CDC recent data: lots of good information

[Bullseye]

Your boy Trump spent MONTHS raging against the use of masks and tried to use withholding of federal funding to the states to force them to not have mask mandates. You did this.

"Raging"? Nope, bull****. From early on the message was "wear masks, socially distance, and wash your hands". Trump did try some persuasion with opening up but not wearing masks wasn't part of that. And yea, he was frequently questioned about his not masking up; to which is constantly said it was important to wear masks.

 

[JasperL]

Ok, fine. You're entitled to your opinion.

Can you explain why the 6% figure is interesting?

Is an error rate, share of incomplete death certificates, interesting to you or do you disagree that's what the figure is showing?

Because it's not actually an "opinion" that COVID kills people by attacking and therefore compromising, causing a failure in, some critical bodily organ - heart, lungs, etc. and a properly completed death certificate would give some indication of what exactly caused death. "COVID" by itself is useless for determining that, which is why only 6% show that as the only cause, because it is an incomplete explanation of what happened, how that person died.

 

[year2late]

Many older people with covid-19 would have lived for years or decades if they didn't have asthma, high blood pressure, terminal cancer, terminal COPD and other lethal ailments. Funny how for only $29,000 each they all were claimed to have died of covid-19.

Since many were of age to receive medicare, why do you not look into what the reimbursement is for a patient with with pneumonia . Medicare reimbursement sucks. Hint, hospitals are essentially given a specific amount for that diagnosis code. Seeing that with covid 19, hospitals have had to adjust their facilities, increase amounts of costly drugs they deliver, increase numbers of ICU admissions, increase the amounts of staff they need - which may include very pricey travel and registry nurses ....you may eventually realize that that extra amount is a drop in the bucket.

In addition, those that recover from the pneumonia associated with Covid-19 are taking longer to discharge . Some get off ventilators only to find themselves on high flow oxygen oxygen for prolonged periods of time, which keeps the patients in the hospital for longer periods. Cost of high flow plus cost of operating (man power and supplies for upkeep and delivery). I would have loved to have the foresight to buy stock in Vapotherm.

You should come to realize that that 29,000 or 39,000 was hardly a windfall for hospitals.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Fake numbers bought at $29,000 for each falsely reported covid-19 death.

Why does Trump use an intensive testing regime at the WH?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Moderate Right]

Thought you might have an actual point somewhere, but you're just trolling. I knew better than to engage assuming you'd want to discuss this like adults, versus little children. My fault! Shame on ME!

Might as well talk to the puppy at my feet. He's being a good little boy today.

Thought you might have an actual point somewhere, but you're just trolling. I knew better than to engage assuming you'd want to discuss this like adults, versus little children. My fault! Shame on ME!

Might as well talk to the puppy at my feet. He's being a good little boy today.

 

[JasperL]

Thought you might have an actual point somewhere, but you're just trolling. I knew better than to engage assuming you'd want to discuss this like adults, versus little children. My fault! Shame on ME!

Might as well talk to the puppy at my feet. He's being a good little boy today.

Cool. You're playing the 'parrot' game, like a toddler! :applaud

Quote to live by … – The Vue Post.

 

[Moderate Right]

Cool. You're playing the 'parrot' game, like a toddler! :applaud

Quote to live by … – The Vue Post.

I'm trying to talk to you in the only language you understand.

 

[Bullseye]

Can you explain why the 6% figure is interesting?

Is an error rate, share of incomplete death certificates, interesting to you or do you disagree that's what the figure is showing?

Because it's not actually an "opinion" that COVID kills people by attacking and therefore compromising, causing a failure in, some critical bodily organ - heart, lungs, etc. and a properly completed death certificate would give some indication of what exactly caused death. "COVID" by itself is useless for determining that, which is why only 6% show that as the only cause, because it is an incomplete explanation of what happened, how that person died.

If you don't find it "interesting" or can't grasp the significance, move along.

 

[justabubba]

What?

Dead people cannot make a claim.

You do know that Many older people with the flu would have lived for years or decades if they didn't have asthma, high blood pressure, cancer, COPD etc.

