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British Muslims becoming a nation within a nation, Trevor Phillips warns

gunner

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In the most comprehensive study into the attitudes of British Muslims, Phillips said:

"Commenting on a ground-breaking survey, Trevor Phillips said we are “in danger of sacrificing a generation of young British people to values that are antithetical to the beliefs of most of us, including many Muslims”[...]

"He called for a new, tougher approach to integration and the abandonment of “the failed policy of multiculturalism"[..]

"One in 25 Muslims (four per cent) said they felt at least some sympathy with people who took part in suicide bombings, while a similar proportion said they had some sympathy with “people who commit terrorist actions as a form of political protest”.
A quarter – 25 per cent – said they could understand why British school girls could be attracted to become “jihadi brides” overseas.

Less than half (47 per cent) agreed that Muslims should do more to tackle the causes of extremism in the Muslim community.

52 per cent believed homosexuality should not be legal in Britain, 39 per cent agreed “wives should always obey their husbands”, and 31 per cent said it was acceptable for a man to have more than one wife."

British Muslims becoming a nation within a nation, Trevor Phillips warns

Yes, Muslims are different. No, we shouldn't accept that - Telegraph


Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds | UK news | The Guardian

Should we be surprised? No, not at all. You just need to visit some of these enclaves within England, and you'll soon realize, that these attitudes are totally in-keeping, with their segregated existence.
 

OrphanSlug

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I've given up on this debate, the fight for forcing multiculturalism means more than its plausibility.
 

Manc Skipper

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Another Muslim-bashing thread. Oh dear.

"What do British Muslims really think? That was the question asked in a Channel 4 survey, the conclusions of which have sparked yet another round of Muslim-bashing.

The study's lead, Trevor Phillips, declared that Britain’s Muslims are “becoming a nation within a nation.” Phillips’ conclusions about the hostility of British Muslims to mainstream society, their insularity and conservatism, have seized the headlines, amplifying Islamophobia and mistrust. Yet these claims are not supported by his own data. ..."

Trevor Phillips' research on British Muslims is dangerous and wrong. No wonder Islamophobia is on the rise | Voices | The Independent
 

NO1

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It seems the policy of multiculturalism has been giving up local culture and values to competitor group with different set of values.
 

Grant

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Another Muslim-bashing thread. Oh dear.

"What do British Muslims really think? That was the question asked in a Channel 4 survey, the conclusions of which have sparked yet another round of Muslim-bashing.

The study's lead, Trevor Phillips, declared that Britain’s Muslims are “becoming a nation within a nation.” Phillips’ conclusions about the hostility of British Muslims to mainstream society, their insularity and conservatism, have seized the headlines, amplifying Islamophobia and mistrust. Yet these claims are not supported by his own data. ..."

Trevor Phillips' research on British Muslims is dangerous and wrong. No wonder Islamophobia is on the rise | Voices | The Independent
If you read the responses you'll find it is actually Muslims who are doing the "bashing". No one else supports terror.
 

Grant

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It seems the policy of multiculturalism has been giving up local culture and values to competitor group with different set of values.
The real question is why this should have been a shock to so many people. And clearly many can still not accept what's happening. Islamic leaders predicted this would happen and wholeheartedly supported it, while anyone who repeated what they said was a racist or Islamophobe.

It's hard to have much sympathy for a culture this stupid, a sentiment shared by many Muslim leaders.

Europe: Suicide by Jihad
 

Medusa

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having a commonwealth has some responsibilities ,letting those immigrants from commonwealth open sharia courts is not democracy .
 

NO1

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The real question is why this should have been a shock to so many people. And clearly many can still not accept what's happening. Islamic leaders predicted this would happen and wholeheartedly supported it, while anyone who repeated what they said was a racist or Islamophobe.

It's hard to have much sympathy for a culture this stupid, a sentiment shared by many Muslim leaders.

