Billionaires have avoided taxation by paying themselves very low salaries while amassing fortunes

[Craig234]

Yeah! Give that money to me instead! Why? Because I WANT it dammit.

LOL at the delusional lies the right tells. "Earned." They "earned" it as much as in a system designed to siphon wealth as taxing it "earns" it in a system designed to tax it. Saying someone who owns a company "earns" keeping all the wealth it creates is about as valid as saying the politicians "earn" keeping it like they do in North Korea or sort of in China. Hey, let's end all taxes on Bezos and give him even more! He earned it!

 

[ttwtt78640]

Competition mitigates that.

In 1.5 years, the average pay for entry level work...the McJobs...has jumped up an average of now OVER 2 dollars per hour. And climbing. From 11-12 per hour, to 14.50+. As a percent, that far exceeds inflation. The lowest paid in this country are undisputably better off, even with high inflation. Those caught in the middle are the ones getting hit, but that's because their wages haven't jumped. Yet. Cuz, you know...replacement cost.

Companies that pay ABOVE replacement cost, who have adopted a more value added payscale, are doing swimmingly in this market. The sacrifice they make to do that? Their highest paid only make 100-200 times more than their lowest paid workers, as opposed to, say, 500, 600, 700 times more. It's one less yacht that needs bridges to be removed per year.

OK, but let’s look at McReality concerning those McJobs. BTW, using your own numbers, and generously assuming that most McJobs are full-time (40 hours/week), let’s see what happens. The FTE of $14.50/hour is about $30K/year and multiplying that by 600 gives us $18M/year.

McDonald's paid its CEO almost 2,000 times as much as the average worker in 2019, with executive compensation topping $18 million

McDonald's CEO compensation in 2019 was 1,939 times what the median worker at the fast-food giant made in the same year.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[ttwtt78640]

LOL at the delusional lies the right tells. "Earned." They "earned" it as much as in a system designed to siphon wealth as taxing it "earns" it in a system designed to tax it. Saying someone who owns a company "earns" keeping all the wealth it creates is about as valid as saying the politicians "earn" keeping it like they do in North Korea or sort of in China. Hey, let's end all taxes on Bezos and give him even more! He earned it!

OK, if a homeowner had the value of their $300K (on paper) house increase by 5% last year did they “earn” an extra $15K that year?

Should they be able to keep that wealth?

 

[KevinKohler]

Yes, none of us ever use money to turn circumstances to our advantage. It's only those evil "they."

A free people are not free when wealth and power are allowed to corrupt the rule of law.

 

[KevinKohler]

OK, but let’s look at McReality concerning those McJobs. BTW, using your own numbers, and generously assuming that most McJobs are full-time (40 hours/week), let’s see what happens. The FTE of $14.50/hour is about $30K/year and multiplying that by 600 gives us $18M/year.

McDonald's paid its CEO almost 2,000 times as much as the average worker in 2019, with executive compensation topping $18 million

McDonald's CEO compensation in 2019 was 1,939 times what the median worker at the fast-food giant made in the same year.

www.businessinsider.com

Uh...correct?

So you agree with me.

 

[HangLow]

It won’t. That is trickle down nonsense.
Nope. It will simply mean that people who make a shit ton of money from dividends and stock trades
will pay a rate that is similar to some Shlub who wakes up every day to make the widgets.

​

 

[HangLow]

A free people are not free when wealth and power are allowed to corrupt the rule of law.

​

 

[bluesmoke]

Aside from being unconstitutional how does your wealth tax deal with decreases in wealth? Refunds?

The SC would decide constitutionality. Property tax is a form of wealth tax. I don't think the current court would pass a wealth tax. However, a wealth tax would take so long as to not come until a new court.

Decreases in wealth would result in a lower tax that yr.

Like I said, apple pie and blue sky. Or is it blue sky and apple pie. Anyway, there's much with the tax code that can be actually done to not so much favor the rich and large corps while working on a wealth tax plan.

 

[bluesmoke]

View attachment 67384801​

It's all been said before.

