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CDC recent data: lots of good information

minnie616 said:
Many who died from the flu were older, had diabetes, asthma, high blood pressure, etc. but because they caught the flu and that cased their death.

The Covid 19 deaths are no exception.

Many older people with diabetes, asthma, high blood pressure , etc conditions would have lived several Years longer if they had gotten the flu or had not gotten Covid 19.
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Bullseye said:
Good point; had those people not been wantonly exposed to the virus under order of the government they likely WOULD have continued to live.
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minnie616 said:
COVID-19 is a virus don’t make a political.
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Bullseye said:
No, it's not. But the people taking actions ARE political. Governors, mayors, other elected and appointed officials, e.g the government, made the decisions, and some of them are extremely bad.
....
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It seems you are the one trying to make this tread political not I.

noonereal said:
The CDC is bit another great American institution that has been corrupted by Trump.
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Bullseye said:
As I said in the OP I started this thread for people more interested in the data and facts around COVID rather than those more into "Trump! :twisted:" That would be you.
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Bullseye said:
Good point; had those people not been wantonly exposed to the virus under order of the government they likely WOULD have continued to live.
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:lol:
 
noonereal said:
Fact, teh CDC has been undermined as an honest institution by Trump. Fact.
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Yeah, until his presidency, it was the gold standard of medicine.

Now it's just something else Trump shat on to entertain the geeks.
 
Bullseye said:
This is the latest CD data dump - for those whose interest goes beyond spouting "Trump murdered 180,000" this page and its links are a treasure trove

One of the interesting tidbits I came across:



And then there's this (yes it's Townhall, but it links to NYT) Looks like some tests detect the virus at levels so low so as to not be significant.
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What’s your point regarding the CDC data? The data shows that the two biggest causes of death listed in addition to Covid-19 are respiratory failure and pneumonia both of which we know are CAUSED by Covid-19. We also know that people who have conditions like diabetes and heart problems, two other contributors listed, are more likely to die if they are infected with Covid-19. Nothing new here.

The Times article does not mention “overtesting” in fact the opposite is true. That appears to be something Townhall added.

From the Times:

“Researchers say the solution is not to test less, or to skip testing people without symptoms, as recently suggested by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Instead, new data underscore the need for more widespread use of rapid tests, even if they are less sensitive.

“The decision not to test asymptomatic people is just really backward,” said Dr. Michael Mina, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, referring to the C.D.C. recommendation.”

The point of the article is that too many people who are not infectious may be flagged by the current procedures. They have the virus but probably can not infect others. (Not mentioned in the article is that they may also not have immunity because their infection was so minor or that they may have been infectious earlier but their viral load has dissipated.)

What is needed is more testing so that we can stop the deaths and the scientists are proposing that we use tests that produce faster results and are more likely to not flag the non infectious cases.

Townhall seems think this is political, but it is just the scientists trying to figure out how to save more lives by making testing, quarantine and contact tracing more effective.

Out of 215 countries on worldometer ranked by deaths per million population we are number 205 out of 215 with 215 being the worst. We need to do a better job and improving our contact tracing would be a big step in the right direction.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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Bullseye said:
Good point; had those people not been wantonly exposed to the virus under order of the government they likely WOULD have continued to live.
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Your boy Trump spent MONTHS raging against the use of masks and tried to use withholding of federal funding to the states to force them to not have mask mandates. You did this.
 
Bullseye said:
This is the latest CD data dump - for those whose interest goes beyond spouting "Trump murdered 180,000" this page and its links are a treasure trove
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It's not clear to me why the 6% number is interesting. People don't die from "COVID" but because the virus causes a breakdown somewhere - heart, lungs, etc. So the 6% is telling us an error rate - the percentage of death certificates not filled out correctly or completely.

And then there's this[/URL] (yes it's Townhall, but it links to NYT) Looks like some tests detect the virus at levels so low so as to not be significant.
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Here's that link: Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. - The New York Times

The problem noted in the NYT article is the sensitive tests also detect the virus in the earliest stages, which is a very good thing, but also people who have recovered or who will never be contagious, which is a very bad thing. So the solution is to retest those people with low levels...

Ultimately the 'solution' to that problem are the rapid tests that I guess we'll see any day now. They require higher loads to test positive, but they're cheap and fast so it would be easy to retest someone effectively.

Anyway, that story by the liberal fake news NYT was very interesting. It surprised me that the experts had no idea how sensitive the testing companies had made the tests, and that the sensitivity levels didn't have any scientific basis that I could see. Worse is that the results didn't include any hint as to the viral load - just a yes or no. If the results included that doctors and public health authorities could use the information to determine next steps, but they were acting blind.
 
Moderate Right said:
Please refer to the OP.
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That doesn't answer my question.

