Billionaires have avoided taxation by paying themselves very low salaries while amassing fortunes

[bave]

The SC would decide constitutionality. Property tax is a form of wealth tax. I don't think the current court would pass a wealth tax. However, a wealth tax would take so long as to not come until a new court.

The SC has *already* and *repeatedly* decided that any wealth tax is unconstitutional. Moreover, look at nations that have tried wealth taxes. They have all failed in their implementation and reversed them.

All while ignoring the fact that the US has the most progressive tax code on the planet. It's never enough for parasites.

 

[KLATTU]

There has always been a whole industry devoted to minimizing tax liability to the Govt.
that's because people everywhere want to pay the least amount of taxes possible, but they want somebody ELSE to pay more.(It's only 'fair' that THEY pay more, not me)
Whatever tricks rich people use to put off paying taxes ( small salaries, loans) they eventually need to spend money or pay off those loans . Then they have to draw down from their investments and those amounts get taxed.( Elon Musk famously just paid the highest tax bill ever).

As I've brilliantly and famously stated many times- if Democrats want to ' tax the rich', just do it and stop bloviating . They have controlled the Government since 2020 and haven't done jack. Soon it looks like they will lose control and thus the opportunity.

 

[Bear5131]

How do billionaires avoid taxes?


Billionaires have avoided taxation by paying themselves very low salaries while amassing fortunes in stocks and other assets. They then borrow off those assets to finance their lifestyles, rather than selling the assets and paying capital gains taxes.

Oct 30, 2021

So, that's why the lawyers and accountants get paid the big bucks

Anyone would exploit any loop hole possible to avoid paying taxes

BTW the IRS gladly accepts donations please feel free to donate to help rich politicians get richer

 

[ttwtt78640]

Income affects wealth.

So does credit (borrowing), but that is not taxable income.

Since the existence of FIT, no one has treated them so scary, as if the anti-Christ, as Rep/cons. Especially since Reagan.

OK, but the power to change tax rates is not limited to the power to raise them.

I've mentioned such success in a number or posts, either specifically or in general. And they keep trying.

So what? Elections have consequences.

 

[bluesmoke]

The SC has *already* and *repeatedly* decided that any wealth tax is unconstitutional. Moreover, look at nations that have tried wealth taxes. They have all failed in their implementation and reversed them.

All while ignoring the fact that the US has the most progressive tax code on the planet. It's never enough for parasites.

I doubt that a literal wealth tax would pass constitutional muster. I'm just saying that it would be a better system. We can still change existing tax code to be more fair.

South Africa has the world's most progressive tax system. South Africa is also the world's most unequal country by measure of wealth.

The US system is only progressive until the point it stops progressing in step with income.

 

[Geoist]

How do billionaires avoid taxes?


Billionaires have avoided taxation by paying themselves very low salaries while amassing fortunes in stocks and other assets. They then borrow off those assets to finance their lifestyles, rather than selling the assets and paying capital gains taxes.

Oct 30, 2021

This is why the income tax is overrated amongst liberals. There are more effective ways of taxing the rich.

 

[bave]

I doubt that a literal wealth tax would pass constitutional muster. I'm just saying that it would be a better system. We can still change existing tax code to be more fair.

South Africa has the world's most progressive tax system. South Africa is also the world's most unequal country by measure of wealth.

The US system is only progressive until the point it stops progressing in step with income.

This is a lie. The US has the most progressive tax code on the planet.

 

[bluesmoke]

So does credit (borrowing), but that is not taxable income.



OK, but the power to change tax rates is not limited to the power to raise them.



So what? Elections have consequences.

You've no proof that borrowed money is considered income.

Yes. If you pick chocolate, you still could've picked strawberry or vanilla and change to any flavor later. Kind of cone. Brilliant statement of yours.

And elections can be consequences. I think you're on a ttwtt run here.

 

[bluesmoke]

This is a lie. The US has the most progressive tax code on the planet.

Calling out a lie that you can't prove makes you the one that's lying.

 

[bave]

Calling out a lie that you can't prove makes you the one that's lying.

I have shown you the data and articles several times. You are refusing to accept the truth and continue to blatantly lie.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/04/05/americas-taxes-are-the-most-progressive-in-the-world-its-government-is-among-the-least/

 

[bluesmoke]

I have shown you the data and articles several times. You are refusing to accept the truth and continue to blatantly lie.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/04/05/americas-taxes-are-the-most-progressive-in-the-world-its-government-is-among-the-least/

"South Africa has the world's most progressive tax system, according to a new report."

south africa the world's most progessive tax - Search

www.bing.com

My point is that a "progressive" tax system does not necessarily cause more equal wealth. Especially, as is with the US, the progress only goes so far and not far enough, the US being one of the most unequal in wealth of the OECD countries. There are many loopholes in a "progressive" tax system.

