarming regularity?

 

[haymarket]

Re: Chelsea Clinton: Now that Scalia’s Gone We Can Enact Gun Control (VIDEO)

That remains to be seen. Many folks will not admit that they support Trump, for fear of scapegoating by their peers!



Posted.......and don't forget about German. First they confiscated the guns....then the books!

Think it can't happen here? It can happen anywhere. No place is totally safe from criminals....including liberal political criminals!

Where is it posted? I see no such data provided by you to tell us how often registration leads to confiscation. You said you had the data. Where is it?

Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
In your previous post a bit ago you claimed this

Can you provide the statistics to show us how often that has actually happened?

your reply to my request for the data to determine frequency

Sure, and you could easily do it too.

So where is it?