British Muslims becoming a nation within a nation, Trevor Phillips warns

[Grant]

Oh, you might not have "missed" anything...but you certainly included only that which supported your opinion about Muslims...and neglected to include anything about Muslims being patriotic and connected to their communities.

Somebody once said that the two best ways to lie are to use the big lie...and to use the half truth. You gave facts...but you left out the facts that would have put the rest of your post in a wholly different context.

You mean the fact that "not all Muslims are terrorists"?

I think that's been covered.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

You mean the fact that "not all Muslims are terrorists"?

I think that's been covered.

The phrase is wildly misleading. The use of the words, "not all Muslims are terrorists" strongly implies that MOST Muslims are terrorists (and please don't try the tiresome tactic of arguing otherwise)...whereas the overwhelming majority of Muslims are NOT terrorists.

 

[Chagos]

What "Straw Man" are you referring to? In my time here I've always found Gunner to be a very honest poster, a straight shooter, even if there might have been disagreement.

Well, I find as I see. You find whatever in your manner, that's fine.

I've clearly indicated the gunner strawman in a previous post and it should be obvious why you're seen as committing the same thing

Your advice is really unnecessary.

You can zilch it at your pleasure.

 

[Grant]

The phrase is wildly misleading. The use of the words, "not all Muslims are terrorists" strongly implies that MOST Muslims are terrorists (and please don't try the tiresome tactic of arguing otherwise)...whereas the overwhelming majority of Muslims are NOT terrorists.

Okay, "Most Muslims are not terrorists". Is that better?

 

[MorrisDay]

That's what many people on both sides of the question don't get, you know? We can't ignore the problem, but we also can't recreate the Stasi.

No easy answers unfortunately

Securing OUR border might be a good place to start.

 

[Chagos]

Securing OUR border might be a good place to start.

Yeah, but this is the Europe forum. :mrgreen:

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Okay, "Most Muslims are not terrorists". Is that better?

Uh-uh-uh...even that is somewhat misleading, since it can mean that only 51% are terrorists. Try "great majority" or "vast majority"...or better yet, use the actual numbers at hand, and you'll be much more accurate.

 

[coldjoint]

Okay, "Most Muslims are not terrorists". Is that better?

Too bad most support terror by doing nothing,0, to stop it. Or knowingly finance it. But the polls that show that are dismissed by the apologists who seem to command the narrative here.

 

[MorrisDay]

Yeah, but this is the Europe forum. :mrgreen:

Yeah, Ok Thanks. Same advice to the Germans.

 

[Chagos]

Yeah, Ok Thanks. Same advice to the Germans.

I was joshing you.

If things were really that strict one couldn't even mention that refugees to Europe come from outside of it (mostly).

 

[Tigerace117]

Securing OUR border might be a good place to start.

Which one? Despite all the talk about Mexico, the Canadian border is pretty lightly guarded

 

[MorrisDay]

Which one? Despite all the talk about Mexico, the Canadian border is pretty lightly guarded

I would start with whichever one is the most problematic.

 

[Tigerace117]

I would start with whichever one is the most problematic.

Are you willing to have border patrol use lethal force if necessary if those trying to cross illegally refuse to stop?

Building fortifications to guard either border would cost a ton of money. Not to mention the bad PR machine gun nests on the Rio Grande would get

 

[MorrisDay]

Are you willing to have border patrol use lethal force if necessary if those trying to cross illegally refuse to stop?

Building fortifications to guard either border would cost a ton of money. Not to mention the bad PR machine gun nests on the Rio Grande would get

Lethal force should always be a last resort. The U.S. has the resources to secure our borders, we just lack the political will.

 

[Grant]

Yeah, but this is the Europe forum. :mrgreen:

Right. Europe doesn't have borders anymore.

 

[Grant]

Uh-uh-uh...even that is somewhat misleading, since it can mean that only 51% are terrorists. Try "great majority" or "vast majority"...or better yet, use the actual numbers at hand, and you'll be much more accurate.

Would "Some Muslims are terrorists" suit you? Or "a few million Muslims in Europe are sympathetic to terrorists"? How do you want it worded?
Perhaps this can serve as a helpful guide. Pew Poll: 42% of Muslim Youth in France ALWAYS Support Suicide Bombing

 

[Grant]

Too bad most support terror by doing nothing,0, to stop it. Or knowingly finance it. But the polls that show that are dismissed by the apologists who seem to command the narrative here.

They may be waiting to decide which side will win. Also, speaking out might get them killed. Recall that Muslim in Glasgow who was killed recently for saying Happy Easter to his customers?