When they have those conditions but die because they have the flu it is counted as a
flu death.

yea, like they are going to listen to the logic and reason you have provided

 

[JasperL]

I'm trying to talk to you in the only language you understand.

It's not me who doesn't understand how COVID (and cancer, and the flu, and......) kills people, and who therefore thinks it's meaningful that 6% of death certificates only (and erroneously/incompletely) list COVID as the cause of death. :shrug:

 

[JasperL]

If you don't find it "interesting" or can't grasp the significance, move along.

It's not significant, except as a rate of error or incompleteness. If you disagree, explain if you can.

This and things like it is why there's such a divide on COVID issues. I've seen online people point to that figure to show, supposedly, that COVID doesn't kill people but that all these pre-existing conditions are responsible for people dying. It's false, untrue. And of course you can't explain why the number is meaningful, because it's just not, except as an indication of how many death certificates weren't completed properly, which doesn't make a meaningful point except that some people don't know what they're doing, or get sloppy, or careless, or are lazy, don't care, when completing the document. Why do we care? Who knows.

 

[Bullseye]

It's not significant, except as a rate of error or incompleteness. If you disagree, explain if you can. I'm sure you can't.

Or, maybe there just were no other comorbidities? If there's nothing else to list it's not an error or incompleteness.

 

[Moderate Right]

It's not me who doesn't understand how COVID (and cancer, and the flu, and......) kills people, and who therefore thinks it's meaningful that 6% of death certificates only (and erroneously/incompletely) list COVID as the cause of death. :shrug:

You are a fact denier. Cancer is the second leading cause of death in the US and you say that it doesn't kill anyone. Then you say Trump is responsible for 183,000 Covid deaths while saying at the same time that people don't die from Covid. Please make up your mind.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

You are a fact denier. Cancer is the second leading cause of death in the US and you say that it doesn't kill anyone. Then you say Trump is responsible for 183,000 Covid deaths while saying at the same time that people don't die from Covid. Please make up your mind.

He did not say either of the things you claim he did.

It's bad enough that you start too many threads and don't defend your OP, it is worse when you post outright lies about what you just quoted.

 

[NoParty]

This is the latest CD data dump - for those whose interest goes beyond spouting "Trump murdered 180,000" this page and its links are a treasure trove

One of the interesting tidbits I came across:



And then there's this (yes it's Townhall, but it links to NYT) Looks like some tests detect the virus at levels so low so as to not be significant.

So they are saying they used data from intentional and unintentional injury such as blowing your own head off, having someone else blow your head off, vehicle collisions AND you had a minute trace of Covid when autopsied to determine if the economy should be destroyed by locking down? Makes perfect sense to follow these genius, expert scientists!

 

[JasperL]

Or, maybe there just were no other comorbidities? If there's nothing else to list it's not an error or incompleteness.

"COVID" doesn't kill people. Heart failure, respiratory failure, etc. does. If you say someone died from "COVID" and that's it, you've not described what actually caused the death. Typically, per the CDC, the progression is like this COVID ==> _______? ====> ______? ===> Death It's never COVID ===> death. Something specific in the body failed, and the list describes what did fail, that caused death.

These are some actual causes of death:

Respiratory failure - 54,803
Cardiac arrest - 20,210
Heart failure - 10,562
Renal failure - 13,693
Sepsis - 14,053 (which then leads to other organ failures)

Etc.....

The list is at your link: COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

 

[JasperL]

So they are saying they used data from intentional and unintentional injury such as blowing your own head off, having someone else blow your head off, vehicle collisions AND you had a minute trace of Covid when autopsied to determine if the economy should be destroyed by locking down? Makes perfect sense to follow these genius, expert scientists!

No, "they" aren't saying anything like that. You are making it up because you didn't read the table or don't have a clue how to interpret it.

 

[Bullseye]

"COVID" doesn't kill people. Heart failure, respiratory failure, etc. does. If you say someone died from "COVID" and that's it, you've not described what actually caused the death. Typically, per the CDC, the progression is like this COVID ==> _______? ====> ______? ===> Death It's never COVID ===> death. Something specific in the body failed, and the list describes what did fail, that caused death.