Europe: Suicide by Jihad
In Israel there is a saying that Europeans allways wake up late, I mean in Israel we are very familier with the Arab culture and values so when the whole wave of immigrants to Europe began it was pretty clear that there will be clash of values. There is huge differences in the social norms and culture, and someone needs to address it.
As you said the freedom of speech against Muslims or Islam is very limited so it's one of the problems, I believe there is nothing that above criticism and in this case it seems people use freedom of speech in order to ignore the differences between the cultures.
I don't know how you can minimize these gaps but it will take time, there are no instant solutions here and probably it will start in the second or third genration of the immigrants.
 

Grant

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In Israel there is a saying that Europeans allways wake up late, I mean in Israel we are very familier with the Arab culture and values so when the whole wave of immigrants to Europe began it was pretty clear that there will be clash of values. There is huge differences in the social norms and culture, and someone needs to address it.
As you said the freedom of speech against Muslims or Islam is very limited so it's one of the problems, I believe there is nothing that above criticism and in this case it seems people use freedom of speech in order to ignore the differences between the cultures.
I don't know how you can minimize these gaps but it will take time, there are no instant solutions here and probably it will start in the second or third genration of the immigrants.
The second generation seem as bad or worse than the first.

The only way the democracies can survive, and their cultures preserved, is to ignore all religious demands made by Muslims, to ignore their protests and to prosecute them severely for inciting any violence. They must align themselves with their new culture, as the majority of Muslims desire, rather than having any no-go zones, sharia compliant courts, or anything of that nature. If the government doesn't protect their citizens, especially the most vulnerable then, as is happening in Northern Europe, vigilante groups will form. That's when the situation will become much worse.

It's good to hear the Israeli perspective because many in western Europe are finally beginning to understand their situation.
 

Tigerace117

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In Israel there is a saying that Europeans allways wake up late, I mean in Israel we are very familier with the Arab culture and values so when the whole wave of immigrants to Europe began it was pretty clear that there will be clash of values. There is huge differences in the social norms and culture, and someone needs to address it.
As you said the freedom of speech against Muslims or Islam is very limited so it's one of the problems, I believe there is nothing that above criticism and in this case it seems people use freedom of speech in order to ignore the differences between the cultures.
I don't know how you can minimize these gaps but it will take time, there are no instant solutions here and probably it will start in the second or third genration of the immigrants.

The second generation seem as bad or worse than the first.

The only way the democracies can survive, and their cultures preserved, is to ignore all religious demands made by Muslims, to ignore their protests and to prosecute them severely for inciting any violence. They must align themselves with their new culture, as the majority of Muslims desire, rather than having any no-go zones, sharia compliant courts, or anything of that nature. If the government doesn't protect their citizens, especially the most vulnerable then, as is happening in Northern Europe, vigilante groups will form. That's when the situation will become much worse.

It's good to hear the Israeli perspective because many in western Europe are finally beginning to understand their situation.

But at the same time there's always more than one way to look at a problem. Turning this into an "us and them" sort of situation only drives more people into the hands of the jihadis.
 

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The second generation seem as bad or worse than the first.

The only way the democracies can survive, and their cultures preserved, is to ignore all religious demands made by Muslims, to ignore their protests and to prosecute them severely for inciting any violence. They must align themselves with their new culture, as the majority of Muslims desire, rather than having any no-go zones, sharia compliant courts, or anything of that nature. If the government doesn't protect their citizens, especially the most vulnerable then, as is happening in Northern Europe, vigilante groups will form. That's when the situation will become much worse.

It's good to hear the Israeli perspective because many in western Europe are finally beginning to understand their situation.
I agree, democracies need to protect itself even though it will include some undemocratic steps, I'm not sure Europe ready for this unless some big terror attack happend.
In addition I think many countries in Europe that criticise Israel about the way it fight against terror will follow her footsteps and ask for advise.
 

NO1

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But at the same time there's always more than one way to look at a problem. Turning this into an "us and them" sort of situation only drives more people into the hands of the jihadis.
Thats right, this is a very delicate situation and every step to solve it needs to be with serious consideration.
 

