British cancelled African dreams, literally

[bomberfox]

Much of the continent, pre-colonial era, consisted of stone age tribes warring among themselves, often in a very brutal manner.

What would it be like if there had been no European empires? If Africa had been left strictly alone? I don't know. Would it still be warring stone age tribes? Perhaps, who can say. At least some of the continent now has modern medicine, technology, and a grasp of the notion of democracy. If Africa had been left alone, that might not have been the case.

I'm not saying "colonialism good" btw... I'm saying it resulted in some mixed outcomes, some good, some bad.

You could say much the same about Europe without the stone age part. A bunch of warring tribes, kingdoms, lordships, nations, etc who fought brutal wars over religion, territory, etc. almost as often as the tribal warlords did. The notion that Africa cannot come up with democracy on its own considering the history of the continent had varying governing bodies before the colonists arrived is well ignorant.

If the colonial powers had not carved out the continent between warring colonial empires, Africa would be a much different place.

Countries like Gana are just now experimenting with democracy now that the blood diamond trade has left.

Other countries like the Congo are bad now because their leaders are horrible, however in the context of King Leopold II’s unimaginably brutal “free state”, one can surmise where that was learned from.

When the colonists arrived however, they began the policy of divide and conquer which got Britain and many other empires slaves with the added bonus of pretending the imperialist powers had their hands clean.

The tutsi and the hutu clash i dont see european involvement having much to do with it but thankfully the Rwandan genocide has ended and they are trying out restorative justice.

 

[bomberfox]

And then the Europeans showed up with industrialized brutality and religious “justifications” for their atrocities.

As I already pointed out, millions of lives would have been saved in the Congo alone if the European colonists had been prevented from taking over.

“Notion of democracy”? The locals didn’t get to see any of that “democracy” under colonial administration. They were lucky if they had any sort of rights whatsoever. And since the West spent the better part of fifty years propping up tyrants like Mobutu so long as they professed hatred for communism, that makes that line particularly absurd.

Hell even most of Belgium found Leopold II to be a savage man. Im not sure how people can describe European colonialism as an overall civilizing force considering the colonial powers often fought each other in Africa.

 

[bomberfox]

Less dead Europeans. Less dead Americans. Perhaps less dead Africans.

No chocolate hands tributes to King Leopold II, no Boer wars where the original idea for the concentration camps came from.

 

[bomberfox]

FFS.

The world was a different place in the 1800s. Yes...Europeans were bad. So were Asians. So were Africans.

You know who are real assholes? Sharks.

Does learning from history trigger you?

 

[bomberfox]

A very sensible opinion.

In my experience of living in Africa for decades, the benefits of colonialism greatly outweigh the negatives.

Considering those colonial empires often brutally fought eachother for their piece of the pie and often extracted material and human resources to the point of draining the continent dry……. Doubt it.

 

[VanceMack]

Does learning from history trigger you?

Learning form history is FANTASTIC. Pathetic weasels mistaking history for hysteria is embarrassing to watch.

Here's a nice lesson history teaches us. Did you know that had you been born during the era of slavery you not only would have likely supported slavery but also very likely have been a slave owner? Did you know that had you been born 60-70 years ago you would almost certainly have viewed homosexuality as a mental illness? Did you know that if you had been born 25-35 years ago you would have probaby laughed your ass of at the notion that some people at some point in time would be so mentally inept that they would think it 'normal' to dress up like furry animals and engage in role play and wierd sex fantasies? Or that people had become so mentally and emotionally corrupted that they would think that men could be women and women could be men just because they 'feel' like it, or that some people would be actually stupid enough to make the claim that men can get pregnant and have abortions?

Yes...history IS a wonderful teacher.

 

[Ginza]

Considering those colonial empires often brutally fought eachother for their piece of the pie and often extracted material and human resources to the point of draining the continent dry……. Doubt it.

As did the locals.

Ever heard of the slave trade? It's a good thing that Europeans put a stop to it otherwise it would still be going on.

And why do you want Africans to have remain uncivilised, wearing animal skins and living in grass huts whilst dying in their twenties?

Seems cruel to me.

 

[Tigerace117]

As did the locals.

Ever heard of the slave trade? It's a good thing that Europeans put a stop to it otherwise it would still be going on.

And why do you want Africans to have remain uncivilised, wearing animal skins and living in grass huts whilst dying in their twenties?

Seems cruel to me.

The Europeans were the ones who drove the slave trade for centuries before belatedly realizing that slavery was bad after, and even then they kept the locals brutally oppressed.

Gee, dying in their twenties? You mean like those worked to death by European thugs like Leopold II and his Congo “Free State”? Claiming the genocidal colonists brought “civilization” is a laughably dumb.