Note that my article supporting South Africa as being the most progressive is 4 yrs more recent than yours and comes from the same source, WaPo.

You can't pick out a single quote of mine and prove it a lie. Go ahead and try. You can't even back up your own word. Yet you continue to say I'm lying. Hence, you are the one lying.

 

[Neomalthusian]

How do billionaires avoid taxes?


Billionaires have avoided taxation by paying themselves very low salaries while amassing fortunes in stocks and other assets. They then borrow off those assets to finance their lifestyles, rather than selling the assets and paying capital gains taxes.

Income generally has to be recognized as income at some point, including equity compensation. There are ways to defer recognizing it but it generally has to be recognized at some point. And borrowing against one's other assets still requires coming up with the funds later to pay off the principal loan. Where will those funds come from, and how will that not require recognizing some income?

I'm not saying all the rules are fair and good, but they're not necessarily quite as unfair and bad as some people seem to want to make it sound.

 

[Jack2aTee]

It was, is and remains ridiculous to tax (long term) capital gain (LTCG) income at a special (generally lower) rate than ‘earned’ income.

I can see the logic (fairness?) of indexing (adjusting?) any LTCG amounts for CPI inflation, but I have not been able to come up with method of doing so which would not be rather cumbersome to implement.

Of course, that does not mean that such indexing (adjusting?) could not be done, ideally by the brokerage firm handling (and reporting?) the sale(s), but I am ignorant as to the details of buying, selling, trading and/or reporting of securities transactions.

All the millions of people who are selling 2 bedroom 1 bath shacks for a million+ dollars that they bought for $15,000 40 years ago are paying a huge capital gain tax on the proceeds and there's no way to write that off. That adds up to quite a hefty amount so the capital gains tax is a good thing at that level.

 

[ttwtt78640]

All the millions of people who are selling 2 bedroom 1 bath shacks for a million+ dollars that they bought for $15,000 40 years ago are paying a huge capital gain tax on the proceeds and there's no way to write that off. That adds up to quite a hefty amount so the capital gains tax is a good thing at that level.

That is simply taxing inflation. After all, the asset was bought for its fair market value and then (40 years) later sold for its fair market value. It’s not as if the seller could then buy hundreds of 2 BR, 1 BA shacks from the proceeds of the single 2BR, 1 BA shack they just sold.

 

[bave]

"South Africa has the world's most progressive tax system, according to a new report."

south africa the world's most progessive tax - Search

www.bing.com

My point is that a "progressive" tax system does not necessarily cause more equal wealth. Especially, as is with the US, the progress only goes so far and not far enough, the US being one of the most unequal in wealth of the OECD countries. There are many loopholes in a "progressive" tax system.

Note that my article supporting South Africa as being the most progressive is 4 yrs more recent than yours and comes from the same source, WaPo.

You can't pick out a single quote of mine and prove it a lie. Go ahead and try. You can't even back up your own word. Yet you continue to say I'm lying. Hence, you are the one lying.

First off, I have no idea about South Africa and you haven't provided a real source to substantiate that. Further, South Africa is a third world country spiraling into the toilet. Not really comparable to the US for a host of reasons.

Second, inequality shouldn't be the metric, overall prosperity should be. The US has a higher inequality, despite the most progressive tax code of any major developed nation, but it also has the highest household median income amongst major developed nations as well. Would you rather try and skin the rich some more even if it made the average Joe poorer?

Lastly, your comment about loopholes is illustates how little you understand the topic. Tax system comparisons are done on effectively taxes, not statutory, thus the idea that loopholes have anything to do with it is idiotic.

 

[Carjosse]

First off, I have no idea about South Africa and you haven't provided a real source to substantiate that. Further, South Africa is a third world country spiraling into the toilet. Not really comparable to the US for a host of reasons.

Second, inequality shouldn't be the metric, overall prosperity should be. The US has a higher inequality, despite the most progressive tax code of any major developed nation, but it also has the highest household median income amongst major developed nations as well. Would you rather try and skin the rich some more even if it made the average Joe poorer?