The 6% number is useless except to indicate what share of death certificates were incomplete. No one dies from "COVID" but they do die from complications arising from it - lung, heart failure for example, pneumonia, etc. So a death certificate that only lists "COVID 19" as the cause of death is missing critical information about how the patient actually died. So the death certificate is incomplete, wrong. It's perhaps interesting I guess to know what percentage of death certificates were incomplete, but doesn't tell us anything useful beyond that.

And the NYT reporting on testing was interesting. I addressed that on the merits. If you disagree with my comments on either please let me know. I'm not denying any "facts."
 
JasperL said:
That doesn't answer my question.

The 6% number is useless except to indicate what share of death certificates were incomplete. No one dies from "COVID" but they do die from complications arising from it - lung, heart failure for example, pneumonia, etc. So a death certificate that only lists "COVID 19" as the cause of death is missing critical information about how the patient actually died. So the death certificate is incomplete, wrong. It's perhaps interesting I guess to know what percentage of death certificates were incomplete, but doesn't tell us anything useful beyond that.

And the NYT reporting on testing was interesting. I addressed that on the merits. If you disagree with my comments on either please let me know. I'm not denying any "facts."
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According to you guys, Trump murdered 183,000 people of something where you say no one dies from Covid. Where's the facts on any of that?
 
Moderate Right said:
According to you guys, Trump murdered 183,000 people of something where you say no one dies from Covid. Where's the facts on any of that?
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No one dies from "cancer" either. Cancer invades the heart, lungs, liver, brain, kidney, bones, whatever, and then that organ or many organs begin to fail, killing the patient. So they die from organ failure (generally) not from the "cancer" itself.

Same thing with COVID. The virus causes other organs to fail, and it's that failure that kills the patient. The 6% that listed only "COVID 19" are incomplete because they don't tell us anything about which organs failed, ultimately causing death.
 
JasperL said:
No one dies from "cancer" either. Cancer invades the heart, lungs, liver, brain, kidney, bones, whatever, and then that organ or many organs begin to fail, killing the patient. So they die from organ failure (generally) not from the "cancer" itself.

Same thing with COVID. The virus causes other organs to fail, and it's that failure that kills the patient. The 6% that listed only "COVID 19" are incomplete because they don't tell us anything about which organs failed, ultimately causing death.
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Maybe you can offer up proof that Trump murdered 183,000 Americans.

FastStats - Leading Causes of Death

Guess you were wrong about cancer not killing people.
 
JasperL said:
It's not clear to me why the 6% number is interesting. People don't die from "COVID" but because the virus causes a breakdown somewhere - heart, lungs, etc. So the 6% is telling us an error rate - the percentage of death certificates not filled out correctly or completely.
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<SARC>[Quite right, and people don't die from "Motor Vehicle Accidents" they only die when their heart, lungs, and/or brain stop working sufficiently well to sustain life.

That **P*R*O*V*E*S** that no one ever dies from "Motor Vehicle Accidents" and that **P*R*O*V*E*S** that all of those (unconstitutionally imposed) "government imposed" so-called "safety regulations" are totally unnecessary </SARC>[- right?

[The above has been specifically and officially approved and endorsed by "Devoted Online Lovers of Trump" Inc. (a non-partisan, independent, research and analysis organization exempt from federal taxation that is dedicated to bringing you the true truth and not the false truth that anyone who doesn't believe 100% of what Donald Trump says tries to tell you the so-called "facts" are), "Pro-Life United Gun Enthusiasts and Manufacturers for Jesus", and “"The ‘First Amendment Rights Trust’ Foundation”.]
 
Moderate Right said:
Maybe you can offer up proof that Trump murdered 183,000 Americans.

FastStats - Leading Causes of Death

Guess you were wrong about cancer not killing people.
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I never claimed Trump "murdered" 183,000 people, so why would I offer proof for a claim I've never made? Why don't you offer proof Trump murdered 183,000 people??!!! HUH??!!

And you're ignoring the point, I assume pretending not to understand it, because it's very simple actually. Cancer absolutely kills people, but it's because the cancer either directly causes the organ in which it originated to fail, or by becoming malignant and then spreading throughout the body. Eventually one or more of the organs cancer invades then fails, and it's that organ failure or failures that kills the patient.

"Prostate cancer" kills about 33,000 or so per year, and that's what killed my father. But it wasn't the cancer of the prostate that killed him - one treatment is to remove the prostate entirely, with no ill effects - but that the prostate cancer became malignant and eventually caused multiple organ failure. It invaded his bones, and he broke his arm in bed because the cancer had weakened the bones to nothing. Maybe you haven't watched this happen in real time to a loved one, which is a blessing, but everyone who has knows how cancer spreads and kills.