 

[Ginza]

The Europeans were the ones who drove the slave trade for centuries before belatedly realizing that slavery was bad after, and even then they kept the locals brutally oppressed.

Gee, dying in their twenties? You mean like those worked to death by European thugs like Leopold II and his Congo “Free State”? Claiming the genocidal colonists brought “civilization” is a laughably dumb.

I'm still wondering if you can rise to the challenge and link me to just one of your 49 000 posts that has anything positive to say about white people or America?

Can you rise to the challenge?

 

[Tigerace117]

I'm still wondering if you can rise to the challenge and link me to just one of your 49 000 posts that has anything positive to say about white people or America?

Can you rise to the challenge?

I am still wondering if you will ever get tired of crying about what victims you think white people are and defending genocidal colonists.

 

[Ginza]

Gee, perhaps for the colonists.

For the locals?

Not even close.

"From 1974 through the mid-1990s, growth was negative, reaching negative 1.5 percent in 1990-4. As a consequence, hundreds of millions of African citizens have become poor: one half of the African continent lives below the poverty line. In sub-Saharan Africa, per capita GDP is now less than it was in 1974, having declined over 11 percent. In 1970, one in ten poor citizens in the world lived in Africa; by 2000, the number was closer to one in two. That trend translates into 360 million poor Africans in 2000, compared to 140 million in 1975."

The decline of Africa after colonisation is obvious to anyone who is not an anti-white troll.

The Economic Decline in Africa

www.nber.org

 

[Tigerace117]

"From 1974 through the mid-1990s, growth was negative, reaching negative 1.5 percent in 1990-4. As a consequence, hundreds of millions of African citizens have become poor: one half of the African continent lives below the poverty line. In sub-Saharan Africa, per capita GDP is now less than it was in 1974, having declined over 11 percent. In 1970, one in ten poor citizens in the world lived in Africa; by 2000, the number was closer to one in two. That trend translates into 360 million poor Africans in 2000, compared to 140 million in 1975."

The decline of Africa after colonisation is obvious to anyone who is not an anti-white troll.

The Economic Decline in Africa

www.nber.org

Yep, colonization wrecked those countries so badly that they struggled to stay afloat after they forced their oppressors to leave.

Gee, not to mention that the colonizers continued sponsoring vicious tyrants who only further wrecked the local economies.

 

[Ginza]

colonization wrecked those countries so badly

Yeah, who wants schools, universities, roads, railways, hospitals etc etc anyway?

And those nasty Europeans banned slavery and stopped cannibalism.....scandalous.

Those 360 million Africans who are poorer after colonisation actually enjoy being poor now don't they?

 

[Integrityrespec]

When the British colonized Africa in about 1870, they not only carted off resources such as gold, ivory, and salt, they also took away the dreams of tribal leaders. No, I don’t mean hopes and aspirations; I mean the dreams you have at night.

In the book Man and His Symbols (1964), page 37, psychoanalyst Carl Jung reported his experience with a tribe in east Africa. The tribesmen felt that the dreams of ordinary men meant nothing. “They thought that the only dreams that mattered were those of chiefs and medicine men; these, which concerned the welfare of the tribe, were highly appreciated.”

Alas, the chief and medicine man claimed they had ceased having meaningful dreams after the arrival of the British. “The district commissioner—the British official in charge of them—had taken over the functions of the ‘great dreams’ that had hitherto guided the tribe’s behavior.”

So the weak minded were ruined by actions of the British. Good thing the colonist in NA didn't pay attention to the British.

 

[Tigerace117]

Yeah, who wants schools, universities, roads, railways, hospitals etc etc anyway?

And those nasty Europeans banned slavery and stopped cannibalism.....scandalous.

Those 360 million Africans who are poorer after colonisation actually enjoy being poor now don't they?

Gee, working as little more than slave laborers to create said roads and railways and watching Europeans get access to all those hospitals and universities while they were kept “in their place” sure was helpful.....not.

Or are you under the delusion that the natives were anything more than second class citizens in their own countries under the boot of your heroes.

Gee, the Europeans sure didn’t care about either when there was a buck to be made, as shown by Leopold II’s actions in the Congo.

Those 360 million Africans sure are happy they are free from the tyranny people like you imposed on them.....as shown by the numerous wars of liberation they fought to kick your idols out of their countries.

 

[Ginza]

Gee, working as little more than slave laborers to create said roads and railways and watching Europeans get access to all those hospitals

Er, it was the colonials who outlawed slavery. Read up.

Many African leaders like Mandela, Mugabe, Khama, Kaunda were actually educated at African universities.....but live in ignorance if you prefer.

 

[Tigerace117]

Er, it was the colonials who outlawed slavery. Read up.