Tigerace117

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Thats right, this is a very delicate situation and every step to solve it needs to be with serious consideration.

That's what many people on both sides of the question don't get, you know? We can't ignore the problem, but we also can't recreate the Stasi.

No easy answers unfortunately
 

RetiredUSN

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I agree, democracies need to protect itself even though it will include some undemocratic steps, I'm not sure Europe ready for this unless some big terror attack happend.
In addition I think many countries in Europe that criticise Israel about the way it fight against terror will follow her footsteps and ask for advise.

I spent a lot of time in Haifa during the mid 1990's. I wish more Americans and Europeans understood what the youth of Israel have to deal with everyday while growing up.

I spent many a hour talking with young IDF soldiers in the outside Cafe's. I even met a few Americans who served in the IDF after waiting their time.
 

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In the most comprehensive study into the attitudes of British Muslims, Phillips said:

"Commenting on a ground-breaking survey, Trevor Phillips said we are “in danger of sacrificing a generation of young British people to values that are antithetical to the beliefs of most of us, including many Muslims”[...]

"He called for a new, tougher approach to integration and the abandonment of “the failed policy of multiculturalism"[..]

"One in 25 Muslims (four per cent) said they felt at least some sympathy with people who took part in suicide bombings, while a similar proportion said they had some sympathy with “people who commit terrorist actions as a form of political protest”.
A quarter – 25 per cent – said they could understand why British school girls could be attracted to become “jihadi brides” overseas.

Less than half (47 per cent) agreed that Muslims should do more to tackle the causes of extremism in the Muslim community.

52 per cent believed homosexuality should not be legal in Britain, 39 per cent agreed “wives should always obey their husbands”, and 31 per cent said it was acceptable for a man to have more than one wife."

British Muslims becoming a nation within a nation, Trevor Phillips warns

Yes, Muslims are different. No, we shouldn't accept that - Telegraph


Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds | UK news | The Guardian

Should we be surprised? No, not at all. You just need to visit some of these enclaves within England, and you'll soon realize, that these attitudes are totally in-keeping, with their segregated existence.

I see that you were really excited to see what you wanted to see in the article you referenced...and completely missed what was ALSO in that article:

But the survey also found that a large majority of British Muslims – 86 per cent - felt a strong sense of belonging to Britain, compared with a national average of 83 per cent, and that among Muslims 91 per cent felt a strong sense of belonging to their local area - again, a higher finding than the national average of 76 per cent.
 

gunner

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I see that you were really excited to see what you wanted to see in the article you referenced...and completely missed what was ALSO in that article:

But the survey also found that a large majority of British Muslims – 86 per cent - felt a strong sense of belonging to Britain, compared with a national average of 83 per cent, and that among Muslims 91 per cent felt a strong sense of belonging to their local area - again, a higher finding than the national average of 76 per cent.

I missed nothing. I chose to highlight the dangerous attitudes, because it is those same attitudes that are producing this: "Five people have been arrested on suspicion of terrorism offences as part of an investigation launched after the recent attacks in Paris and Brussels, West Midlands Police say"[...]

"Police say they worked with MI5 and Belgian and French authorities in an operation "to address any associated threat to the UK following the attacks in Europe".


UK terror arrests in probe 'linked to Europe attacks' - BBC News
 

gunner

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Another Muslim-bashing thread. Oh dear.

"What do British Muslims really think? That was the question asked in a Channel 4 survey, the conclusions of which have sparked yet another round of Muslim-bashing.

The study's lead, Trevor Phillips, declared that Britain’s Muslims are “becoming a nation within a nation.” Phillips’ conclusions about the hostility of British Muslims to mainstream society, their insularity and conservatism, have seized the headlines, amplifying Islamophobia and mistrust. Yet these claims are not supported by his own data. ..."

Trevor Phillips' research on British Muslims is dangerous and wrong. No wonder Islamophobia is on the rise | Voices | The Independent

Should we just pretend such attitudes do not exist?
 