 

[bluesmoke]

View attachment 67384800​

I'd like to know what NatMorton thinks about this.

 

[HangLow]

I'd like to know what NatMorton thinks about this.

what do you think about it... at the average man level...

 

[bluesmoke]

Which states claim to have a “wealth tax”?

Which states currently tax either unrealized capital gains on liquid assets or on changes in a household’s net worth?

Many states have property taxes (which is not the topic of this thread), yet most limit them to the assessed value of real estate owned within that state.

Property tax is a form of wealth tax, though some states have a cap in various ways. It does not have to be a Fed level tax.

What is the relevance of your next question? I made no statement to bring such a question into the discussion.

Prop tax is relevant to the topic of this thread because it is a form of wealth tax which is a method of better balancing the unfair advantage of "Billionaires have avoided taxation by paying themselves very low salaries while amassing fortunes", which happens to be the topic of this thread. Do you agree it relevant?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Property tax is a form of wealth tax, though some states have a cap in various ways. It does not have to be a Fed level tax.

What is the relevance of your next question? I made no statement to bring such a question into the discussion.

Taxing unrealized gains on liquid assets is what has been proposed.

Prop tax is relevant to the topic of this thread because it is a form of wealth tax which is a method of better balancing the unfair advantage of "Billionaires have avoided taxation by paying themselves very low salaries while amassing fortunes", which happens to be the topic of this thread. Do you agree it relevant?

The federal government has no power to implement a property (or wealth) tax (without that new direct federal tax being apportioned among the several states).

 

[Perotista]

How do billionaires avoid taxes?


Billionaires have avoided taxation by paying themselves very low salaries while amassing fortunes in stocks and other assets. They then borrow off those assets to finance their lifestyles, rather than selling the assets and paying capital gains taxes.

Oct 30, 2021

You just underscored one of the main problems with everyone out there that just pays attention to the tax rates and not all the loopholes in the tax code that congress has placed in them. I never understood the rejoice given when the top tax rate is raised. It means nothing as you pointed out just one of the ways these super rich get around avoiding paying anything near the top rate. They usually fall on average between 10-15% actual tax rates that they pay on their income. Many CEO’s salary is one dollar a year or month. But they get all the rest in stocks and bonds.

You want to get the rich to pay their fair share, eliminate all the loopholes and forget the tax rate. You could raise the top rate to 95% and these super rich still wouldn’t be paying more than they do now. That is in income.

 

[bluesmoke]

what do you think about it... at the average man level...

When the avg worker is doing well, the family has cookies to eat. Not so well, not so many cookies. During any time period, the rich accumulate enough cookies to sell to the average American to profit from. In any event, all the avg American gets are cookies. Shut up and eat your mush.

Vote Republican.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The SC would decide constitutionality. Property tax is a form of wealth tax. I don't think the current court would pass a wealth tax. However, a wealth tax would take so long as to not come until a new court.

Decreases in wealth would result in a lower tax that yr.

Like I said, apple pie and blue sky. Or is it blue sky and apple pie. Anyway, there's much with the tax code that can be actually done to not so much favor the rich and large corps while working on a wealth tax plan.

The (your?) idea that the SCOTUS (given enough left leaning justices) could use the 16A to justify a direct (non-apportioned) federal wealth tax is scary.

 

[aociswundumho]

They then borrow off those assets to finance their lifestyles, rather than selling the assets and paying capital gains taxes.

No different from a homeowner taking out a home equity loan and spending the money on whatever he wants without having to pay capital gains taxes.

 

[Hypothetical]

I am 101% ignorant about income taxes.

But the Dems do seem right when they call for tax reform.

It's fine to be rich -- even super rich -- but with massive wealth, surely there is a social responsibility that comes along with it.

For example, when I see TV commercials begging ordinary people to donate to worthy causes (for example, medical procedures to help deformed children in developing nations), I immediately think: Some billionaires in many countries could instantly pick up the tab without any sweat. Chump change for them.

Why don't they?

agreed.

but I don't even think having them pay their taxes really goes far enough.