Many African leaders like Mandela, Mugabe, Khama, Kaunda were actually educated at African universities.....but live in ignorance if you prefer.

Err, the colonists were forced to end slavery by mandates handed down from upon high and were some of its most fanatical defenders. Learn some actual history, you won’t embarrass yourself so constantly.

Hate to break it to you but exceptions to the rule….do not change the facts. Mandela, for instance, was the only black African student at the University of the Witwatersrand when he went there.

Your ignorance is truly damning.

 

[Ginza]

the colonists were forced to end slavery by mandates handed down from upon high

And here's me thinking that in your country a war was fought to end slavery.

Mandela, for instance, was the only black African student at the University of the Witwatersrand when he went there

I hate to break it to you but that was during the apartheid era when universities were separated, as they were in the USA at one time.

Blacks had their own universities which NO whites were allowed to attend.

"He was sent to the best schools available and began studying a BA at Fort Hare University."

"After he was expelled from Fort Hare, he completed his BA through Unisa."

Learners' biography – Nelson Mandela Foundation

We are a non-profit organisation focused on dialogue and advocacy, and memory and legacy work, founded by Nelson Mandela in 1999.

www.nelsonmandela.org

Er, who built those schools, the University of South Africa and Fort Hare University?

Those whites that you hate so much perhaps?

 

[Tigerace117]

And here's me thinking that in your country a war was fought to end slavery.



I hate to break it to you but that was during the apartheid era when universities were separated, as they were in the USA at one time.

Blacks had their own universities which NO whites were allowed to attend.

"He was sent to the best schools available and began studying a BA at Fort Hare University."

"After he was expelled from Fort Hare, he completed his BA through Unisa."

Learners' biography – Nelson Mandela Foundation

We are a non-profit organisation focused on dialogue and advocacy, and memory and legacy work, founded by Nelson Mandela in 1999.

www.nelsonmandela.org

Er, who built those schools, the University of South Africa and Fort Hare University?

Those whites that you hate so much perhaps?

Gee bud, if the colonists had any hope of winning they certainly would have tried it. But they didn’t…. And they knew it. So, kicking and screaming, they were forced to give up slavery.

That’s like arguing that African Americans and white southerners had the same educational opportunities under Jim Crow. Hate to break it to you but said schools were NOT given access to the same kind of resources and support provided to “white” schools.

Oh look, more tearful sobbing because you hate having to face the facts about how vile your idols were.

 

[Ginza]

and watching Europeans get access to all those hospitals

Funny you should mention that. In the bad old days of apartheid, my late mother was asked to run the Charles James Hospital in South Africa which was funded by a "white" charity called SANTA. (The South African National Tuberculosis Association). She did so for several years. Every year, we held fund raisers to buy school books etc for the children of patients. After which, we would distribute the books, uniforms etc in rural areas in Kwa-Zulu.

The hospital only had black patients.

But continue your lies and hate speech about whites if it somehow rids you of your pent up hatred.

 

[Tigerace117]

Funny you should mention that. In the bad old days of apartheid, my late mother was actually requested to run the Charles James Hospital in South Africa which was funded by a "white" charity called SANTA. (The South African National Tuberculosis Association). She did so for several years. Every year, we held fund raisers to buy school books etc for the children of patients. After which, we would distribute the books, uniforms etc in rural areas in Kwa-Zulu.

The hospital only had black patients.

But continue your lies and hate speech about whites if it somehow rids you of your pent up hatred.

Oh cool, a supposedly true personal anecdote, and even MORE tearful sobbing about how triggered having to face the facts about your heroes makes you feel.

 

[Ginza]

I realise now why people say you shouldn't feed trolls!

 

[Ginza]

In 1963, Kenya kicked Brit's ass and won their independence in battle.

Er, so this source got it wrong? :

"Defeating Mau Mau, Creating Kenya: Counterinsurgency, Civil War, and Decolonization."

"The capture of rebel leader Field Marshal Dedan Kimathi signalled the defeat of the Mau Mau"

"Much of the struggle tore through the African communities themselves, an internecine war waged between rebels and so-called 'loyalists' – Africans who took the side of the government and opposed Mau Mau."

 

[Ginza]

Africa was, and is, a hot mess. It was a hot mess when the Brits got there, it was a hot mess when they left, it remains a hot mess.

Unfortunately, that is true.

It's a shit hole. I spent decades there. It's worse now than when my family went there.

But despite their problems, most Africans are really friendly, happy people.

 

[Juin]

Africa was, and is, a hot mess. It was a hot mess when the Brits got there, it was a hot mess when they left, it remains a hot mess.

In general.

Maybe Africa should be renamed Ukrainia. It has a Holodomor and a Holocaust under its belt. two messy affairs.