These are some actual causes of death:

Respiratory failure - 54,803
Cardiac arrest - 20,210
Heart failure - 10,562
Renal failure - 13,693
Sepsis - 14,053 (which then leads to other organ failures)

Etc.....

The list is at your link: COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

Did you read the paragraph at the top of the list? Did you read the title of the table? Do you understand the meaning of the the word comorbidity? COVID on it's own can cause death on a health person, BUT, if you suffer from some of the the comorbidities they can contribute to death.

 

[JasperL]

You are a fact denier. Cancer is the second leading cause of death in the US and you say that it doesn't kill anyone.

It's truly bizarre that you're intentionally acting like someone too stupid to understand the simplest of concepts. You're insisting that we assume that of you. Why?

Then you say Trump is responsible for 183,000 Covid deaths

That's a lie.

 

[JasperL]

Did you read the paragraph at the top of the list? Did you read the title of the table? Do you understand the meaning of the the word comorbidity? COVID on it's own can cause death on a health person, BUT, if you suffer from some of the the comorbidities they can contribute to death.

Let's quote it:

Comorbidities
Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned.

Why did you ignore the "causes"?

And no, "COVID" doesn't cause death. COVID impacts some organ or function, such as the lungs, causing people to essentially drown because their lungs cannot absorb oxygen, and THAT is what caused death. Or COVID leads to a heart attack, and that is what caused death.

My goodness - this is really simple. If I stab you and you die, the "stabbing" didn't cause your death. Maybe I hit an artery and you died of massive blood loss. The blood loss is what killed you. So the death certificate says blood loss, as a result of a stabbing.

 

[Bullseye]

Let's quote it:



Why did you ignore the "causes"?

And no, "COVID" doesn't cause death. COVID impacts some organ or function, such as the lungs, causing people to essentially drown because their lungs cannot absorb oxygen, and THAT is what caused death. Or COVID leads to a heart attack, and that is what caused death.

This is mindless. The virus CAUSES those conditions COMORBIDITIES are conditions you have BEFORE YOU catch the virus; the weaken your system and make it hard to fight off the virus.

My goodness - this is really simple. If I stab you and you die, the "stabbing" didn't cause your death. Maybe I hit an artery and you died of massive blood loss. The blood loss is what killed you. So the death certificate says blood loss, as a result of a stabbing.

COVID can kill on its own. Do you understand "contributing" - IF you suffer from one or more of those AND CATCH COVID the effects of the virus AND the comorbidities you have will work together to kill you. But you can die JUST FROM THE VIRUS. The virus doesn't cause diabetes, alzheimers or obesity, for example.

 

[Deuce]

This exact right wing propaganda has been retweeted by Herman Cain... who already died of COVID-19.

 

[Deuce]

You are a fact denier. Cancer is the second leading cause of death in the US and you say that it doesn't kill anyone. Then you say Trump is responsible for 183,000 Covid deaths while saying at the same time that people don't die from Covid. Please make up your mind.

Most medical records will list more than one thing.

The actual cause of death will be "respiratory failure."

But that didn't just happen on its own. COVID caused the respiratory failure, so it will also be listed on the death certificate.

Is that too ****ing confusing?

 

[Integrityrespec]

This is the latest CD data dump - for those whose interest goes beyond spouting "Trump murdered 180,000" this page and its links are a treasure trove

One of the interesting tidbits I came across:



And then there's this (yes it's Townhall, but it links to NYT) Looks like some tests detect the virus at levels so low so as to not be significant.

On the CDC website it says only 6% of Covid deaths are actually only Covid deaths. All others (94%) were from at least 2.6 other serious illnesses.
COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

 

[Hamish Howl]

On the CDC website it says only 6% of Covid deaths are actually only Covid deaths. All others (94%) were from at least 2.6 other serious illnesses.
COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

CDC has not reduced the death count related to COVID-19 - ABC News