In one of my more liberal opinions, perhaps the farthest liberal , I really think non executive employees of a corporation should be payed bonuses or addendum pay based on the profit or earnings of a business in some way. why should only CEO's get golden parachutes when it is typically the common workers who do things right to make profit for businesses. call it a "basic Income" tax.

 

[ttwtt78640]

No different from a homeowner taking out a home equity loan and spending the money on whatever he wants without having to pay capital gains taxes.

What folks seem to ignore is that loans must be repaid, which requires an income source to do so. The idea that “the rich” have some kind of perpetual borrowing ability, taking out loans and repaying those loans with other (larger) loans, seems far fetched to me.

 

[bluesmoke]

Taxing unrealized gains on liquid assets is what has been proposed.



The federal government has no power to implement a property (or wealth) tax (without that new direct federal tax being apportioned among the several states).

So, which states currently tax either unrealized capital gains on liquid assets or on changes in a household’s net worth? What's your point?

I doubt the current SC would allow such fed taxation without amendment to the Constitution. But the states can. There's also increasing upper income tax rates, incl on upper revenues in a progressive tax on corps, and increasing cap gains tax.

 

[bluesmoke]

The (your?) idea that the SCOTUS (given enough left leaning justices) could use the 16A to justify a direct (non-apportioned) federal wealth tax is scary.

Like an income tax? Rep/cons treat that as scary. Ever trying to decrease taxes affecting the rich and large corps.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Like an income tax?

Wealth is not income.

Rep/cons treat that as scary.

Nope, income taxes exist and have for quite some time.

Ever trying to decrease taxes affecting the rich and large corps.

Not only trying, they succeeded in doing so.

 

[Razoo]

As a refresher regarding topic of discussion :

How do billionaires avoid taxes?

Billionaires have avoided taxation by paying themselves very low salaries while amassing fortunes in stocks and other assets. They then borrow off those assets to finance their lifestyles, rather than selling the assets and paying capital gains taxes.

===============

In an era of profound inequality, few issues illustrate such stark differences in economic priorities as capital gains taxes. Capital gains accrue overwhelmingly to the wealthy and receive favorable tax treatment in several ways.

Cutting capital gains taxes would confer another windfall on the wealthy, exacerbate the tax preference for income from wealth over income from work, increase inequality, and drain revenue.

By contrast, raising capital gains taxes and closing loopholes would make the wealthy pay more of their fair share, lessen tax code disparities, reduce inequality, and raise substantial revenue for the country.

Capital gains and dividends accrue overwhelmingly to the wealthy and are taxed at preferential rates​

A capital gain is the profit from selling an asset such as a stock or other financial instrument, an interest in a business, or real estate. The gains from the sale of such assets held more than one year are considered long-term gains and taxed at special low rates.

While ordinary income such as wages and salaries is taxed at rates ranging from 0 percent for low levels of income to 37 percent for the highest levels of income, long-term capital gains are taxed at 0 percent, 15 percent, and 20 percent.

Most corporate dividends that are paid to shareholders are also taxed at these favorable rates. There is also a 3.8 percent Medicare tax on high-income taxpayers’ net investment income, including capital gains and dividends.

The 3.8 percent net investment income tax (NIIT) was enacted in companion legislation to the Affordable Care Act in 2010 and essentially parallels the Medicare tax on wages.1

Capital Gains Tax Preference Should Be Ended, Not Expanded​

https://www.americanprogress.org › article › capital-gai...
Sep 28, 2020 — Congress should close—not expand—capital gains loopholes and tax income from wealth the same as income from work.

 

[Razoo]

Have no fear preferential tax deductions aka loopholes may never be transparent so as to hide.

 

[bluesmoke]

Wealth is not income.



Nope, income taxes exist and have for quite some time.



Not only trying, they succeeded in doing so.

Income affects wealth.

Since the existence of FIT, no one has treated them so scary, as if the anti-Christ, as Rep/cons. Especially since Reagan.

I've mentioned such success in a number or posts, either specifically or in general. And they keep trying.