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I missed nothing. I chose to highlight .................

Should we just pretend such attitudes do not exist?
and there we have it, as usual with you. You ignore Glen's pertinent caveat and even admit that by your highlighting you're not interested in anything other than what you choose to address and then you proceed to brush aside Manc's scrutiny on the survey being flawed by going totally strawman.

A Channel 4 survey, ferchrissake. Anyone acquainted with that rag of moving images will know what I mean.

You really expect any entry of yours to be taken seriously when it is presented in such dishonesty?
 
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Grant

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I see that you were really excited to see what you wanted to see in the article you referenced...and completely missed what was ALSO in that article:

But the survey also found that a large majority of British Muslims – 86 per cent - felt a strong sense of belonging to Britain, compared with a national average of 83 per cent, and that among Muslims 91 per cent felt a strong sense of belonging to their local area - again, a higher finding than the national average of 76 per cent.
It has been acknowledged everywhere that "Not all Muslims are terrorists". We all know that. It really is common knowledge.

The job is to find out who are the islamists and to prevent another generation from becoming terrorists. I'm one of those who believe a commitment to peace, harmony and a respect for others of a different race, sex, religion or color, transcends any religious beliefs. Of course that includes Islam. I have no interest in fact what their goofy religious beliefs might be so long as they can get along with their neighbors. That goes for any religious or political belief as well.
 

Grant

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and there we have it, as usual with you. You ignore Glen's pertinent caveat and even admit that by your highlighting you're not interested in anything other than what you choose to address and then you proceed to brush aside Manc's scrutiny on the survey being flawed by going totally strawman.

You really expect any entry of yours to be taken seriously when it is presented in such dishonesty?
Why not focus on the problem? Isn't that where we should focus??
 

Chagos

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Why not focus on the problem? Isn't that where we should focus??
I'm focussing on the habitually dishonest MO of the presenter.

Or any other of that ilk.

Without that finding address and solution (if at all possible) the Muslim issue, where one exists, can't begin to find sensible address.

And you'd be well advised to not fall into the same straw man habits that he does.
 

Glen Contrarian

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It has been acknowledged everywhere that "Not all Muslims are terrorists". We all know that. It really is common knowledge.

The job is to find out who are the islamists and to prevent another generation from becoming terrorists. I'm one of those who believe a commitment to peace, harmony and a respect for others of a different race, sex, religion or color, transcends any religious beliefs. Of course that includes Islam. I have no interest in fact what their goofy religious beliefs might be so long as they can get along with their neighbors. That goes for any religious or political belief as well.

Y'know, that's not too far from the "I can't be a racist because I've got a black friend" style of defense.
 

Grant

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I'm focussing on the habitually dishonest MO of the presenter. Or any other of that ilk. Without that finding address and solution (if at all possible) the Muslim issue, where one exists, can't begin to find sensible address. And you'd be well advised to not fall into the same straw man habits that he does.
What "Straw Man" are you referring to? In my time here I've always found Gunner to be a very honest poster, a straight shooter, even if there might have been disagreement.

Your advice is really unnecessary.
 

Glen Contrarian

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I missed nothing. I chose to highlight the dangerous attitudes, because it is those same attitudes that are producing this: "Five people have been arrested on suspicion of terrorism offences as part of an investigation launched after the recent attacks in Paris and Brussels, West Midlands Police say"[...]

"Police say they worked with MI5 and Belgian and French authorities in an operation "to address any associated threat to the UK following the attacks in Europe".


UK terror arrests in probe 'linked to Europe attacks' - BBC News

Oh, you might not have "missed" anything...but you certainly included only that which supported your opinion about Muslims...and neglected to include anything about Muslims being patriotic and connected to their communities.

Somebody once said that the two best ways to lie are to use the big lie...and to use the half truth. You gave facts...but you left out the facts that would have put the rest of your post in a wholly different context.
 
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