Muslims will protest, and kill, over a cartoon but would never do anything similar to bring some respect to this quite backward religion.

 

[VanceMack]

So...the rebuttal argument is that because they went into neighborhoods that have higher than normal muslim population centers and asked those Muslims the questions, that somehow nullifies the results?

They never refute the results. They never offer contrary findings. So...the typical kneejerk defense of all things Muslim is 'un -UH!!! Is not!!!'

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Would "Some Muslims are terrorists" suit you? Or "a few million Muslims in Europe are sympathetic to terrorists"? How do you want it worded?
Perhaps this can serve as a helpful guide. Pew Poll: 42% of Muslim Youth in France ALWAYS Support Suicide Bombing

Good grief, guy - do you EVER read your references all the way through, much less study them?

Look REAL close - it says

Ever justified - 42%
Often/Sometimes - 19%
Rarely - 23%
Never justified - 57%

So...if ya add all those up...lemme see here...carry the two...151%!!! One hundred percent of Muslims added up to 151% of the poll!

In other words, guy, you didn't take the time to understand what you were looking at. The 19% and 23% added up to that 42%...and that 19% was comprised of the COMBINATION of those who thought it was justified often or sometimes. 23% said rarely, and never were 57%

What's more, this is the absolute highest of any of the nations studied! Perhaps that has something to do with things like a one-time massacre of 300-odd Muslims in Paris a little over 50 years ago. Sure, to you that's a long time...but in cultures there, that's not so long ago - that's their parents or grandparents.

*drops mic*

 

[Chagos]

Right. Europe doesn't have borders anymore.

Bah, pay attention ferchrissake.:roll:

 

[Chagos]

Good grief, guy - do you EVER read your references all the way through, much less study them?

Look REAL close - it says

Ever justified - 42%
Often/Sometimes - 19%
Rarely - 23%
Never justified - 57%

So...if ya add all those up...lemme see here...carry the two...151%!!! One hundred percent of Muslims added up to 151% of the poll!

In other words, guy, you didn't take the time to understand what you were looking at. The 19% and 23% added up to that 42%...and that 19% was comprised of the COMBINATION of those who thought it was justified often or sometimes. 23% said rarely, and never were 57%

What's more, this is the absolute highest of any of the nations studied! Perhaps that has something to do with things like a one-time massacre of 300-odd Muslims in Paris a little over 50 years ago. Sure, to you that's a long time...but in cultures there, that's not so long ago - that's their parents or grandparents.

*drops mic*

But but but but..................it says so, right there in the title. Not Gateway's fault if PEW supplies figures that do not match the interpretation. :mrgreen:

This is the sort of stuff that always gets thrown here :roll:

 

[Grant]

Good grief, guy - do you EVER read your references all the way through, much less study them?

Look REAL close - it says

Ever justified - 42%
Often/Sometimes - 19%
Rarely - 23%
Never justified - 57%

So...if ya add all those up...lemme see here...carry the two...151%!!! One hundred percent of Muslims added up to 151% of the poll!

In other words, guy, you didn't take the time to understand what you were looking at. The 19% and 23% added up to that 42%...and that 19% was comprised of the COMBINATION of those who thought it was justified often or sometimes. 23% said rarely, and never were 57%

What's more, this is the absolute highest of any of the nations studied! Perhaps that has something to do with things like a one-time massacre of 300-odd Muslims in Paris a little over 50 years ago. Sure, to you that's a long time...but in cultures there, that's not so long ago - that's their parents or grandparents.

*drops mic*

Those numbers, as you point out, are askew. In fact 35% of French Muslims believe terrorism can rarely, often, or always be justified while 64% think it's never justified..That's two out of every three Muslims who think terrorism is never justified and 1.5 million who are more flexible. 470,000 think it is always justified.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism

 

[Grant]

But but but but..................it says so, right there in the title. Not Gateway's fault if PEW supplies figures that do not match the interpretation. :mrgreen:

This is the sort of stuff that always gets thrown here :roll:

They misread or erred somehow in those figures. I did not quote Pew directly.

 

[Grant]

Bah, pay attention ferchrissake.:roll:

Oh, they do have borders? And they're being carefully guarded?

 

[Chagos]

Those numbers, as you point out, are askew. In fact 35% of French Muslims believe terrorism can rarely, often, or always be justified............................

BS.

The category "always" is not even mentioned in the PEW survey that Gateway cites.

It's 16 pct for "often/sometimes" and 19 pct for "rarely"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism

This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.
The neutrality of this article is disputed. (January 2016)

Well, if wiki says so.