If you don't understand this, I'll quit trying to explain, because you don't want to understand. I might as well try to explain this to my new 12 week old puppy.
 
JasperL said:
I never claimed Trump "murdered" 183,000 people, so why would I offer proof for a claim I've never made? Why don't you offer proof Trump murdered 183,000 people??!!! HUH??!!

And you're ignoring the point, I assume pretending not to understand it, because it's very simple actually. Cancer absolutely kills people, but it's because the cancer either directly causes the organ in which it originated to fail, or by becoming malignant and then spreading throughout the body. Eventually one or more of the organs cancer invades then fails, and it's that organ failure or failures that kills the patient.

"Prostate cancer" kills about 33,000 or so per year, and that's what killed my father. But it wasn't the cancer of the prostate that killed him - one treatment is to remove the prostate entirely, with no ill effects - but that the prostate cancer became malignant and eventually caused multiple organ failure. It invaded his bones, and he broke his arm in bed because the cancer had weakened the bones to nothing. Maybe you haven't watched this happen in real time to a loved one, which is a blessing, but everyone who has knows how cancer spreads and kills.

If you don't understand this, I'll quit trying to explain, because you don't want to understand. I might as well try to explain this to my new 12 week old puppy.
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I posted facts that prove cancer is the second leading cause of death in the US while you say that cancer doesn't kill anyone. Why are you a fact denier? How about this, guns don't kill anyone either. Has anyone ever been killed by a gun? Now think this one through before you answer.
 
Moderate Right said:
I posted facts that prove cancer is the second leading cause of death in the US while you say that cancer doesn't kill anyone. Why are you a fact denier? How about this, guns don't kill anyone either. Has anyone ever been killed by a gun? Now think this one through before you answer.
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Thought you might have an actual point somewhere, but you're just trolling. I knew better than to engage assuming you'd want to discuss this like adults, versus little children. My fault! Shame on ME!

Might as well talk to the puppy at my feet. He's being a good little boy today.
 
minnie616 said:
Many who died from the flu were older, had diabetes, asthma, high blood pressure, etc. but because they caught the flu and that cased their death.

The Covid 19 deaths are no exception.

Many older people with diabetes, asthma, high blood pressure , etc conditions would have lived several Years longer if they had gotten the flu or had not gotten Covid 19.
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Many older people with covid-19 would have lived for years or decades if they didn't have asthma, high blood pressure, terminal cancer, terminal COPD and other lethal ailments. Funny how for only $29,000 each they all were claimed to have died of covid-19.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:

As usual?
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Nope, not at all. All your pretty, complex spreadsheets convey no semantic to the discuss. As an old statistics prof of mine said: "just because you can perform mathematical operations on numbers and arrange them neatly in spreadsheets, does mean you SHOULD, nor does it mean they'll meaning anything when you do.

I'm impressed with your skills in the spreadsheet domain. However the data we should be looking at today isn't all that gobbledegook. We need to look at how many cases we have, what their statuses are, and how many people have recovered.
Currently about 55% of all recorded cases have recovered.
The number of recovered case is approaching eclipsing the number of current cases by one million. Of the the current cases less than one percent are classed as serious or severe.

See how easy it is?
 
joko104 said:
Many older people with covid-19 would have lived for years or decades if they didn't have asthma, high blood pressure, terminal cancer, terminal COPD and other lethal ailments. Funny how for only $29,000 each they all were claimed to have died of covid-19.
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What?

Dead people cannot make a claim.

You do know that Many older people with the flu would have lived for years or decades if they didn't have asthma, high blood pressure, cancer, COPD etc.

When they have those conditions but die because they have the flu it is counted as a
flu death.
 
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JasperL said:
It's not clear to me why the 6% number is interesting. People don't die from "COVID" but because the virus causes a breakdown somewhere - heart, lungs, etc. So the 6% is telling us an error rate - the percentage of death certificates not filled out correctly or completely.



Here's that link: Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be. - The New York Times

The problem noted in the NYT article is the sensitive tests also detect the virus in the earliest stages, which is a very good thing, but also people who have recovered or who will never be contagious, which is a very bad thing. So the solution is to retest those people with low levels...

Ultimately the 'solution' to that problem are the rapid tests that I guess we'll see any day now. They require higher loads to test positive, but they're cheap and fast so it would be easy to retest someone effectively.

Anyway, that story by the liberal fake news NYT was very interesting. It surprised me that the experts had no idea how sensitive the testing companies had made the tests, and that the sensitivity levels didn't have any scientific basis that I could see. Worse is that the results didn't include any hint as to the viral load - just a yes or no. If the results included that doctors and public health authorities could use the information to determine next steps, but they were acting blind.
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Ok, fine. You're entitled to your opinion.
 
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