Wealth and incl.d

 

[Jack2aTee]

That is simply taxing inflation. After all, the asset was bought for its fair market value and then (40 years) later sold for its fair market value. It’s not as if the seller could then buy hundreds of 2 BR, 1 BA shacks from the proceeds of the single 2BR, 1 BA shack they just sold.

We're already 30 trillion in the hole in this frickin' country. The government needs every g*ddamed penny it can lay its hands on to keep us afloat. Most of these people are selling in high value areas and moving to low value areas where they can buy a new home for half the cost. Don't take away one of the last sources of income we have. I used to never worry about the national debt because I read that the total of ALL assets in America was 250 trillion, when I thought I was reading that's the assets of the Federal government. I now learn that the Fed's total assets portfolio is worth only 3 Trillion! Three trillion in assets to 30 trillion in liabilities! We're in big BIG trouble, friend.

 

[bave]

We're already 30 trillion in the hole in this frickin' country. The government needs every g*ddamed penny it can lay its hands on to keep us afloat. Most of these people are selling in high value areas and moving to low value areas where they can buy a new home for half the cost. Don't take away one of the last sources of income we have. I used to never worry about the national debt because I read that the total of ALL assets in America was 250 trillion, when I thought I was reading that's the assets of the Federal government. I now learn that the Fed's total assets portfolio is worth only 3 Trillion! Three trillion in assets to 30 trillion in liabilities! We're in big BIG trouble, friend.

That's some really bad math bud

 

[ttwtt78640]

We're already 30 trillion in the hole in this frickin' country. The government needs every g*ddamed penny it can lay its hands on to keep us afloat. Most of these people are selling in high value areas and moving to low value areas where they can buy a new home for half the cost. Don't take away one of the last sources of income we have. I used to never worry about the national debt because I read that the total of ALL assets in America was 250 trillion, when I thought I was reading that's the assets of the Federal government. I now learn that the Fed's total assets portfolio is worth only 3 Trillion! Three trillion in assets to 30 trillion in liabilities! We're in big BIG trouble, friend.

OK, but a more logical treatment of capital gains income would be to index it for CPI inflation and then tax it at the (appropriate) progressive bracket rates.

 

[PirateMk1]

I am 101% ignorant about income taxes.

But the Dems do seem right when they call for tax reform.

It's fine to be rich -- even super rich -- but with massive wealth, surely there is a social responsibility that comes along with it.

For example, when I see TV commercials begging ordinary people to donate to worthy causes (for example, medical procedures to help deformed children in developing nations), I immediately think: Some billionaires in many countries could instantly pick up the tab without any sweat. Chump change for them.

Why don't they?

Most of those "Charities" are either grifters or tax write offs that used to hide illicit exchanges.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

How do billionaires avoid taxes?

Owning nothing while controlling everything.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Owning nothing while controlling everything.

Having congress critters supply ‘loopholes’ in the FIT code helps a great deal. It should not require about 80K pages of FIT law to “tax income from all sources”. Most that that nonsense is to alter the tax liability on an identical amount of gross income based on how and/or upon who that income was later spent.

 

[Jack2aTee]

OK, but a more logical treatment of capital gains income would be to index it for CPI inflation and then tax it at the (appropriate) progressive bracket rates.

Ok, fine as long as the government is collecting something from the sales. Unless i read the other poster wrong my impression was that he wanted to eliminate the capital gains tax entirely. The problems with Bezos borrowing from his vast wealth to avoid taxes is not found in his behavior, it's found in the g*oddamned tax code. The whole thing should be overhauled to make the rich pay their fair share. Even Buffet says that. I don't blame Bezos for his tax avoidance, I blame the idiots that write such stupid tax codes.

 

[trouble13]

How do billionaires avoid taxes?


Billionaires have avoided taxation by paying themselves very low salaries while amassing fortunes in stocks and other assets. They then borrow off those assets to finance their lifestyles, rather than selling the assets and paying capital gains taxes.

Oct 30, 2021

If that bothers you support replacing our income tax system with a consumption tax.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Ok, fine as long as the government is collecting something from the sales. Unless i read the other poster wrong my impression was that he wanted to eliminate the capital gains tax entirely. The problems with Bezos borrowing from his vast wealth to avoid taxes is not found in his behavior, it's found in the g*oddamned tax code. The whole thing should be overhauled to make the rich pay their fair share. Even Buffet says that. I don't blame Bezos for his tax avoidance, I blame the idiots that write such stupid tax codes.

Borrowed money and unrealized gains are not income. Should you be taxed on your mortgage loan amount and your home’s annual appreciation?